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Mayalily

Phoenix Viewer So Popular - Problem?

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Phoenix Viewer so popular, it's the one that most seem to have.

Once I downloaded Firestorm, I was able to read which viewers people are using.

At a very busy club I frequent often (however, it's usually so crammed, they need a waiting list.. lol), but anyhow I could not see all the signs as it was so crowded, but here's the score of what I could see:

Phoenix -  19 users

Firestorm - 3 users (including me)

LL V2 - 2 users

Imprudence - 1 user

Today, at another club I visit the score was almost all Phoenix (about 12 users), with me on Firestorm and 2 on LL V2.

Is this going to be a problem or is it a problem already? 

Also, is Phoenix creating any problems for SL users due to the popularity of Phoenix V1?

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well, mesh is already here, that means that in a few weeks phoenix is going to be unable to render the world properly, the devs have been trying to get people to move to firestorm, but i guess viewer 1 fans are going to stick with it as long as they can login.

there would be complains that they cant see the world properly but linden lab and phoenix devs already have a solution for them, if they dont want to use the solution.. oh well..

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Oh, the viewer wars!!  :matte-motes-big-grin:  I remember those.  But, I also remember they weren't very much fun......I mean how thrilling is it to fall in love with a viewer?  If it's functional for what you want or need and you are happy with it use it.  That's what I do and life is so much less complicated than the people who look at who's using what viewer.......isn't that middle school stuff?  :matte-motes-agape:

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This sounds like a good month to take a vacation.  lol

It almost sounds like all hell is going to break loose shortly, maybe so, maybe not. 

I guess we'll have to wait and see how this is going to work out.  

 

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No, when I downloaded Firestorm and used it for the first time, it automatically shows what viewer the user is using.  You don't need any tools or anything; it just shows, and with the overwhelming majority on Phoenix, I was wondering what is going to happen?

Time to take a little vacation, or what?  lol

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I don't care what viewer someone else uses, but I don't mind seeing the name over their head either. It's no different to me than seeing what kind of car someone drives in RL. If they drive the same one as I do, I get a kick out of it, but that doesn't mean I go around laughing at people who drive a different car than I do either.

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I'll stay with Phoenix as long as i can,the one thing i like about Phoenix,other than it simple layout is the Radar , i can see when ayone enteres or leaves my region, i can see where they are ,their age and other things it has to offer

If firestorm had a radar i would use it, as a builder and creator i love the way i can just manually move the inventory. or build in Phoenix

I'll stay with it to the bitter end,i have firestorm and used it a bit but not as keen on it as Phoenix

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Well, maybe we should care because I'm sitting here wondering what is going to happen to all these people? 

Maybe no one really knows yet. 

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Canoro Philipp wrote:

well,
, that means that in a few weeks phoenix is going to be unable to render the world properly [...]

not strictly true... they won't be able to interpret meshes (looks like a bunch of sticks jumbled)... which are still low penetration into the market.... it may be some time before you see one in established araeas that aren't actively replacing content.

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Emerald used to do that too..........I've seen the people who used it and all the other viewers.  It wasn't interesting at all to me.  I don't miss it now either.  I don't laugh at those people but I do when the wars start..........and this one might lead to one.   Then I'll start laughing........just like a couple years ago when Emerald was "the viewer" to use.  :matte-motes-big-grin-squint:

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Nothings going to happen, people will switch or they won't. Just like when Emerald stopped working we switched to phoenix, now we switch to firestorm.

The sky is not falling, some of us just wanted to get used to Firestorm so when it does change we are ready.

It will all work out, even if phoenix users are kicking and screaming.

Personally, I'm glad we have another option fron LLv2. I doubt I would use that at all.

/me shivers

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I felt like IMing some people today, but didn't have the courage, as I'm sitting here wondering if they even know with so many users on Phoenix.  I have an older build with XP and I've run LL V2 since beginning in March of this year, but my older build, of course, has not experienced mesh yet either.  I installed Firestorm last week, and it's pretty good also, and when I installed Firestorm, it reads username along with which viewer they are using; overwhelming I've seen so far -- Phoenix, and I'm wondering why?  This is new to me to be able to read which viewers people are using as I've been mostly on LL V2 since March of this year.  But I also wonder why the extreme resistance?  Is is comfort, or as one user said -- radar?  Aren't there other ways to get radar? 

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it's feature, function and use.... and very area dependent.

people use (and will continue to) what works for them... whether it's certain features, different ui, bug fixes, compatibility with their system, etc... doesn't matter really.

I wouldn't worry about any of them right now.... if they can and need to, users can change viewers at the drop of a hat... form the phoenix users I've talked to, many to most seem to be waiting for firestorm to get their favorite goodies installed before switching. a few can't, and will likely port over to Cool or Singularity for access to mesh, but even if they don't it may be a little while before mesh gets enough market penetration for it to really matter to them, so they've got some time.

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No, I don't think so, as from what I've read this mesh thing is new technology.  But do I really know anything about mesh?  No, not really.  Not much at all.  However, there are lots of threads and topics and blogs for me to read about mesh. 

I'm kind of excited, and kind of a little scared in all honesty as I don't actually understand it myself, but I am a little excited to find out what is when I first get to experience it. 

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Oh, well, I'm glad they've got some time, Void.  That's good, as I'm thinking it's soon or any day now.  I was thinking a couple of weeks, like Canoro. 

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You don't really need to know anything about mesh except that it requires server code to deliver it and viewer code to see it.  Both those code updates will put the lesser powered (and probably some of the older) machines under some additional strain.  As far was what someone will see when viewing a mesh build I have to take Void's word for it.......she has more experience in 3D modeling than I (hell, most anyone has more experience than I in 3D modeling).  I imagine it will be similar to what happened to people when sculpties were introduced and they saw the default sculptie apple shape instead of whatever the sculptie was meant to represent (the slower or weaker systems will be slow to rezz those objects).  That's mostly a guess on my part and I really don't think mesh objects will be much more a load than sculpties on machines............but some, inevitibly will have trouble with their video cards, drivers, or their computers.

 

I'm also with Void on this won't be an overnight transformattion.  To make a mesh object requires a bit more than making sculpties and a whole lot more than making a texture in Photoshop or GIMP.  It's full fledged 3D modeling and I've tried my hand at it..........it's not something everyone will pick up on without some form of formal training. 

 

The folks who resist moving to a viewer capable of viewing mesh objects are, eventually, going to left standing on the side of the road watching the world leave them in the dust.  That's really going to be an eyeopener for those people when full rigged mesh avatars start to be popular..........they simply won't see those avatars like they are meant to be seen (a pile of sticks, like Void said?).  It won't happen overnight like flexible paths did a few years ago.........it won't even happen like when sculpties were introduced either (that took several months to get popular).  But it will happen.

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Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

[...] As far was what someone will see when viewing a mesh build I have to take Void's word for it.....[...]

aw heck don't take my word for it, drop by a region you know has meshes in it (like the mesh user group meeting area) with any pre mesh viewer... it's not much to see really. you'll know they're there, and it's not as bad as the vertex vomit you get from applying photos as sculpt maps thankfully....

and sticks isn't the only thing you'll see... floating flat faces is another, depending on how it's put together, there's a pic of this on the wiki for comparison

ETA:

I expect vehicles to be the first common market to see lots of mesh content (because it's the largest leap foward past current limits, plus I expect this to be the first flood of pirated content)... then plants, furniture, avatar accesories (mostly weapons at first), then the housing market....

notice I left out avatars? yeah, that's because any custom avatars are going to be unique, and most accessories will have to be fitted to that specific model, plus they are high cost and the most complicated. Avatars will also be a huge target for pirated content.

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Well, I'm nervous and excited at the same time, Peggy.  I can't wait to see it.  Maybe people are giving Phoenix it's last hurrah?

I hope my computer can handle it.  It's not up to me; it's up to my computer.  But in the meanwhile, I could at least clean out the dust from this old piece of junk and perhaps run the disk cleanup again. 

I think a new build is a better investment than refurbishing a nearly 7 year old build. 

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hmmm interesting... it looks like using certain techniques more similar to sculpt making that some sensible fallback shapes may be possible, at least closer to the volume bounding box anyways.

thanks for noting the continuing support for phoenix too, it's nice to see they are keeping up with the patches and available backports (like the animation crasher, which was noted a week or so ago)

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Mayalilly I really wouldn't stress over any of this. Despite what some would have you believe Mesh isn't going to take over the world overnight (I was here when sculpties arrived and that transition took months) and the Phoenix devs aren't going to wave a wand and make it disappear the day after mesh comes to the whole grid.

The bottom line is that people will either make the switch to something v2-based when they feel the time is right or, if for whatever reason they can't, they'll leave. Keep in mind that some people like me have continued using LL 1.23 or Snowglobe (the Lab's original open source viewer that Phoenix, Imprudence and others are based on) even though they can't render display names, alpha layers, media on a prim, etc. Not seeing any of that stuff doesn't affect my daily SL in the least. I use it because it's fast, familiar and stable even though my computer's capable of running v2.

When I decide that I'm missing out on things that matter to me and it appears that the technology is stable then I'll move to Firestorm. I certainly won't be making that decision based on FUD or hyperbole being spread by some chattering head LL fanboy/girl on a forum.

(P.S. I went to a mesh sandbox using Firestorm just to see how mesh stuff appears on a non-mesh viewer and the mesh items looked like un rezzed sculpties, that is blobs. Meh, whatever. I can live with that for now.)

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I picked up a free Mesh dress & mermaid tail at Curious Kitties & took pictures in front of their vendors. The pictures in back show how the items are supposed to look. My girl in front shows how they look on Phoenix.

Snapshot_009.png

Snapshot_010.png

 Edit to add:

Given that most SL users are currently using Phoenix & Mesh is not going to be an easy technique for most creators to master, i don't think anyone needs to worry yet that the whole world is going to look like boxes & blobs without a Mesh enabled viewer anytime soon.  Over the next few monthes those of us with V1- based viewers will gradually see more & more odd boxes & blobs. Those who are willing & able to will migrate to V2, Firestorm or another Mesh-enabled viewer. Then I suspect as the ratio of Mesh-enabled viewers increases, creators will also gradually make more Mesh items. - It's going to be a gradual process, so don't worry.

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What are mesh items?  And I think Peggy mentioned mesh avatars of some sort?

Are we going to lose our wardrobe if they don't have mesh items in them?

Are we going to lose our avatars if they don't have mesh items in them, or is that something farther off in the future?  Where we can have a mesh avatar some day off in the future, or what exactly? 

I'd hate to lose my avatar and my wardrobe. 

*gulp* nobodies answering.  I hope we don't lose our wardrobe?  That can't be, can it? 

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I use viewer 2 and i cant see mesh yet. They put a whole load of mesh items down in katrina sim and they looked like blocky messes to me (

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