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Ashasekayi Ra

Joint Offsets in Blender 2.59??

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Alrighty, so Prep mentioned some changes in the uploader for Blender 2.59 files. The good news is that plain rigged mesh without changed joints work fine when exported from 2.59. However, if you offset the joints, the mesh comes out all Frankensteiny.

The first picture shows a mini me version of my shirt with joint offsets. It's half the size of the SL avatar. It worked fine and was exported from 2.49. ( Note: Thank you Tiberious for explaining how to offset joints in the first place. :) )

249.jpg

 

The second picture shows what happened with the same joint offsets exported from 2.59.

259.jpg

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Hi Max, Asha,

This is a weird problem and shows up in a few ways.   I have a file that uploads fine made with Blender 2.58 with the fix to change the bone naming that Tapple found.  This works fine with viewers in the 2.8 series using Joint Poistions  up to Second Life 2.8.2 (237914) Aug  4 2011 22:11:41 (Project Viewer - Mesh).   All the V3 series up to and including 3.0.2.238503 Fail using Joint Position in the upload with the same crazy offsets you see.

The first image is the avatar uploaded using V2.8 237914 build.. and is superimposed on my avatar and the rigging works well.. The second image is wearing a version (from the same DAE file created with 2.58) uploaded using the current 3.0.2.238503 viewer.

The second image is also what it looks like when created in Blender 2.59  r39475 and uploaded with EITHER V2.8 OR V3 viewer with OR without joint offsets and worn.  In all cases the rezzed only avatar in T-Pose looks fine.

It seems to me, based on these observations,  that there is an issue with Blender 2.59 BUT also an issue with the V3 mesh uploader.

AvViewer2.8 upload.jpg

 

AvViewer3.0upload.jpg

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Max: Thanks for posting that link.

Chodai: Yes, mine was mangled in exactly the same way. I agree the problem is that I'm not sure where the bug lies either. Is it in the SL uploader or in the Blender 2.59 code?? It's hard to make a bug report when you are unsure about the origin of the issue.

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I'm going to stick my neck out here since I'm not even sure what a .slm file is, but it started appearing on my computer after loading up meshes.  Unless I delete it or rename my mesh, the second time I try to upload it with a scaled avatar armature attached to my mesh, it ignores the deformations and the mesh is all distorted, so if I decide to make a small change in weighting verts, etc. on re-load it gave me problems until I figured out I needed to give it a new name or remove that dang file (one of these days I'll get my nose out of my current project and learn the purpose of that .slm file).  

I hope if this doesn't help in this instance, it will help someone else looking to solve another problem.

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The .slm file is supposed to simplify uploading a model a second time, by keeping data and settings.  In practice, I almost only upload a model again after I change it, so the .slm is an annoying item to delete before upload.

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One thing you can do so that the uploader does not use the .sllm file is in debug settings, set mesh import use SLM to false. Hope this helps :D

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No, that wasn't my problem. But, thanks for pointing out that the .slm file can cause problems in these cases. I generally make a habit out of deleting the slm file between changes. I only keep it once I have something final.

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I haven't spent  much time in 2.59, but I just attempted to to make a mini avie with a clothing item and I had the same results as you and Chodai did.  I spent quite a bit of time trying things like importing the dae file back into  blender 2.49 (mesh mess) and into Modo (it was fine there).  I rotated it to face the x axis, just for the heck of it, and the same results.

It's interesting that it stacks the avie parts horizontally.  The legs on the left, the top in the middle and the head on the right.  I merged my verts to have one obj of the avie.  Maybe I'll try deleting the uvs and going just with a single material group.

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I'm not a programmer so I have no idea what I'm looking at, but I compared a collada file from 2.59 and 2.49b and they look quite different in a number of ways.  Maybe someone who can parse these files can comment on that. 

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Hmmm interesting.  On impulse I took advantage of a preorder discount to convert Poser 8 to PoserPro 2012 because it has collada import/export. Now I'm thinking I may have made a error in being so hasty since I have no idea what version Poser will offer...most likely the most updated 1.41 since PoserPro 2012 hasn't been release yet.  :matte-motes-bored:

And I looked at what version of Collada Modo uses...no info there.  How very frustrating.  Clearly the version matters since it's used to export to other programs.

 

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Nacy Nightfire wrote:

Hmmm interesting.  On impulse I took advantage of a preorder discount to convert Poser 8 to PoserPro 2012 because it has collada import/export. Now I'm thinking I may have made a error in being so hasty since I have no idea what version Poser will offer...most likely the most updated 1.41 since PoserPro 2012 hasn't been release yet.  :matte-motes-bored:

And I looked at what version of Collada Modo uses...no info there.  How very frustrating.  Clearly the version matters since it's used to export to other programs.

 

I bit the Poser Pro 2012 upgrade apple too but not because of SL. However, I am curious if you'll be able to make SL rigged mesh with it since it will have weight painting now. But, the Collada issue is always frustrating since programs can have vastly different Collada support. To make it even more confusing, the most current Collada is version 1.5.

 

 

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Collada 1.5..oh what a nightmare!  But wasn't it delightful to learn at the mesh meeting that getting Blender 2.59's version of Collada is a priority :matte-motes-smile:   That's really been holding me back from jumping over from ver 2.49.

It's annoying that these programs don't allow you to just plug in the version of Collada you prefer.  Or maybe that's possible and I'm not tech savvy (saavy?) enough to know how to do it.  When Modo first offered Collada, they referred their customers to the Collada website.  Now with the current version it's included automagically, but there's no information I can find on their website which Collada version they are using.

Well since you are a Poser and and an advanced 3d artist , I feel better about my purchase.  And I'm intrigued also about where the new weight painting feature will take us, at the very least it ought to smooth out the animations.

It seems folks talk more about Daz, which I'm assuming is a competitor to Poser, but I never checked into that and quite frankly I don't want to start with another package.  I bought Poser 6 on ebay when I started in SL because I was intrigued with making simple animations for SL and I've just hung in there with it.

 

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Nacy Nightfire wrote:.  Now with the current version it's included automagically, but there's no information I can find on their website which Collada version they are using.


Aside from asking them directly, or on their forums, every Collada file, which is an XML format text file you can read with any text editor, has a string near the top which will read something like:

<COLLADA xmlns="http://www.collada.org/2005/11/COLLADASchema" version="1.4.0">

So just have someone spit out a file and you can read the version number.

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I just called smith micro/poser and was told PoserPro 2012  will be using Collada 1.5...although the person I spoke to seemed a bit hesitant about her info.

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Nacy Nightfire wrote:

Collada 1.5..oh what a nightmare!  But wasn't it delightful to learn at the mesh meeting that getting Blender 2.59's version of Collada is a priority :matte-motes-smile:   That's really been holding me back from jumping over from ver 2.49.

It's annoying that these programs don't allow you to just plug in the version of Collada you prefer.  Or maybe that's possible and I'm not tech savvy (saavy?) enough to know how to do it.  When Modo first offered Collada, they referred their customers to the Collada website.  Now with the current version it's included automagically, but there's no information I can find on their website which Collada version they are using.

Well since you are a Poser and and an advanced 3d artist , I feel better about my purchase.  And I'm intrigued also about where the new weight painting feature will take us, at the very least it ought to smooth out the animations.

It seems folks talk more about Daz, which I'm assuming is a competitor to Poser, but I never checked into that and quite frankly I don't want to start with another package.  I bought Poser 6 on ebay when I started in SL because I was intrigued with making simple animations for SL and I've just hung in there with it.

 

Daz and Poser have a complex relationship these days. :D Back in the day, the companies had products that depended on each other since Daz was the biggest producer of quality content for Poser. Today, they have both crossed over into the other one's pool. So, I suppose you can consider them competitors, yet they actually still need each other. I'm not sure the companies realize that though. :P But anyway, the new pro version of Dazstudio will also allow you to use weight painting, and it will have Collada export. But, it will be anyone's guess if it will be compatible. It is supposed to come out later this month. I'll be curious to test it out.

 Speaking of Dazstudio, it has a kick butt decimator plugin that you can buy for it. It works pretty good hand in hand with a high resolution Zbrush or MD models. Unlike a number of decimators out there, it keeps the UV map intact and does a pretty good job of keeping the quality. That being said, it is better to do manual retopology. But, if you have an emergency job, it works in a pinch.

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