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Nacy Nightfire

What's up with jealousy...are some people hard-wired for it?

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"Anything that deviates from the opinion that women in the Western World are still oppressed by men, and that the unequal gender distribution in the upper job levels is only the result of male sexism, is politically incorrect."

I'm pretty secure about my strengths and realistic about my weaknesses.  I don't spend a whole lot of time identifying myself as a woman and men as "other".  I do, however, have a lot of respect for women in history who have sacrificed to get women equal rights to property ownership and inheritance and the vote. 

Now the world is now full of victims...men as victims and women as victims..with all the whining and complaining it's too noisy to sort it all out. 

All I'm concerned about is that girls have an equal shot at education and are given the encouragement and self confidence to pursue whatever field of study they find interesting, be it math, science, education or nursing..whatever.  Eventually the best and brightest, regardless of gender, will rise to the top although it may take a few generations for things to naturally equalize.

As far as you list being justified for concern...well if people are concerned about these issues then their concern is justified.  They might be wrong in their assessment of the situation, however, perhaps magnifying the problem or inflating the issue or just being downright ridiculous.

 

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OceanBird wrote:

I love my quote

" I find people
who make you feel
jealous annoying."

 A more secure person who chooses one lover and straight friends of the same sex for friendships won’t make you feel jealous.

I'll try to explain one more time. 

No one makes you feel jealous.    

IF you feel jealous, that is entirely your own emotional response. It has nothing to do with the other person's actions, because that other person could be doing the exact same behavior, and a person other than yourself, would not "feel" jealous.  So, it's not the actions of another person that is the catalyst here...it is your own mind's reaction

Example: 

1)  Person feels jealous when their partner/spouse has a dinner date with an attractive person that they like. 

2)   Person B does not feel jealous when their partner/spouse has a dinner date with an attractive person that they like.  

So, what's the difference between number one and number two?  

In scenario number one, Person A, feels jealous.   But, the exact same scenario happens in number two...and Person B does not feel jealous.  If, it is the actions of the partner/spouse that cause the jealous feeling, then both Person A and Person B should feel jealous.  

Yet, Person B does not feel jealous, because the actions of the partner/spouse do not make or cause the jealousy.  It is the individual emotional response that is the culprit.  

 

 

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Nacy Nightfire wrote:

I do, however, have a lot of respect for women in history who have sacrificed to get women equal rights to property ownership and inheritance and the vote.... All I'm concerned about is that girls have an equal shot at education and are given the encouragement and self confidence to pursue whatever field of study they find interesting, be it math, science, education or nursing..whatever.  

What is your position concerning the oppression of women under Islam? Are you aware that women in Saudi Arabia are forbidden by law from driving a car or even riding a bicycle? Once the troops withdraw from Afghanistan, it will be business as usual there, which means no school for girls upon penalty of death for teachers that dare oppose the law of no education for females. 

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There’s a problem with your logic here imho.

--------------------------------------------------------

Example:

1) Person A feels jealous when their partner/spouse has a dinner date with an attractive person that they like.

2) Person B does not feel jealous when their partner/spouse has a dinner date with an attractive person that they like.

So, what's the difference between number one and number two?

In scenario number one, Person A, feels jealous. But, the exact same scenario happens in number two...and Person B does not feel jealous.

If, it is the actions of the partner/spouse that cause the jealous feeling, then both Person A and Person B should feel jealous. Yet, Person B does not feel jealous, because the actions of the partner/spouse do not make or cause the jealousy. It is the individual emotional response that is the culprit.

--------------------------------------------------------

Neither person A or B would feel jealous if their partner/spouse never dated other people. So the partner/spouse did create jealousy in 50% of your sample here by their behaviors. I can yell fire in a crowded theater and have 50% believe its real and run out and have the other 50% ignore my yelling and not move. Did I cause the 50% to run out? Of course I did. If I never yelled, none would have run out.

quote :If, it is the actions of the partner/spouse that cause the jealous feeling, then both Person A and Person B should feel jealous.

So my yelling fire did not cause the 50% to run out because everybody should have run out if my yelling was the cause?

Cause and effect is how life works. Jealousy is never created in a vacuum.

The fact that not all respond to the same stimulus in the same way does not mean the reaction is wholly created without cause. All it means is there are variations in response to certain stimuli. Remove the stimuli there is no response.

That reality show the bachelorette just ended and guess what, she picked the guy who was the most jealous of the other guys. What the jealousy showed is he really cared for her while the non-jealous bachelors didn’t care about her.

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OceanBird wrote:

So my yelling fire did not cause the 50% to run out because everybody should have run out if my yelling was the cause?

Cause and effect is how life works. Jealousy is never created in a vacuum.

The fact that not all respond to the same stimulus in the same way does not mean the reaction is wholly created without cause. All it means is there are variations in response to certain stimuli. Remove the stimuli there is no response.

You're parents were the cause. If you're parents had not mated and produced you, you would not have been born and could not have yelled  "fire". Hence your parent were the cause. 

Indeed there is a problem with the logic. It is necessary to distinguish between an ordinary cause and a proximate cause. You're parents were a cause, but you were the proximate cause.

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Another example. You invite two people over for dinner. Guest A hates tomatoes and guest B loves them. You decide to serve tomatoes for dinner and Guest A gets mad and leaves. Did you cause this reaction? Yes, because if you served something else the reaction would not have happened.

But while you are the cause of the negative reaction, what the negative reaction is, is wholly out of your control.

So you may cause a reaction of jealousy by behaviors, but what a person does with that jealousy is up to them. Jealousy is basically a bad feeling that comes from being attached to another human being and being threatened you may lose a part of, or wholly, what you are attached to.

Really the more you are attached to something, the less you want to share it with others. The more fear is involved about losing it. If you don’t have a strong attachment to something, you really don’t care what happens to it.

But yea how jealous a person becomes is based on a lot of factors. Past experience, trust, expectations, desires, etc. It’s a dance between two people.

You do create possible jealousy in another person by giving them something they become attached to. If you never give them something in the first place, they can never be afraid of losing it.

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Disclaimer: A couple of days ago, I hurt my back pretty badly installing my new 25,000 btu window unit, therefore I am heavily medicated atm.  So, when I say that it seems to me a number of people have posted some very bizarre things in this thread, I could be completely wrong.  Also, what I'm about to say is just my personal opinion and may sound as bizarre as how I thought some of the posts here sounded.  You have been warned.

I think jealousy is very closely related to feelings of insecurity, whether it be insecure feelings about yourself or insecure feelings about your relationship with someone else or both.

If you're 100 percent secure in yourself and your relationship, there's simply no reason to be jealous at all.  Jealousy just can't exist without insecurity, which brings me to the next part... can anyone really feel completely secure with themselves and their relationships all the times?  I seriously doubt it.  Does that mean it's hard-wired?  I don't know, but I do believe it's an inevitability.

I don't believe jealousy, in itself, is a bad thing at all... feeling it is just a sign of something not quite right. 

It can come from issues in your relationship or about your partner's behavior and that could be helpful in driving you to address those issues and work them out.  That could entail getting to a place where you're more secure with the relationship and no longer have to feel as jealous about things anymore; or coming to the conclusion that the jealousy and, in turn, the insecurity cannot be overcome and it's time to call it quits.

It can also come from your own feelings of inadequacy and that could be helpful in driving yourself to become a better person.  Of course, some people can't admit to themselves that they have those kinds of feelings at all and that's where jealousy really starts to become a problem.

I do hope this made some sort of sense.

Oh and both my babies are jealous bitches...

Babies.jpg

...Dres

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Unless you've been loved by a dog, you have no concept of what loyalty really means. A dog really defines the word and a dog will really take a bullet for you. You want love for better and for worse, in sickness and health, until death do you part? Get a dog. You want heart break? Get a spouse. You're a lucky man Dres.

ps: Sorry to hear about your back, but when running an SL viewer, it is important to keep your computer cool and prevent it from overheating during higher summer time temperatures. I'm sure your computer appreciates the higher cooling capacity of your new AC unit during the dog days of summer.

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Well yea jealousy can sometimes be a very negative thing. Like the examples cited of the mistress hunting down the spouse. But all of this could be prevented in the first place by the cheating husband.

If the “husband“ explained to the wife and mistress before the relationship started what he would be doing, then all parties could make an intelligent informed decision if they wanted to be involved.

If you don’t want somebody to get jealous, explain up front what you are offering as far as behaviors. Like, “I’m going to run around and be with whoever I want whenever I want. I want to use you to entertain me when no others are available. When they are available, I want you to go away and not bug me.”

That sums up what some people want I think.

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OceanBird wrote:

If you don’t want somebody to get jealous, explain up front what you are offering as far as behaviors. Like, “I’m going to run around and be with whoever I want whenever I want. I want to use you to entertain me when no others are available. When they are available, I want you to go away and not bug me.”

That sums up what some people want I think.

Excellent idea. Before engaging in any sort of romantic activities and/or sex, get a contract signed first, including all pertinent legal releases. Your lover wants to sue because he/she allegedly contracted an STD from you? Article 9, paragraph (a) waives all liability for that...

That's the new way to propose. You don't give your loved one a ring, you give them a pre-nup.

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OceanBird wrote:

Jealousy is never created in a vacuum.


 

Hmm....we're not talking about a physical phenomena.  Jealousy isn't created by an outside stimulus.  It's merely an emotional reaction inside your head.   

 


OceanBird wrote:

 

That reality show the bachelorette just ended and guess what, she picked the guy who was the most jealous of the other guys. What the jealousy showed is he really cared for her while the non-jealous bachelors didn’t care about her.

 

I have no idea what you're referring to.  (TV show?)   If this is your point of reference...then..uh..Sheesh...nevermind.

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Nacy Nightfire wrote:

You wrote:

"The difference is that men are rationally jealous but women are irrationally wired in many of their emotional responses."

and

"Instead I will say again that jealousy is an entirely rational basis for action for most males and an entirely haphazard emotion for females one that I struggle with myself at times although not dictated by the phase of the moon or unavailability of chocolate."

 

This is a very interesting point of view which I've have a hard time pondering without falling off my chair laughing. 

If you are a man, you're either not a  particularly enlightened one  or you are the kind that lives in under a bridge (and, I'm not talking about the homeless here).  If you are a female..well gee. I'm so sorry you think so poorly of yourself and other women.  If your emotions are haphazard and  irrational, I'd be sure to get that checked out if I were you.

How sexist can you get! I offer an opinion that is based on considerable personal experience and self-awareness and the best you can do is accuse me of being a man presumably because you feel I am letting the side down by admitting in public that I consider jealousy a pointless and demeaning emotion in a woman because we generally don't have the means to do anything about our impotent feelings but whinge and sit smouldering making plans that are hardly ever carried out whereas many men not only fess up publicly to their ownership beliefs but use physical aggression to back up their claims. Yes female jealousy is haphazard and irrational because we do not do anything about it mainly because we can not.

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Cato Badger wrote:


Nacy Nightfire wrote:

You wrote:

"The difference is that men are rationally jealous but women are irrationally wired in many of their emotional responses."

and

"Instead I will say again that jealousy is an entirely rational basis for action for most males and an entirely haphazard emotion for females one that I struggle with myself at times although not dictated by the phase of the moon or unavailability of chocolate."

 

This is a very interesting point of view which I've have a hard time pondering without falling off my chair laughing. 

If you are a man, you're either not a  particularly enlightened one  or you are the kind that lives in under a bridge (and, I'm not talking about the homeless here).  If you are a female..well gee. I'm so sorry you think so poorly of yourself and other women.  If your emotions are haphazard and  irrational, I'd be sure to get that checked out if I were you.

How sexist can you get! I offer an opinion that is based on considerable personal experience and self-awareness and the best you can do is accuse me of being a man presumably because you feel I am letting the side down by admitting in public that I consider jealousy a pointless and demeaning emotion in a woman because we generally don't have the means to do anything about our impotent feelings but whinge and sit smouldering making plans that are hardly ever carried out whereas many men not only fess up publicly to their ownership beliefs but use physical aggression to back up their claims. Yes female jealousy is haphazard and irrational because we do not do anything about it mainly because we can not.

Hell hath no fury....

Did women ever persuade men to commit suttee?

Maybe forgive and forget, but that would be difficult for the thoroughly scorned to do.

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"What is your position concerning the oppression of women under Islam? Are you aware that women in Saudi Arabia are forbidden by law from driving a car or even riding a bicycle? Once the troops withdraw from Afghanistan, it will be business as usual there, which means no school for girls upon penalty of death for teachers that dare oppose the law of no education for females."

Obviously this is a rhetorical question.  Unless you really are asking me if I've lived under a rock my entire life.  The world changes slowly and we all want to see it  change in our own short lifetimes.  It ain't gonna happen that fast.  There are realities we must face, such as the pure and evil economic limitations that will prevent us from doing what what we we would like to do to correct these world injustices.  And where do we start?  Human trafficking? (sp?), Drug addiction?  Children starving to death?  Entire populations displaced by natural disasters?  Huge environmental disasters we create ourselves?   Folks dying of aids and malaria?

Despite all the good (and nefarious) intentions of powerful economic forces in their attempts  to right the wrongs of other countries and cultures, its obviously not so simple.  Afghanistan has a very long history of outsiders trying to gain a foothold without success.  So despite the lack of education, personal freedom and basic medical care for women - which is indeed tragic- we have so far proved ourselves unsuccessful in making much impact.   Far better to use education and example. Cellular phones and the internet have made the greatest impact so far in educating oppressed people and empowering them to seek justice for themselves.

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Women are in the work force now and some women are even men's bosses.  A date doesn't always refer to a romantic date; it can refer to a meeting such as a business meeting and not all business meetings are conducted with spouses in tow, neither in RL or SL. 

To go back to the OP again:  SL is a highly creative visual platform, and a highly sexually suggestive one as well.  For people who don't want others to enjoy the art of the sexually provocative avatars in SL might as well put blindfolds on the people sitting in front of the computer screen.  I enjoy the art of the avatars and there's thousands of avatars that are highly artistic (mine is blah and pretty average compared to those that are so highly artistic and we aren't going to see any of those kinds of things in RL), but I see no reason to not let others enjoy the avatars without so much fear of retribution, especially when that is all that they are doing, enjoying the art of the various avatars.   Why so many assume it's sex bed time is beyond me, what if all they want is to enjoy the art of the other avatars and have fun. 

And yes jealousy can be created in your own head as Celestial eluded too.  We do have control over our emotions.  I think jealousy comes from anger, and that anger might not even need to be there at all.  It was created by some insecurity of some sort, as Dres was suggesting. 

To me, someone asking me to enjoy only one avatar my whole SL, would be like asking me to go to a museum and only enjoy or look at one painting the whole time.  There's too much art here to enjoy because people don't really look like that nor wear some of these fantastic fantasy outfits in RL, so this is why I personally would never partner in SL even if I were single in rl.  I just enjoy the art of the avatars too much to be tied to one every single day.  But, then some people would say I probably fall in the Facebook category.  Well, maybe I do to a point, but it's really the art of the avatars that is interesting and exciting, with always something new and creative to look at.  There is a lot of looking in SL, or at least I'd hope so, as some of these avatars are amazingly creative not to mention gorgeous. 

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"I think jealousy is very closely related to feelings of insecurity, whether it be insecure feelings about yourself or insecure feelings about your relationship with someone else or both."

Dresden...you win the virtual gold star.  And here you are trying to claim you are in a drug induced painkiller stupor.  I need those drugs.

You also wrote:

"I don't believe jealousy, in itself, is a bad thing at all... feeling it is just a sign of something not quite right. " 

What might not be quite right is the perceptual faculties of the perceiver...something is often not quite right about the person who is feeling jealous with little rational basis.And an extra gold star for posting a picture of your gorgeous pups.  Here's one of "Monsieur Jalousie":

 

ThePuppyKing.jpg

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You wrote: "Did women ever persuade men to commit suttee?"

No.  But I managed to persuade my husband to take out the trash last night  by tying it up, placing it in his hands, opening the door to the garage, and pointing him in the direction of the trash bins, all the while giving him much praise for his generous deed and his manly heroic efforts. :matte-motes-smile:

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/thinks that I did have something to say.. normally I respond to the forums in the early morning. This is right before second cup of coffe at work.. Perhaps this is wrong place to do this but it seems appt for the subject..

 

Nevermind 

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When I get all jealous & psycho on my SL bf, he thinks it's cute and shows I care!  His words! LOL And I'll admit the first time he showed his jealousy, I was pretty happy - because it meant he cared enough about what I was up to and with whom.  Now if our entire SL was spent being jealous, that would be pointless.  Green isn't a great skin color on anyone. 

I totally believe that you can control jealousy - you CAN control where your thoughts go if you want.  I've made a conscious effort to block out all unhappy thoughts about exes, wannabes etc.  So far, it's working just fine!  And my SLife is MUCH happier.

 

"It's not easy being green" Kermit the Frog

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Without reading too many replies I'm just going to blurt out that no, I don't think jealousy is hardwired in people, I think it stems from a persons insecurity about themselves or their relationship. Some people make it about posession as well, but that also comes from their own insecurity. These kind of things are drama bait in my book, so I choose not to associate with people who show these signs. More than a few times I've basically had to tell someone to either grow a spine or find the door, because I'm here for the positive things and not to prop up another persons personal inadequacies. A little ego-stroking is one thing, but serious confidence issues are things I choose to avoid, and my SL is a much happier one because I do.

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