Mickey Vandeverre Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 NO...I did not participate in a "slugfest." "emotional baggage" is going a bit too far. seems like matter of fact sentences to me. I have left that baiting alone for almost a year. That method did not work. I'm calling it out now....and if my posts keep getting deleted I do not care. as far as making a "Federal Case"....YOU were the one who asked for clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 <sigh> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 This thread is a perfect example of what is going on with the moderation process. Everything concerning moderation is still up in the air. Many people are pretty confused, and/or they have left the forum. THIS IS NOT WHAT WE WANT. @Lexie we do NOT want people leaving the forum because they do not understand. Look at Ima's thread - we want people coming back. "They" spoke very LOUD in that thread. Mickey is speaking LOUD in this thread. It is about time. When does someone begin to hear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I'm sorry I have to give personal example. I cannot speak for others. They have to supply their own example (at risk) of how the moderation process does not seem be handled fairly. I can only come up with one reason why my first post in this thread was removed.....and that would be that it questioned the moderation process or found fault with it. It really did not do that....it spelled out specifically what NOT to do. the reason I gave for it being removed was sarcasm...meaning that we are supposed to be left in dark. If that post was removed....why not the OP removed....it questioned process far more than I did. If a moderator removes a post....they have to think in their head "why" they are removing it....simply press a button that attaches that reason to notification....and we can see clearly. possibly. I am not getting notifications of removals at all. To blatantly pick and choose "who" you cater to or give preferential treatment to, in this forum....even within ONE thread no less....is just asking for difficulties. When I see this go on in forum....I translate it to what goes on inworld, and why I have had such difficulty with customer service. Same philosophy. Some have voices. Some get heard. Some get taken care of. Some do not. I don't have to put up with this level of customer care in forum, can simply say to hell with it...but this is a base...and do have to put up with it inworld....and it ain't workin'. Don't really see this forum workin' too great either. A dozen people ruling the roost and controlling discussion, with several other dozen saying WTF every other day..... isn't all that great of a marketing splash. IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 Storm Clarence wrote: This thread is a perfect example of what is going on with the moderation process. Everything concerning moderation is still up in the air. Many people are pretty confused, and/or they have left the forum. THIS IS NOT WHAT WE WANT. @Lexie we do NOT want people leaving the forum because they do not understand. Look at Ima's thread - we want people coming back. "They" spoke very LOUD in that thread. Mickey is speaking LOUD in this thread. It is about time. When does someone begin to hear? If people are confused, they might want to review the guidelines, which I think are pretty clear to most of us. I doubt anyone is going to agree with mod decisions 100% of the time, maybe not even 90%. The job is difficult and I doubt much fun -- but it is a valuable service and on the whole the mods have demonstrated that their goal is to serve the community as fairly and competently as they can. Here are some excerpts from the guidelines that may clarify why some posts get pulled -- but note the bottom part where they make clear that ultimately the mods may use their discretion. That's how this game is played, period. If someone wants to follow his own rules, he can probably expect to get his posts yanked. Also, as they say below, they can't read every post. If you see a post that you think violates guidelines, report it. The mods may or may not agree, but at least they will see it. Interpersonal Disputes or Personal Negative Commentary: If you have a personal disagreement, do not post about it on the Second Life community pages. Residents who have personal differences have other channels of communication available to them — private messaging in the forums, IM within Second Life, or chatting within Second Life.No Flaming: "Flames" are hostile or disruptive posts, or messages intended to incite an angry response. Spirited discussion and constructive disagreement are welcome, but name-calling and airing of grievances are not appropriate in our discussion areas. We will also not tolerate any post that encourages others to violate any policy of Linden Lab Abuse of Moderation or Moderators: Please honor our moderation process and the decisions that come out of it; they are being made in order to provide you with a productive environment for conversations about Second Life. We prohibit abuse of our moderation process, including the following:Posts that discuss or re-post material that has been removed or locked by a moderator Posts questioning a moderator’s decision Posts that discuss the status of any Resident account (e.g., on hold, suspended, etc.) Frivolous or malicious use of the abuse report feature Report inappropriate content for moderator review Moderating a discussion site is a daunting task; our forums alone see in excess of 10,000 posts per week. You can help by reporting abuse when you spot it. If you see a post you feel violates the Community Participation Guidelines, or our Terms of Service, then please click the Report Inappropriate Content link that appears in each post, and let us know why you feel the post is inappropriate. We moderate at our discretion We evaluate posts on a case-by-case basis and take into account the severity of the conduct and any history of past violations. Although we will make reasonable efforts to take into consideration the context and general sentiment of the blog or forum discussions, the actions taken (or not taken) by Linden Lab and our moderators are at our sole discretion, and we may act without warning or explanation. We provide the discussion areas of our sites as a service to Residents, and we will take the actions we deem appropriate to keep our sites a productive and enjoyable environment for all Residents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 If it's pretty clear....then why is this thread sitting here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 "...pretty clear to most of us." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I do realize that you have been granted permission to post as you please.... but did not realize that you spoke for MOST of the people. how many would that be....specifically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 Do you really not get it that in accusing the mods of granting me special privileges you are violating the guidelines? That your threads get pulled because they show no respect for the guidelines or the mods, and not because the mods are playing favorites? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I see... and you "think" that you determine what is offensive and what is not. and you "think" that it's all pretty clear....yet was not clear during OP. so....the fact that my first post got removed and your thread stayed.... everyone is pretty clear on that now? you "think?" eta: this is a response to a post that was edited. the sentence I was responding to is no longer there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 What I "get" right now.... is that Pamela Galli is flat out stating that I am disrespectful to mods.... after posting a thread that calls them... let me grab that phrase..... your quote: "That comes across as excessively totalitarian censorship, which will choke the life out of a forum as quickly as weak moderation." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrius Gothly Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 The "Difference": Pamela said (paraphrased): "That kind of behavior makes you look like jerks." Note that she did not call the mods jerks, she stated that it gives that appearance. It's the sort of thing one friend would say to another to help them get a better perspective from another point of view. Mickey said (paraphrased): "You mods are jerks." That's a direct insult and a personal observation that is aimed, with no intent other than to insult, directly at the mods. Pamela's intent was to help improve the user perception. Mickey, your intent was to piss someone off. Interestingly, you both succeeded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peewee Musytari Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 /me throws some chill pills at everyone I agree that most of us reading this thread are probably unaware of any specific case that prompted it, so to us it is taken on face value as a thread asking for some clarification of the modding system & in that context it is a rational & polite request, which, while it does contain some colourful descriptions, it is not in any way offensive. So it is unecessary to relive the angst of some other thread, in order to debate the issue in this one. Mickey, said "I do agree with the concept that an entire thread should not be removed, as I had left posts in the thread she is talking about and have no idea why the thread was removed, but was not able to follow it overnight." so everyone agrees there was a need for this discussion. It is also posted on the Feedback forum, so some leniency is likely to be granted in order to give proper feedback on a community issue, rather than it not being pulled due to any sort of favoritism. Lexie has already confirmed that "I think it is fine to discuss how we can make communication better here on the forums. I do see your point and maybe we can be more lenient on pulling whole threads. We will work on this. Thanks for the feedback! " So hopefully things will improve to the satisfaction of everyone. Peace! (as Hippie would say) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I did not say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 Thanks Pee Wee -- I am all for peace :matte-motes-sunglasses-3: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 The angst from another thread was displayed in OP. Pamela got her issue resolved. I stated that I do not understand. and I will not get an issue resolved. in a nutshell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peewee Musytari Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Mickey Vandeverre wrote: I did not say that. It is a copy/paste from your post that starts "deteriorate into a slugfest". EDIT: Ooops sorry you were talking to Darrius not me. *facepaws* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 "I think it is fine to discuss how we can make communication better here on the forums. I do see your point and maybe we can be more lenient on pulling whole threads. We will work on this. Thanks for the feedback!" this is my feedback expressed more clearly: I am not receiving notices that posts are being pulled, and saw comments from others in another thread that they are not receiving them either. has this changed? or is that a glitch in the notification system concerning just a few individuals. if the latter....how shall we report this. with notification....we are sometimes able to go directly back to the thread in a timely fashion and try to determine what happened. we can also rephrase our thoughts if we were responding directly to someone, rather than leave them hanging with no response. I find this particular aspect crucial in the merchants forum where some of those discussions may or may not impact marketplace features. someone mentioned in another thread that we may contact a moderator and ask why a particular post was removed. is this true? do you encourage this...or is it frowned upon. and how do we know which moderator to contact if we were not sent a notification as to who removed it. if we feel as though our thoughts are continually being tagged in an abusive style fashion, with no clear reason as to which guideline they did not adhere to....what would be the process to address that. I do not think that contacting an individual with an IM will solve it, but rather make it worse. In order to limit the above...simply knowing whether a moderator pulled the thought immediately without a flag from another customer...that would nip speculation of abuse in the bud. a simple statement on notification saying "the moderator has determined this post unacceptable" or "this post has been flagged, and the moderator determines this post unacceptable"....like that. I believe that everyone should have the right to request that their thread be removed if they are uncomfortable with the outcome or if they have a change of heart on information provided. Others will have a different opinion. if you believe that a poster should have the right to that request.....then perhaps a tag that says "removed by moderator" or "removed by OP request" would distinguish. Although that sets the OP up for possible harassment by others...it might eliminate confusion or extensive discussion on "why" an entire thread was pulled, and might possibly reduce the frustration levels. thank you. eta: also - trying to contact a moderator now with a question...and am not clear on how to do that. I think that my private messaging system has always been turned off. if that is enabled...will an option appear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Thank you Mickey... you brought up a lot of things I find disturbing about the moderation process. I believe it needs to be looked at very closely and revamped completely if need be. It's seriously that borked. There is no accountability what-so-ever. Not knowing why your post was pulled or that your post was even pulled, leave us to speculate on the cause and that speculation is starting to pit people against people and groups against groups. It's driving a wedge into our community and something has to be done about it. I've been thinking about this a lot and have come up with a few solutions that I don't really expect to be well received but are absolutely necessary none-the-less. Unfortunately I don't have the time to list them here now because I have to go get a flat fixed on my car (what fun!). Plus, I believe it would be better to start a new thread about it rather than continue here, since this thread is really only about one issue and there are a lot more that need to be covered. I'll post something later tonight or tomorrow and look forward to your and everyone's participation. ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Thanks, Dresden. You can copy and paste those questions for another thread, or I can insert them. thought best that I do not start a thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleseren Brianna Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Something not yet discussed here (unless I missed it) LL pulling threads because they are embarrassing for LL. I posted a thread about a bug tracker issue yesterday (my main av currently cannot get inworld on ANY of the V3 style viewers). I discovered this has happened before and LL ignored it for months because it was linked to a confidential LL Jira. So I posted a thread warning people about this devastating bug, and the fact that LL are not rushing to fix it. Guess what? my thread was pulled. I read the community posting guidelines and as far as I can see didnt infringe any. The moderator sent me a jolly private message to say 'dont worry!' we have pulled your post because it is being escalated to people to fix it! oh, but please dont post it again.... If that isnt the secret police in action, I dont know what is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Eleseren Brianna wrote: Something not yet discussed here (unless I missed it) LL pulling threads because they are embarrassing for LL. I posted a thread about a bug tracker issue yesterday (my main av currently cannot get inworld on ANY of the V3 style viewers). I discovered this has happened before and LL ignored it for months because it was linked to a confidential LL Jira. So I posted a thread warning people about this devastating bug, and the fact that LL are not rushing to fix it. Guess what? my thread was pulled. I read the community posting guidelines and as far as I can see didnt infringe any. The moderator sent me a jolly private message to say 'dont worry!' we have pulled your post because it is being escalated to people to fix it! oh, but please dont post it again.... If that isnt the secret police in action, I dont know what is. Were or Are you having the same issue reported in these two places? https://my.secondlife.com/rodvik.linden/posts/4f422fca137210000100284b https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7653?focusedCommentId=311763#comment-311763 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Eleseren Brianna wrote: Something not yet discussed here (unless I missed it) LL pulling threads because they are embarrassing for LL. I posted a thread about a bug tracker issue yesterday (my main av currently cannot get inworld on ANY of the V3 style viewers). I discovered this has happened before and LL ignored it for months because it was linked to a confidential LL Jira. So I posted a thread warning people about this devastating bug, and the fact that LL are not rushing to fix it. Guess what? my thread was pulled. I read the community posting guidelines and as far as I can see didnt infringe any. The moderator sent me a jolly private message to say 'dont worry!' we have pulled your post because it is being escalated to people to fix it! oh, but please dont post it again.... If that isnt the secret police in action, I dont know what is. Sad really... don't be surprised when this post is pulled as well. ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facebook
Instagram
Twitter
YouTube
Flickr
Recommended Posts
Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now