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Dresden Ceriano

Where am I suppose to fit in?

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any relationship is about acceptance and compromise.... but it all has limits... the trick is to find people who's acceptance overlaps with your willingness to compromise (and vice versa)...

it sounds like their limits may not match yours, and if I had to guess their's are much narrower. Try to talk it out, see if it's workable, if not you'll both be happier finding people that you are freer to be yourselves around. well unless you're both conflict junkies too, in which case, you may have found a never ending supply.

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I never fit in... Someone used to tell me before that I have to join this group and that group and why I haven't been to this person's gig and why am I not interested in going to that hangout... meh.... I never liked being 'fitted' in. Why? It is boring.

Once you are in a group you loose your personality and the only people who will notice your individuality are the people in the group itself. I prefer to be a person of my own. I like sitting on a fence. I like to respond with my own mind and feelings and not because the group I'm in felt like so. When you start reflecting the reaction of your 'fitted' group, this is when the herding mentality starts and you won't even notice it. Notice how a group dress alike?

I think it takes courage to be on your own and off from the in-crowd. There will be a level of discrimination and people avoiding you, no doubt. I'm going to be really harsh here, Dres and it is not meant to hurt your feelings or anyone, just stating the obvious. You would think gays would be more accepting of your behaviour, personality and sense of style... think again... even gays are hypocrites at many levels.  If you feel lonely and fear of losing your SL interest by being shunned for the way you dress then I suggest you better of dressing "just like them". This may not be the best solution but it is the most practical in a bubble bursting sort of way. 

This not to say that you should start being an anti-social. God, NO! They're the worst kind if you ask my opinion. I need friends, I love having friends... and I love all the friends I have right now. But I do not let them overstep their lines nor do I force them to see my way. I have become more selective with my friends and I treasure those who accepts my quirkiness. Do I feel lonely at times? Yes, definitely but then again there is nothing worse than being 'fitted in' and still feeling out-of-place.

BTW: This week with me in my "lady ghost' attire that I've worn for almost 2 weeks now and a tiny that I met at Goguen.

God Emerald @ goguen_004.jpg

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Gosh Dresden, don't let the "fitting in" thing worry you in the slightest! First, there ain't no such thing as "fitting in" when you're talking about a virtual world with virtual avatars. Almost by definition, the endless flexibility of the primmy universe makes it impossible to establish any sense of "normality," ergo everything is pretty much abnormal by default. If that's the case, then there's nothing concrete enough to fit into. We puppeteers who pull the avatarial strings are always reinventing ourselves. Why do you think there are so many threads that talk about deception, uncertainty, and betrayal? Because there is no certainty in SL and that's just the way it is.

So just be what you want, do what you want, but just remember to be most excellent to each other. Mmh, did I make that one up??

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/me hugs Dres and offers him a cool and wild Eshi outfit .. seriously, that guy was NWYT [not worth your time] with no sense of drama or compassion he was a loser. Have fun, dress to please you and mind your heart;;-)

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How many different people are each one of us?  You could be a son, a brother, a friend, a coworker, a nephew, an uncle, a soccer player, a partier, a dufus, mature, immature, a neighbor, an acquaintance, a stranger, a confidant, a lover...  The list goes on forever and is constantly being added to everyday.  Are you the same person in each one of these relationships?  Are you the same as a son as you are to a stranger?  Do you have the exact same role as an uncle that you do as a partier? Do you treat that person you have business dealings with the same as you treat your best friend?

All those different things/styles you like are just fine and make you a more interesting person to know.  Just be yourself and each part of you will find a place to fit in.  If you are very, very lucky, you may even find the person that accepts all your roles.  Just take everybody as they come to you and know that they have a story.  Just like you have a story.  I wish you luck - never give up!!!

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NicholasKulp wrote:

Yall are gay... and the second one is the one that looks gay.  Why would that scare him?  Unless he's straight.

Because the second one looks like Freddy Mercury. The first looks more like a 'RL gay' male - which basically looks like a RL straight male. Except in the gay community, making oneself look more appealing as an ideal 'masculine look' is idealized; an Adonis look. This is also true among many straight men.

If that confused you, its because you're still paying attention to Hollywood stereotypes about gays.

 

As to the OP - I can relate to your dilemma on many levels. Being interracial, having a genius level intelligence, and having an advanced degree despite coming from the inner city all work to make me always 'odd' and out of sync with others.

In SL, there seems to be an amazing pressure to be a 20's Caucasian dressed in 1980s to early 90s trends. Anyone else is going to face some level of ostracism. SL is a very visual medium, populated by people who make very quick and often strong judgements based on cartoon character appearance.

 

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:


NicholasKulp wrote:

Yall are gay... and the second one is the one that looks gay.  Why would that scare him?  Unless he's straight.

Because the second one looks like Freddy Mercury. The first looks more like a 'RL gay' male - which basically looks like a RL straight male. Except in the gay community, making oneself look more appealing as an ideal 'masculine look' is idealized; an Adonis look. This is also true among many straight men.

If that confused you, its because you're still paying attention to Hollywood stereotypes about gays.

 

As to the OP - I can relate to your dilemma on many levels. Being interracial, having a genius level intelligence, and having an advanced degree despite coming from the inner city all work to make me always 'odd' and out of sync with others.

In SL, there seems to be an amazing pressure to be a 20's Caucasian dressed in 1980s to early 90s trends. Anyone else is going to face some level of ostracism. SL is a very visual medium, populated by people who make very quick and often strong judgements based on cartoon character appearance.

 

it all seems rather peculier, the OP is so hell bent on making sure everyone knows hes gay and then appeals that hes misunderstood and doesnt fit in.

i have news for you, most of the world isnt gay.

just chill out a bit Dresden.

i went to amsterdam with a gay friend, first thing he did was went to the sex shops and bought what i thought was just pure trashy gay porn. he was obessed with gross explicit gay porn.

my nephew is openly gay , he likes to go to club toilets and entertain strangers.

i have my own sexual preferences but i don't go telling everyone about them, only my partner who it actually matters to.

 

pussycat.

i hardly think you are a genius.  its the soccer mom complex again, seems your degree has gone to an advanced degree in just under a week.

avatars are simply not detailed enough, you cant choose a 60 year old, same as you cant choose a 20 year old cat.

its all stereotypes.

im a no nonsense person, dont need a cat suit to impress people, i can do that anyway.

 

 

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Being brutally honest from one gay man to another - you hit the nail on the head, your putting way too much pressure on yourself - it might not be the look people find unattractive but the fact you have a massive guard up. 

I wish I could advise you on how to lower guards we can all advise you to say "**** it" carry on and ignore the people who dont accept you but its not something we uas as people cant do so easily with internal feelings and beliefs about ourselves getting in the way....

BTW your clothes arent bad in fact its a pretty well constructed outfit.....Ive actually seen alot worse and total messes..... in fact if i saw you id be like omg where did u get those from i want them!

 He laughed but its a gesture with a trigger word - he probably didnt mean anything bad by it...he prob didnt contact you again cos you got so defensive and acted OTT... I know i would run a mile if you got uptight over that it screams drama to me......as for fitting in well if you relaxed a bit you'd fit in - drop your guard and just be yourself - ths issues isnt how you look in my opinion its how you percieve others interacting with you.

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I hate when a woman asks me "Is it in yet?"

 

 

 

/me runs and cries

//not really

///just my silly sense of humor

////slashies are fun

 

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You're very right, I do put up a massive guard and it's not easy to just let it go... even just trying to sometimes takes a lot of effort.  That is one of the main reasons why I posted this, in hopes of getting a little feedback that will drive me into doing something about it at a time that I'm feeling really stuck.

I will say that the guy absolutely meant to play that gesture and though I may have gotten a bit defensive, I did not act OTT about it.  I didn't get angry or throw a fit... I merely stated that it kind of hurt my feelings, changed into something else and we went on with our evening.  Maybe even that wasn't the right way to handle it, but I do tend to be very honest about what I'm feeling.

I also don't think that he's a bad guy at all, as some have suggested, and in no way did I mean to infer that he was... just wanted to make that clear.  I was only using that as an example of the kind of reaction I usually get from guys that expect me to "dress the part", or at least seem disappointed to learn that is not always my inclination. 

Perhaps it is an issue of my perception of other people's reaction, but I think I've come to that perception honestly... through years of conditioning. Also, I tend to over analyze things... can you tell? Just one more thing I need to slack up on a bit.

On a side note, this issue has only popped up again for me because LL decided to make it possible to wear multiple tattoo layers, in turn, making it possible for me to wear all this fabulous makeup.  So once again, it's all LL's fault... lol.

@Everyone: Thank you all for your incredibly helpful and uplifting replies... all have been read, much appreciated and taken into consideration (even the ones that have mysteriously disappeared).

@Phoebe: I will be checking out your club very soon, thank you.

...Dres

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Perrie Juran wrote:

I hate when a woman asks me "Is it in yet?"

 

 

 

/me runs and cries

//not really

///just my silly sense of humor

////slashies are fun

Awww, I'd love to tell you I know how that feels, but unfortunately, that's not a problem I can relate to in any way... lol.

/////you're right, they are

//////especially in italics

...Dres

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Just be, look, dress ..... whatever you want to be Dresden and kick those guards immediately out  ...... I am a Vagi-terian in both lifes and I love my life!!!!!!! :matte-motes-inlove: *meows*

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Several people on this thread have made comments like "you dress gay," or "you're both gay, so what's the problem?"

I seriously doubt you'd say to a hetero couple, " You dress heterosexual," or "You're both heterosexual, so what's the problem?"

I think the people posting such statements show a failure of being able to think outside of serriously limited boxes. Your idea of the  "Openly Gay" box" doesn't fit every gay man, not even close.  It's a stereotype that some gay men put themselves into at some times, probably so they'll "fit in" with the perceived expectation of a group of people they want to fit in with.  I expect it's like trying to fit into the "Good Christian" box or the "Responsible Professional" box.

Evey single one of us is unique, with varried interests & tastes.  If you want to be acepted by other people, you make some effort to "fit in" with those people, but you should never give up your individual spirit to do so.

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Most people's sexuality is automatically assumed to be heterosexual simply because it's more common than not.  Making it unnecessary to state.  Other people with varying other sexual preferences don't have it that way. 

I feel it would have been disingenuous of me to post about this issue without stating where I'm coming from for clarity.  It's simply part of who I am that, in this instance, mattered... if it didn't, I would have no reason to state it and I wouldn't have.  Nothing more, nothing less.

...Dres

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I wasn't implying that your sexuality didn't matter to the post.  I just don't think people should be expected to fit into stereotypes in SL.  You can wear a business suit one minute, fishnet the next, & be a dragon the next.  Anyone who really likes you & cares about you, shouldn't care about your outward SL appearance.  My boyfriend usually goes for a dark, gothic look in SL because he can't dress like that in RL, but he also likes being a dragon or shadowling sometimes, & occasionally runs through a string of silly or superhero avatars when he's in a weird mood.

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Persephone Emerald wrote:

I wasn't implying that your sexuality didn't matter to the post.  I just don't think people should be expected to fit into stereotypes in SL.  You can wear a business suit one minute, fishnet the next, & be a dragon the next.  Anyone who really likes you & cares about you, shouldn't care about your outward SL appearance.  My boyfriend usually goes for a dark, gothic look in SL because he can't dress like that in RL, but he also likes being a dragon or shadowling sometimes, & occasionally runs through a string of silly or superhero avatars when he's in a weird mood.

Dresden is openly gay and states he had problems "fitting in".

my point is that to openly declare your sexuality everywhere will make you an outsider automatically.

the emphasis is on his sexuality rather than himself.

thats how the world is, people are not really interested in others sexuality unless its important to them.

my advice? don't tell them unless they ask.

 

 

 

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What does dressing the part mean for a gay man tho?  Aren't you allowed to be yourself? 

I didn't think those men I dated who put down my clothes as particularly good people, but more control freaks and narrow-minded, stuffy, and people who do not understand art. 

And I really didn't want some narrow minded control freak, nor am I in all honesty attracted to narrow-minded people. Nor am I attracted to people who do not understand art.  Fashion is a part of art to me, and a huge reason a lot of us flock here is because of the way we can dress in SL where we can't in RL (speaking of types of fashion they don't make in RL). 

I also put in the Google search bar:  should we dress to please others (of course we don't wear bikinis to funerals in RL for an example) but as long as you are clothed, you are clothed. 

I'd rather be with someone creative than stuffy.  Stuffy I get bored with in about a day. 

Anyhow, did a Google search for you and found this website.  One poster said people will label us into something almost directly upon meeting them by the way we dress.  But this is an example for rl, not SL.  Fashion fun is a huge part of SL to me. 

Anyhow, one website link about whether we should dress to please others I'll post below.  I'm sure you could do more research on this to find some kind of happy medium within yourself.  The most important to dressing in RL tho is to get a job and meet a goal.  Dating could also include meeting a goal.  So perhaps trying to figure out what qualities you are looking for in person would help you out if you wrote them down as dating is about finding that someone that has qualities you really desire in a person. 

Here's the link:  Not a great link, but just an example of some websites you might want to try to search on Google about dressing to please others, yet I still think you might find some answers if you search within yourself the qualities you yourself are truly seeking in another. 

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110216095529AAY6GCf

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NicholasKulp wrote:

Yall are gay... and the second one is the one that looks gay.  Why would that scare him?  Unless he's straight.

It shouldn't scare him then either. Frankly, the idea some men seem to have of being an at-risk, sexual magnet is greatly exaggerated. Simply put, stop worrying they don't want you that badly.

These pix do not look gay to me. The second pic looks glam. There was a very popular glam club in L.A. around the turn of this century. Straight men, straight women, and the men made out like bandits in a treasury. 

Not all women are into lumberjack shirts. (Nothing wrong with those either.)

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Dogboat Taurog wrote:


Pussycat Catnap wrote:


pussycat.

i hardly think you are a genius.  its the soccer mom complex again, seems your degree has gone to an advanced degree in just under a week.


Think what you want, I was tested as a child - as part of an attempt to move me out of a class with white kids and put me where the blacks and hispanics were placed to 'help them' - but they mistook my reclusive quiet nature for 'special needs' so went the testing route to make it official, and had to give my parents a written apology at the end of it. So I got to endure being the only non-white in 'gate' with teachers that would just glare at me until we moved back to the San Francisco area which, while still using 'special needs' as a trick to cull-out some minorities, does so less often with each passing year (though during a short stint working in the public schools I had to speak out for 2 African and 1 Latino boys who were getting tracked despite brilliant minds).

 

And 'soccar mom'? Please... you know know **bleep** about me, so get off that angle. That's about as far from me as a person could get. The thing about intelligence is that beyond a certain point - it becomes a very alienating trait, and by the numbers I am just over the line for where that tends to fall. Not in the realm of one of the mega-geniuses by any stretch of the imagination - but up high enough that socialization suffers.

 

Nice one there getting on Dresden with the 'your gay so deal with being **bleep** on' comment... Dresden should not have to suffer the likes of you anymore than the rest of us should.

 As a minority I've had my share of that tossed my way. And its why I was hyper-violent until my late teens. The idea that those who stand out should have to just 'deal with the way the world is' is abhorrent and evil. The answer to that is 'change'. Change the world - by whatever means necessary. Take away my MLK and I'll come at you with an X, but if we work together, we can get an O. ;)

 

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Think about it for a second, if you are queer*, and interested in relationships, or want to eliminate people that have an issue with that, why wouldn't you state it? Sure if it's the default and you don't care, then it's not necessary, but when you are in any minorty of the population it starts to become an important point... and that one facet is VERY important in dating... what you're suggesting would be akin to NASA advertising for astronauts with a "help wanted" sign.

 

@general noise of "any other queer* person will do":
No, no no nonononono. just like any relationship with another human, there are people that may have that one fact in common, but are utterly repulsive to each other in many more. It's the same as saying "you're a human, <insert name of leperous, massmurding, psychopath here> is a human, that should be good enough"

 

*(my word, applied to myself, and those who welcome it. If you object to it, please feel free to replace it with any politically correct synonym you like. It's called context, please learn it.)



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You know the more I think about this Dres and the men I dated who put down my style of dress but kept calling me, that's being abusive and almost a schizo-affective behavior; that's why I knew they were weird; they were abusive.  They had a negative attitude that was abusive, but yet they still kept calling?  Drop this person like a dead rat, they could end being an abusive type of person.  Think about that for awhile because you really don't want to end up with some control freak who turns into an abuser do you?  Get rid of him unless he apologies and stops acting in an abusive manner.  Be wary of control freaks because control freaks are often abusive people and that can get really bad in RL.  If he acts in any way abusive again; he's an abuser, and you need to get out immediately.  Watch his patterns very carefully. 

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Void Singer wrote:


Dogboat Taurog wrote:

but what if dresden goes to a group in SL. for example an acting group.

 but the OP wasn't about joining an acting group, it was about the queer community, and more specifically about someone he was seeing. did you actually read it all the way through?

oh i know, that was just an example, the point i was trying to make was that is sexuality should not be the be all and end all of his lifestyle.

there are equally  overbearing males and females in straight relationships.

where does he fit in?

nowhere if he continually places his sexuality above everything else.

 

 

 

 

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assuming the same set of circumstances outside of the topic, sure. but it doesn't answer the question at hand.

if you'd suggested that Dresden might be a little too fragile, I might have agreed (sorry Dres, you seem little emo, not that it's bad, but you have to learn a method to cope with it if you are)

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