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Dragolfy Baxter

What is the most recomended viewer?

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I was wondering which viewer is best recomended for an old user like myself. I want to rejoin Second Life with my old account and character, but I saw that the "Viewer 2" thing is much different from the first original viewer from many years ago. Is there a viewer that is similar to the first?

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Viewer 1.23 is still possible to use, even if LL does not develop it anymore. http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Alternate_Viewers

Phoenix viewer is also based upon Viewer 1, but you can use features like Alpha layers, tattoos and multiple attachments. But multiple layers does not work with Phoenix.  

The Phoenix team has a version of Viewer 2 called Firestorm. This is my preferred viewer, even if it's still in Beta. I don't find it so difficult to use. Phoenix and Firestorm can be found here: http://www.phoenixviewer.com/

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The Pheonix viewer is probably what you will want. However before long the older viewers will cease to work well as LL roles out new server updates. There are already issues with giving friends edit rights and what not. On the bright side the same people offer a V2 viewer called Firestorm which you can make look "sort of" like the 1.23 viewers. But due to the limitaions of the V2 code there is only so much they can do. So you will have to take some time learning where some of the stuff hidden since the menues are changed around a bit. They also have a video on how to adjust and make changes to the Firestorm viewer and a walk through where what is.

And once mesh becomes more popular you will have no choice but to switch to a viewer that lets you see it.

Phoenix and Firestorm are one of the most popular viewers in sl and there is good support for it as well.

As much as I hate to say it, the v2 viewers do work better as far as performance is concerned. And the LL V2 viewer offers the best performance of all of them at the moment. But saddly for many its interface is just horrid, I really don't know what they were thinking. These are just my opinions though. Many like the new viewer once they get used to it.

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Ok here is one opinion, I am sure many more will follow.

I have been on for about four years now and I keep going back to V1.23, for me it's just easier to use. V1.23 has many one or two click actions as opposed to all the multi-clicking in V2 for each and every action. However V2 has had 8 or so fixes to it to bring it back a least part way to being more user friendly. The big deal with V2 is it has two things in it that 1.23 does not support, inworld internet, (a click-able web page on a prim) and soon it will have mesh objects, (sculpties with greater detail and farther viewing distances). I as well as many others would use those but since so few people can see them there's little point; this is a shame since I feel a lot of great work by SL has gone unseen since it is hiding in the heavy V2 mess.

However the Phoenix viewer named Firestorm looks very good, one must still do a lot of customization on it to make it easy to use but it can be done.

Best bet, trial and error. See what works for you.

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Vladi Hazelnut wrote:

They also have a video on how to adjust and make changes to the Firestorm viewer and a walk through where what is.

They actually have a number of videos.  This one is specifically about making Firestorm look like a V1 viewer (they have more that you can look through that can be very helpful)...

...Dres

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I would actually recommend trying the V2 viewer before you decide... you may like it.

if you decide it's not for you, Cool VL has the most familiar UI out of the box, followed by Singularity, and Phoenix... Phoenix however is looking at planned retirement, being replaced by Firestorm, which can be made to bring back most of the V1 UI, but has full compatibility with V2 features.

all of them have their own little special features too... some of which particular users would rather not do without.

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correction, multiples of the SAME layer.... which is only really useful for lots of tattoos that haven't been sold with alternate layers.

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Void Singer wrote:

correction, multiples of the SAME layer.... which is only really useful for lots of tattoos that haven't been sold with alternate layers.

SAME layer, correct. :) Which is useful for a bit more than that, like wearing different makeup tattoos together, different clothing on same layer , etc. :)

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Void Singer wrote:

correction, multiples of the SAME layer.... which is only really useful for lots of tattoos that haven't been sold with alternate layers.

Sorry, Void, but I have to disagree with you there.   I find being able to use multiples of the same layer really useful when putting outfits together.  I like wearing long blouses and shirts, and these never look quite right when made up from a shirt and a pants layer -- they always work better as jackets.  But so do jackets, of course.  

One of my main reasons for switching to V2 was that at last I could wear long shirts and the like with my biker jackets and greatcoats.   It's really extended my wardrobe.

The second reason I like multiples is that I can now buy one base skin, and then mix and match cosmetics, using a tattoo layer for lipstick, another one for eyeshadow, another for for blusher and so on, rather than have to buy -- at considerably greater expense -- several skins identical save for the make up.

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For me it still is and remains 1.23.5. It's fast, easy and fun.

Changes in 2 versioned viewers compared to 1 aren't even worth mentioning. Pheonix is way too complicated and versions i have tried earlier were utterly slow. Moreover, i simply don't ever trust 3rd party viewers. Earlier there was the Emerald debacle i already knew 2 years ahead that it was about to happen, but i was scorned every time i mentioned it. Red and Black... colours are untrustworthy (develish even) and names involved with Pheonix who won't even be open about their real names. Uh huh, i know Pheonix/Firestorm is a cult and used by the mass in sl, but not particular good viewers really.

But what then.

Well viewer 2 is simply loaded with bugs. I have tried it since version 2.4 but i jumped ship 2.6 already since i went from showstopper to showstopper. I did read that LL is in the search of a QA officer. But that is not the solution, it is the new policy set by their latest CEO to get every single new thing out as fast as he can... ending in utter rubbish where 2 hardly has been adopted (by less than 20% of the users i understand).

I keep my 1.23.5 and i would not be worried too much for the coming year.

It has taken years before high quality sculpties were used by the masses and mesh simply will go the same path, it's not for the average user. And what i understood earlier is that Philip Rosedale himself is not too happy with V2 either, the developer who made it left SL and since 3 August the director of engineering left the company too.

LL has totally lost any direction... It's waiting for V3... perhaps, untill that... 1.23.5 for me it is as long as i can for the coming months if not years. Or untill LL gets their act together someday in the near future.

So for me sofar.

V2: Unfit

3rd parties: Unfit

1.23.5: Smiles, Fit

:matte-motes-smitten:

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/me facepalms

Well, i am certainly not a fan of Phoenix, but disregarding a software because it has , and i quote you here,  "untrustworthy (develish even) colors" ?!?

Please, if you like V 1.23.5, fine, but at least TRY to give us normal arguments or facts.

Also, it would be nice if you would at least acknowledge that there has been done a LOT lately (not all of it good, yes) , and a lot of this even positively affects you !! 

 

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I didn't think of the multiple layers because I never think of them lol, I don't use them or need them. Any other little things I missed again may be quite nice to play with but not relevant to the over all inworld experience to me.

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Well, since I much prefer viewers that don't crash or lock up my computer, I'd have to go with Guild Wars.  Tons of users all on at once, and no lag.  Plus the scenery is stunning, and there's no tier!

On the other hand, City of Heroes offers a lot of choices for avatar customization, and the flight keys aren't disabled as they are in the Guild Wars viewer.  Still, a mandatory $15 USD per month tier is a little steep.

The Sims makes an entire suite of viewers and add ons, but this costs a lot of money in the long run (almost as much as a week's worth of tier in SL).  Plus, it's in beta, so you can only use it off-line.

 

:womanvery-happy:

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

I find being able to use multiples of the same layer really useful when putting outfits together.  I like wearing long blouses and shirts, and these never look quite right when made up from a shirt and a pants layer -- they always work better as jackets.  But so do jackets, of course. 

That's what I do too, and I wonder how I managed without. I can now wear long jackets over long sweaters, and I have a tank top under a vee-neck shirt, both on the shirt layer. There's a lot more flexibility now.

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Can you create content in either of those and generate real life income from it? And I don't crash or have computer lock ups with sl either. And I suppose there are people that crash and lock up on those games. Its mostly a computer related problem, not an sl problem.

I really don't think you can compare those games with SL, its a completely different thing in my opinion.

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fair enough, it does get around a few other limitations... I tend to think in terms of problems solved.... it solves the tatto problem (which was a long time complaint with skins needing the old layer). I'm neither a clothes horse nor a fashion plate so I don't really have that issue... then again, only 4 of my dozen or so avs are actually human (ones' just a spiky black cloud)

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Dragolfy Baxter wrote:

I was wondering which viewer is best recomended for an old user like myself. I want to rejoin Second Life with my old account and character, but I saw that the "Viewer 2" thing is much different from the first original viewer from many years ago. Is there a viewer that is similar to the first?

A lot of people are going to say Phoenix or Firestorm, but I strongly suggest avoiding them entirely, given that team's history of trusting folks that they shouldn't to commit code to their production branch.  That alone should make anyone suspicious, since they've been tricked at least twice by the same person now, and sets up a pattern that the same person could be working with that team below board still.  I'd be less suspicious of this if they were as transparent as other open source projects, but they're just not.  Then there's issues for folks who use non-Linden grids:  Phoenix has a nasty tendency of causing your entire inventory to be permanently lost on OpenSimulator-based grids, a bug that is Phoenix and Emerald specific.

That said, I tend to prefer Imprudence and OMVViewer, though I've heard good things about Hippo, Ascent and Kirsten's.  I would take a close look at those five before considering Phoenix.

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Vladi Hazelnut wrote:

 

Can you create content in either of those and generate real life income from it?

The tools are only as good as the craftsman, my friend.

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Linda Brynner wrote:

Red and Black... colours are untrustworthy (develish even)

When arguments againt software are this outlandish, I have to be embarassed for the person speaking.  Sure, I hate the Portland FailBlazers as much as self-respecting Portlander¹, but I hate them because they just about single-handedly keep the cells in the Multnomah County Jail full and only ever win by accident, not because of the team colors.

¹Portlander by birth only; I consider myself a naturalized Tulsan these days, despite being currently stranded in Portland again.  Go 66'ers!

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Void Singer wrote:

I would actually recommend trying the V2 viewer before you decide... you may like it.

No doubt.  The interface seems to be better appreciated by newbies and folks who have done real-world software development on MacOS or Linux than the V1.x interface.  Granted, neither particularly complies closely with the UI guidelines of either of those two platforms, but it's closer to those two than V1.x, which basically took all three supported platforms UI guidelines and threw 'em out the window...

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Baloo Uriza wrote:

That said, I tend to prefer
and
, though I've heard good things about
,
and
.  I would take a close look at those five before considering Phoenix.


Ascent isn't maintained, as far as I know.  However, Singularity is based on it, and is an excellent viewer -- it looks and feels very like Phoenix but is far faster and less buggy, at least on my machine.   It's frequently updated, and should have mesh pretty soon.   

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I've always been with Emerald - then Phoenix. Loved it...no problems...utterly disliked everything about the Viewer2 interface. But then I heard that Phoenix will be coming to an end - and that users should go ahead and start "getting used to" Firestorm. So I download it, only to find it is nearly identical to Viewer2. Following the advice of the developers, I spent a couple of weeks "getting used to it" - mostly editing the interface to make it less like Viewer 2 (not all that successfully, despite what I've heard about THAT), and getting the graphics to look ok.

Well, yesterday I finally got fed up with all the Firestorm bugs and started to look around for what else is available. After coming up short everywhere else, I downloaded Viewer2 again. I figure..if it's gonna look like Viewer2 anyways, why not just go back to the (hopefully less buggy) original?

Here's my take:

-Viewer2 and Firestorm both have the multiple attachment points and multiple LAYERS. After trying this, I can't seem to live without it.

-Both viewers have a Favorites bar for quick TPs to your commonly used sims. Awesome.

-Firestorm is definitely more customizable, and you can dock the nearby chat with group chat windows. Right now that's my main peeve with V2 - why two chat windows?

-Radar in V2 doesn't let you perv, and Firestorm makes it much easier to cam inside objects.

-But V2 is functioning and not crashing...so for now, that wins out over the few extra conveniences Firestorm has. I'm still going back and forth - perhaps Firestorm will fix some more bugs and become my future choice.

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Well... you have to consider that Firestorm is in beta, so there will be bugs.  But the Phoenix devs are mostly concentrating on giving their users a stable experience (which is why they are lagging a bit behind other viewers as far as LL features).  I'm hoping that once they come out with an actual release, things will be much better as far as crashes are concerned, not to mention the LL features that are not available with Firestorm atm.

...Dres

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