I dont have a feeling for polygons and what is to much and what is ok..

[Miyo Darcy]

Hello friends.

 

I made a staircase with cinema 4d and I guess it is ready to get exported. But there is one thing I am still unsure about and I cant find anything about this topic.

I talk about poly count. What is ok to upload and what is far to much?

 

My staircase for example has now 648 kbytes, 10.407 points, 9125 polys and 31 instanced objects (in a zero object).

Is that to much for import? Im really not sure about that. Can anybody tell me about his experience with import and how much polys are ok?

[York Jessop]

I would expect that the streaming weight will be the highest for that build and as such will most probably be looking at roughly around 400PE for that file size which imo is way too high for a staircase. To give you an example the exterior of my mansion is currently standing at 117kbytes and 68PE and its not small.

You can go to onto Aditi the beta server and do a free test upload to see what your PE is.

[Miyo Darcy]

I was able to go down to 500 kbytes now. I really wonder how I could reduce more polys now.

Yea I will try to import it on beta grid now.

[Gaia Clary]

I am currently experimenting a lot with optimizing meshes. I can not tell that i am already satisfied with what i found out up till today, but maybe what i already have can help a bit:

http://blog.machinimatrix.org/shoe-quest/

The Shoe quest is work in progress. Actually i am currently at the "optimization stage" (chapter 8 of 10) and i hope that i can get the video part 8 out tonight. it is made with blender but the principles should be similar to other tools.

http://blog.machinimatrix.org/kettle-quest/

The kettle Quest is an attempt to demonstrate how to make the transition from "Sulpted Prims" to "Mesh prims". The first 4 chapters are done. the part about Physics and linksets is still missing.

While i am not describing how to make stair cases in these videos i think that they can give you some hints about what you ask for.

[Miyo Darcy]

Awww that is wonderful Gaia. All these tutorials help so much. I defently put it in my bookmarks and will study it later then. Yes maybe I can transport some theory back to c4d. Sometimes I also use 3ds max tuts and found then helpful ideas too. Maybe some blender theory works as well.

Imo I really need to learn much. I work already for quit some time with c4d but when it comes to export and import and exspecialy low poly theory.. well that are these topics where I need improvements.

Thanks for your links. Hope to find some tricks there later.

 

 

[York Jessop]

Like Gaia im still testing alot with optimisation, one method i use which is incredibly time consuming, is to triangulate everything (there is usually a tool that does this automatically, then start merging your tri's, in most cases i can reduce vert counts by 50 - 75% using this method but as mentioned it is very time consuming and if you have a function to preserve UV coordinates make sure its turned on! (learnt the hard way on that one!). You could do your UV maps after this but i found its much easier to UV quads than tris.

Triangulating everything is always a good practice, it leads to alot less problems when you do finally import into SL as you pretty much import exactly whats in your scene rather than having the collada exporter translate it.

Another method i found is to use soft edges for your curves, curves can use alot of edges but with a soft edge you can get the same appearance with much less egdes.

[Tarius Auxarmes]

This list may come in handy in seeing how many polys are used in a typical game. I wish more people could look at this. Please dont take this as an absolute set of figures, poly counts, like I mention below, can only serve as a guide.

---

Polycounts

From cgsociety forum:

**************************************************************************

**************************************************************************

1997

Mortal Kombat 4, Zeus Arcade Board

           -Peak number of polygons per second - 1.2 million quad patches**

           

**************************************************************************

**************************************************************************

1998

Half-Life, PC

           -Zombie - 844 polygons

           -High Definition pack Zombie- 1700 polygons

           

**************************************************************************

**************************************************************************

2001

Half-Life, Dreamcast, (2000-2001) (Canned)

           -Zombie - 1649 polygons

           

Half-Life, PS2

           -Zombie - 2822 (Highest LOD)

           

Halo, Xbox

           -Masterchief - 2,000 polygons

Morrowind, PC

    -Frost Atronach - ~1,600 polygons - plus bones, etc

    -Tavern - 1188 polygons - plus 120 polygon collision mesh

    -Dwarven Claymore - 400 polygons

**************************************************************************

**************************************************************************

2002

Canned Boss Game Studios game, Xbox

           -Cars - 25000 polygons (highest LOD) - 4 textures/poly, Base  texture, Reflection map, a texture used to compute

     a fresnel term,  Shadow map, Specular highlight (encoded in the alpha channel of the  reflection map)

           -Backgrounds - 2 or in some cases 3 textures/poly

           -Peak number of polygons per second - 30M polygons**

Deathrow, Xbox

           -Characters - up to 7,000 polygons - 55 bones - 1024x1024 textures on the bodies and 512x512 on the faces

           

Medal of Honour: Allied Assault, PC

           -Character - 4096 polygons

           

Mortal Kombat Deadly Alliance, PS2/Xbox/GC

           -Characters - ~7,000-10,000

                       

Super Mario Sunshine, GC

           -Mario - 1500 polygons

           -Levels - ~ 60,000 polygons

           

The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker, GC

           -Link - 2800 polygons

           

V-Rally 3, PS2

           -Vehicles - 15,000-16,000 polygons (Might count multi-passes)

           -Stages - 500,000 polygons

**************************************************************************

**************************************************************************

2004

GTA San Andreas, PS2

           -Characters - 2,000 polygons with 1 256×256 8bit texture

           -NPCs - 1,200 polygons with 1 256×128 8bit texture

           -Gant bridge - 16,000 polygons, includes LOD

Halflife 2, PC

           -Alyx Vance - 8323 polygons

           -Barney - 5922 polygons

           -Combine Soldier - 4682 polygons

           -Classic Headcrab - 1690 polygons

           -SMG - 2854 polygons (with arms)

           -Pistol - 2268 polygons (with arms)

           

Kingdom Under Fire : The Crusaders, Xbox

           -Main characters - 10,000 polygons

           -Characters - 3,000–4,000 polygons

           

**************************************************************************

**************************************************************************

2005

Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater, PS2

           -Snake - 4,000 polygons

 

Project Gotham Racing 3, X360

           -Cars - 80,000-100,000 polygons (interior + exterior), damages add between 10,000 and 20,000 more polygons per car

           -Brooklyn Bridge - 600,000 polygons (LOD might be included)

           -Manhattan Bridge - 1 million polygons (LOD might be included)

            

Resident Evil 4, Gamecube

           -Leon - 10,000 polygons

           

**************************************************************************

**************************************************************************

2006

Dead Rising, X360

           -Peak number of polygons per frame - ~ 4 million**

            

Gears of War, Xbox 360

           -Wretch - 10,000 polygons with diffuse, specular and normal maps

           -Boomer - 11,000 polygons with diffuse, specular and normal maps

           -Marcus - 15,000 polygons with diffuse, specular and normal maps

            

The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, GC/Wii

           -Link - 6900 polygons

                       

Vitua Fighter 5, Arcade/PS3/X360

           -Character - ~40,000 with diffuse, specular and normal maps

           -Background - 100,000 - 300,000 polygons

           

**************************************************************************

**************************************************************************

2007

Crysis, PC

           -Nano-suit character - 67,000 polygons (uncertain whether it's an in-game model or not)*

           -Characters' heads - ~2500-3000 polygons

           -Characters' bodies - ~5000 polygons__________________

                        

Mass Effect, X360

           -Sheppard + armor + weapons - ~20,000-25,000 polygons

Lair, PS3

           -Main dragon plus its rider - 150,000 polygons

           -16x16KM scene - 134M polygons (streamed into memory, not loaded at run time)            

Lost planet, X360/PC

           -Wayne - 12392 polygons (but finally 17765 polygons for compatibility with motion blur effect)

           -VS robot - 30-40,000 polygons

           -Background - ~500,000 polygons

           -Peak number of polygons per frame - ~ 3 million**

 

Midnight Club, Xbox360/PS3

           -Cars - 100,000 polygons

 

Uncharted: Drake's Fortune, PS3

           -Main characters - ~20,000-30,000 polygons

           -Drake - ~30,000 polygons

           -Pirates - ~12,000-15,000 polygons

**************************************************************************

**************************************************************************

Axel Impact/DTRacer, PS2, 2003/2005

           -Cars - Base mesh ~12,000 polygons (max LOD)

           -Volume Shadow mesh - 4,000-5,000 Vert (dynamic shadows are not stored as actual polygons, hence vertex count)

           -Stages - ~200k polygons

*************************************************         

Dead or Alive series, Xbox, 2001-2004

           -Character - ~10,000-15,000

*************************************************

Gran Turismo 3, PS2, 2001

           -Cars - ~2,000-4,000 polygons

           

Gran Turismo 4, PS2, 2004

           -Cars - ~2,000-5,000 polygons

           

Gran Turismo 5: Prologue, PS3, 2007

           -Cars - 200,000 polygons (probably interior + exterior)

*************************************************

Jak & Daxter, PS2, 2001

           -Jak - 4000 polygons

           

Jak II, PS2, 2003

           -Jak - 10,000 polygons*

*************************************************                                           

Virtua Fighter 4, Naomi 2, 2001

           -Jacky - 14,000 polygons

           

Virtua Fighter 4, PS2, 2002

           -Jacky - 7,000 polygons

 

---

Ok, so what does this list mean for you? Well it should serve as a guide. However, the difference between these games and SL is that the game files are all already on your computer when you are playing the game. With SL, they all have to be streamed to you. With sculpties, something based off a sphere(probably the most comon shape used) can have 1988polys(triangles) while something based on a plane can have 1024 polys; both will likely have 1089 verticies however. Ok, so you know how much lag you experience in a place with lots of sculpties? Well, this should give you an idea how much lag you could get with mesh by using the same number of polys etc.

One of the key things to take into account with the number of polys that the Master Chief has or the number that Shepard has is that they are both main characters for the game they are in. They are more detailed then most other things in the game because you see them the most. Other non-main characters could be said on average today to have something like 10000 polys but characters with only a few thousand are definitely still around. I wouldnt advocate cramming 20-30k polys or more into a mesh meant for an AV on SL though, unless there is no other choice but thats unlikely.

Ok, aside from that, I havent said much about actual objects. In the case of your stairs, I dont know how complex you made them. Perhaps they have rounded lips and include railings and lots of different features. However, my first reaction is to recoil in horror at the number of polys they contain. I do model work for another game and I have to make sure my models are are not overly complex and make efficiant use of polys. I would make a basic building mesh(exterior, no interior and lacking windows but those are separate) and the entire thing would have no more than 2-3k polys at the very most - this is an entire building mind you.

As for if your stairs really are too many polys, my first reaction is probably yes, even though like I said above, I dont know how large and/or complex you made them. The thing is, and this is something everyone who decides to make a mesh for SL should be forced to learn, is that you shouldnt make a mesh replicate every single detail on a surface, not only is that unefficiant and in many cases time consuming and unrealistic, it requires a heck of alot more computing power to do, and in the case of SL, bandwidth. You need to let textures do alot of the work, they fill in most of the detail you need.

Another thing everyone should learn is that when you have a flat surface, you need to have as few polys as you can representing it(the flat surface) because additional polys dont provide anything yet still take computing resources. When you UV something, the texture isnt going to care whether a surface is made of 10 polys or 100 polys, the texture will still show up the way you UVed it.(I hate that I cant provide UV maps for sculpties, only bake textures for them)(there are certain caveates with trying to fit too many or too few pixels on a poly with some file formats, but you shouldnt worry about that)

Wow, I ended up typing alot, but the last thing I have to say is another thing everyone should learn: You do not need to add detail in the form of polys beyond a certain point because ultimately, unless people look at it very closely and carefully, they arnt going to notice or care. An example of this would be using a cylinder with something like 50 sides, versus using one that has 100 sides. They are both going to look the same to most people because unless you make the cylinder really huge, you arnt even going to notice the fact that one has less sides, the change is simply too small to see.

Summary is:

Let textures do alot of the work.

Cramming alot of polys onto flat surfaces isnt going to accomplish anything.

Only add detail up to a point because beyond that point, no one will notice anyway.

 

Well, I hope this helps people some.

[Julianna Holmer]

Good info Tarius, great post

 

that explained it to me

 

D

 

[arton Rotaru]

I also don't know how complex your staircase is, so I have to say, it depends on that, how many polys it should have.

That said, comparing SL with other games isn't really a fair comparison, because most of those games use a lot more bells and wistles to spice their models up, like normal maps. We don't have those yet, so we probably end up with more triangles than it could be with normal maps.

Also, with the other games, you bought all the models already with the game. So you don't go to a shop, cam scan everything to the closest to decide to buy this particular model or not. So, probably a highly detailed, hi res textured model will be bought over a low poly, low res texture, but highly "efficient" model. (IMOH) SL is different in many ways from other games.

But, SL is ruled by prims, and PE. So we have to take care of the polys anyway.

To give an example, here are a few pics of a mesh house I made. It's nothing fancy, just a mesh re-build of a similar looking prim house I made last year. To compare the prim count mesh vs. prims/sculpts.

The mesh version is 52 PE, 5096 Triangles in highest LODs.

Btw. The similar looking Prim house is 92 prims, 26512 Triangles.

[Tarius Auxarmes]

---

arton Rotaru wrote:

I also don't know how complex your staircase is, so I have to say, it depends on that, how many polys it should have.

That said, comparing SL with other games isn't really a fair comparison, because most of those games use a lot more bells and wistles to spice their models up, like normal maps. We don't have those yet, so we probably end up with more triangles than it could be with normal maps.

---

Yes, its true that SL doesnt have normal maps or even bump maps(other then those god awful basic ones). That is something I have wanted for the longest time that could have made alot of difference even without mesh.

Well, like I say in my post, it can only be used as a guide. If anything, prims are alot more inefficiant than mesh can be and even if you were to go about adding just a little more detail than normal, you would still get good results anyway.

Yes, SL is different compared to other games, but there is still plenty of room for detail without maps and without going overboard. I just hope mapping gets here soon.

 

---

arton Rotaru wrote:

To give an example, here are a few pics of a mesh house I made. It's nothing fancy, just a mesh re-build of a similar looking prim house I made last year. To compare the prim count mesh vs. prims/sculpts.

The mesh version is 52 PE, 5096 Triangles in highest LODs.

---

Ok people! THIS HERE!! Now THIS is what im talkin' bout! This is a perfect example of what can be done with mesh over prims and its done properly too. You definitely know what you are doing and I wish more people could see this sort of example and follow it. I would be willing to say that this unfortunately will not be the case and I hope for too much.

Limited use of curved surfaces is a good thing as well as its the curves that will suck up polys. I suppose this is another good thing to mention, favor use rectangular or angled shapes over use of curved surfaces; thats one way to help limit poly use.

[Miyo Darcy]

Ok after reading all that here I understand that curves make big polycount. And sadly my staircase which is a spiral staircase have lots of those curves.

My idea to reduce polys now is:

a) abandon the use of those cylinders in the middle (20 little round cylinders).

b) using edged stairs instead of round stairs.

This will propably reduce a lot and check that out now.

Anyway here is my staircase I made.. that is the staircase which seems to have to much polys:

 

 

I did reduce every segment amplitude to 10 or so when I did create the cylinders as they have 36 segments in standart when I create them. I also thought I never need 36 segments and I can save lots of polys by reducing it. 10 was great and still round .. 8 would not be round anymore... for the stairs I did use just 3 segments but maybe its still to much when I read all this here.

But when I understand this thread here now, I should really abadon the idea of using so much cylinders.

I still did not make a test upload on beta server to get an PE.. first I try now to use less rounds.. then I install mesh viewer later and try it out.

Im really happy to have this discussion here. I´ve seen a lot of great imput and I also noticed that I am beginner when it comes to create low poly stuff. I feel good with cinema 4d and did create lots of stuff in the past but I never did take care about polys as I did render photos and they were rendering fast enough so that I was able to add lots of details, nevermind what kind of object I did build. I made it just for fun. Ok but now its time to learn about creating low poly stuff... at least I need to learn techniques how to build with less polys.

You also did mention already some poly numbers here.. and I realized that you have far less with a complete building then me with my single stair case. I know must go deep into this topic of low poly.

[Gaia Clary]

it realy depends on what type of object you build:

 

• When you have lots of sharp edges and flat surfaces, mesh will be unbeatable in vertex efficiency.
• When you have rounded edges and curved surfaces, you will have to tweek your meshes a LOT to get low face count AND good look and feel.

I am learning to optimize a shoe roight now and it took me over a day to locate all edge loops which i can safely remove before the model gets severely distorted.

For example :

from back to front:

 

5400 triangles

1200 triangles

276 triangles

I am convinced that i can make the model with about 600-800 triangles without looking blocky. But it takes a lot of time (for me at least) to get such an optimization done and also add all levels of detail meshes with correct UV-layouts...

But i am learning now ;-)

[Miyo Darcy]

Ok. When I try to upload my staircase to the mesh grid with the latest mesh viewer.. the mesh viewer will lose reaction. I just can close the software by windows then.

I did try to upload a collada 10x10x10 test cube.. that is ok for the software but sadly I cant see this cube in the import preview.

Oh your shoes looking great. I guess your have much more know how about reducing then. I must read a lot I am sure.

[Nalates Urriah]

I seem to remember Charlar or Nyx saying the typical scene in SL has something like 250,000 to 350,000 polygons visible to an avatar. Draw distance is a controlling factor in the count.

The Avatar has 7,000+ polygons. I consider an extremely complex mesh.

But just polygon counting is not an answer. When you calc your upload cost you get a PE value. It was named Prim Equivalency. I suspect the Lindens regret that choice. But they are sort of locked in on several fronts. PE is more a measure of resource consumption. Obviously you want the PE as low as possible. Balancing that with appearance is what we are all learning right now. Some of us are waiting for Gaia to complete her learning process and post videos. TY Gaia. I'm considering a video tutorial on simplifying processes for LoD levels, as I find that tedious. I had no clue how to do it. I just built my high detail model as simply as I could. Now I have to simplify my 'simplified' high detail model 3 more times. And there as to be an easier way to deal with UVMap unwraps than what I'm doing. As we figure out these things there will be more tutorials appearing.

My experience so far is that I can get nicer shapes and bake better textures with mesh a lower prim count than with pure prims. If I can build a mesh that reduces prim count then I think it is worth the effort. If not, that model is not a candidate for mesh. 

The link-sets have some interesting efficiencies. In some cases mixing mesh and prim is a good idea. In other cases it is a really bad idea. 

[York Jessop]

I noticed your railings are probably taking up the majority of your poly count, it is possible to create a cylinderical appearance with a radius of 6 segments, just use soft edges. You could probably drop the poly count by 60% by doing that whilst keeping an acceptable visual look, Also I would consider squaring off the ends of your steps, its not ideal but again you could shave off another 2/3rd from the steps poly count.

[Gaia Clary]

After loking again on your stair case i got this very trivial idea: what about creating "stair case building blocks" ? For example make only one mesh object which contains stair cases for lets say 90 degrees (4 or 5 steps). Then rezz as many building blocks as you need to make your stair case. Maybe that could also save a lot of PE ?

Also note that the by far most amount of PE comes from the lowest LOD. So wen you can optimize the lowest LOD mesh to an absolute minimum of faces, you would gain a lot.

[Tarius Auxarmes]

---

York Jessop wrote:

I noticed your railings are probably taking up the majority of your poly count, it is possible to create a cylinderical appearance with a radius of 6 segments, just use soft edges. You could probably drop the poly count by 60% by doing that whilst keeping an acceptable visual look, Also I would consider squaring off the ends of your steps, its not ideal but again you could shave off another 2/3rd from the steps poly count.

---

I agree with this. The railings are definitely whats taking all the polys. The steps themselves look completely fine - if you want and like the rounded look, however the middle column could be simplified a bit to chop another chunk off the poly count.

 

---

 

Nalates Urriah

 wrote:

I seem to remember Charlar or Nyx saying the typical scene in SL has something like 250,000 to 350,000 polygons visible to an avatar. Draw distance is a controlling factor in the count.

The Avatar has 7,000+ polygons. I consider an extremely complex mesh.

But just polygon counting is not an answer.

---

Yea, that number seems about right.

The AV mesh I suppose you could consider complicated. However, when you go about making a body like that, you typically start out with basic shapes and "mold" them into a body. The end result is alot of vertices and polys and edges like anything else. Bodies like the AV mesh are about as complicated as you will get however. They all start out simple though.

Like I said in my post, poly counts can only serve as a guide. Obviously more than poly counts matter here, but trying to use as few as possible is usually a good thing regardless of what its for.

 

---

 

Gaia Clary

 wrote:

Reply to Tarius Auxarmes - view message 08-14-2011 03:08 AM - last edited on 08-14-2011 03:10 AM

it realy depends on what type of object you build:

 •When you have lots of sharp edges and flat surfaces, mesh will be unbeatable in vertex efficiency.

•When you have rounded edges and curved surfaces, you will have to tweek your meshes a LOT to get low face count AND good look and feel.

 I am learning to optimize a shoe roight now and it took me over a day to locate all edge loops which i can safely remove before the model gets severely distorted.

 For example : from back to front: 5400 triangles 1200 triangles 276 triangles

I am convinced that i can make the model with about 600-800 triangles without looking blocky.

But it takes a lot of time (for me at least) to get such an optimization done and also add all levels of detail meshes with correct UV-layouts... But i am learning now ;-)

---

 Yes, this shoe is a perfect example of why you dont need to stuff something with polys. Between the back and the middle shoe, there is hardly any visual difference at all despite the fact that one has almost 5x less polys.

I suppose I have experience with how many sides and such to start out with when I make something, but typically I try and plan what sides and how many are going to be used for what; I then predict approximately how many I should start out with when I create a basic shape. Its alot easier for me to use just a few more than I need and reduce that amount then it is to use too few and end up having to add more.

[arton Rotaru]

Just out of curiosity. Quick and dirty. I used 10 verts for the 20 cylinders in the middle, like yours. I probably would use 8, though, like I did on the rails. Of course, it could be done with even less triangles.

It's triangulated already, so it's 2044 Tris..

[Nacy Nightfire]

"one method i use which is incredibly time consuming, is to triangulate everything (there is usually a tool that does this automatically, then start merging your tri's, in most cases i can reduce vert counts by 50 - 75% using this method but as mentioned it is very time consuming "

York,  the free program Sculptris from Pixologic has a brush that reduces triangles on the fly. http://www.pixologic.com/sculptris/

You can bring your obj in and it will be automatically triangulated although usually I've used Zbrush plug in Decimation Master at about 75 percent to begin the reduction a sculpted quad poly model from Zbrush and then after importing it to Sculptris I  used the reduce brush to bring it down in in count in the areas that don't need so much detail.  It might be worth trying if you aren't already using a similar workflow.

Edited to include snapshot:

[Miyo Darcy]

Ok I did gather some pretty great ideas here to reduce polys and so. Thank you all very much. I played a bit with differend shapes and how I can optimize them..

Sadly I cant even calculate a PE because import doesnt work for me. Not even a cube.. I dont have a preview of my test objects when I try to import the collada.. but that is another topic I waiting for help in a nother thread here.

 

So.. at the moment it is pretty difficult to check things out in SL beta grid with mesh beta viewer.

I must first fix that problem and then I will make some poly reducing and upload to get a bit confy with that PE value. So that I understand it.

About the railings.. I made them with splines and a "sweep-nurbs". Yesterday I did read that we cant import objects which made of nurbs.. that is really a problem then. I use nurbs pretty much often. I guess I must then learn other techniques to create differend things.

[Miyo Darcy]

Ok I did now get import working. So now I start modelling in regard of all the great feedback here.

 

[Miyo Darcy]

---

York Jessop wrote:

I noticed your railings are probably taking up the majority of your poly count, it is possible to create a cylinderical appearance with a radius of 6 segments, just use soft edges. You could probably drop the poly count by 60% by doing that whilst keeping an acceptable visual look, Also I would consider squaring off the ends of your steps, its not ideal but again you could shave off another 2/3rd from the steps poly count.

---

That was absolotly correct. I did play a bit with my railings now and reduced it from 10 sides to 5 sides which looks still great in my opinion. Not round anymore but a complete other style.. I could also use 6 as you said but I decidd for 5 now.

I also did reduce polys on the middle pole and pole details.

 

And look...I just went down from 9125 polys to 1904 polys now. That should be ok for an spiral stair case? I will check out PE now.

Anyway I am so much happy that I´ve got so many feedback from you all. Thats why SL makes soooo much fun. Best community ever

[DanielRavenNest Noe]

Make custom Level of Detail models for upload, it will look better than the auto-LOD.  The physics shape should be just one triangle for each step and a hexagonal column for the outside, with cutouts where you start and end.  That will keep the prim cost low.  The SL mesh cost favors very optimized versions for the lower LOD and physics

[Poenald Palen]

Wow, I had  HUGE post. I deleted it. I will say to things:

1. What are you making this for and what does this mean to the model?

2. Retopo a lower poly if you need less. Less can be way way more because of land costs, but this is up to you. Maybe you have such a large amount.....why waste time?

So, if time is abundent or if you can really use more polygons to reach your required designs purpose...then still reduce well (retopo allows this over a simple decimate or polyreduce tool/plu-in)

One more thing that might help, though I bet c4d has something like this in it already...but this one might be better for some users...a tool that is stand a alone and migh thelp. Meshlab. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MeshLab

 

EDIT: yikes...nurbs? Not sure, but you might want to switch to polygons OR after saving the .dae file just load that back in and work on that. Nurbs are neat! But, polygon reduction can get down to single selecting stuff and deleting it...it depends on how you want to do it. You might have to add loops in. But, if you use decimate or some other quick way (like sculptris, that was mentioned)...you will maybe need to retopo some edges and then add the loop...um, retopo is about topology so I think of loops on a map...sort of the same thing...but really, there are better experts online that know this stuff lol. I am a n00b still lol. But,yeah....um, retopo and deleting edges in a way that leaves the surface still connected will work. In blender, I know when you hit delete you get a list of choices. You can delete edges only and edge loops...edge loops only leaves you surfaces alone so it just reduces. Whereas, verts deletion will remove surface area connected and edges ect. Um, like I said...better to find a c3d article on making lower poly items and retopo might be a word you become familiar with. But, nurbs are not the collada formats methods. You will maybe be able to import the .dae file and work from that easier than making so many copies in the nurbs based file you save...but this is your choice! Texturing is an issue....wow, so many options this is a bit mind boggling...meshlab to this to that, normal map for texures...gosh, you can do things in many workflows! Good luck, I hope you find a good way that works for you...I think we need a bit of luck lol. It is hard to keep track of it all!

[York Jessop]

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Miyo Darcy wrote:

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York Jessop wrote:

I noticed your railings are probably taking up the majority of your poly count, it is possible to create a cylinderical appearance with a radius of 6 segments, just use soft edges. You could probably drop the poly count by 60% by doing that whilst keeping an acceptable visual look, Also I would consider squaring off the ends of your steps, its not ideal but again you could shave off another 2/3rd from the steps poly count.

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That was absolotly correct. I did play a bit with my railings now and reduced it from 10 sides to 5 sides which looks still great in my opinion. Not round anymore but a complete other style.. I could also use 6 as you said but I decidd for 5 now.

I also did reduce polys on the middle pole and pole details.

 

And look...I just went down from 9125 polys to 1904 polys now. That should be ok for an spiral stair case? I will check out PE now.

Anyway I am so much happy that I´ve got so many feedback from you all.

Thats why SL makes soooo much fun. Best community ever

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Glad to hear and that sounds much much better, hope the new PE is good

Its a really tough question on how much PE a model should have, the one thing is if you have the prims spare you can enjoy a much higher detailed model. Its something I found myself constantly thinking about when planning my builds and it felt limiting. I decided for my first 'sellable' building to just go with the creative side rather than the technical side and I expect my first luxury home to be around 1000PE which is high, yet when I compare it to other builds ingame right now I would say it will be much much better than those 2000+PE luxury mansions you see.

I may be wrong but I think the first thing a customer thinks about is the visual appeal, if they like it they will then start examining all the other aspects like PE and footprint ect and in some cases be willing to sacrifice those over looks.

If you are intending to sell it, you could always create 2 versions, a HD version and a low poly version, its actually quite easy to do that once you have created your LODs, just use the medium LOD as the high LOD and create a simple low LOD to put into the missing LOD slot while using a default 2tri for the lowest one.