Madeliefste Oh Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 The customers of my sculpty business are mainly builders and creators. They use my products in their own creations. Sometimes just as a prop with little to no changes to the orginal and sometimes in a very surprising creative way.The sculpty maps we provide are full perms. We don't put them on 'no mod' to prevend downloading the sculpt map to our customers own computer. The reason we do so is that it gives our costumer freedom to work with the sculpt model in a way it suits him. We have the idea that most of our costumers only use the Photofiles to create their own textures, but we still want to give the minority that prefers to work with 3D painting the possibility to do so.With mesh coming up, we won't change the character of cYo. We will still be a sculpty shop, but besides we are going to offer meshes. Meshes that are customizable, just like our sculpts. But with meshes we cannot give creators the freedom to download the mesh to their own computer, because you cannot download a mesh from SL. Now I would like to know from builders and creators when a business like mine offers meshes that can be textured by you, is it important to you to be able to buy the model itself? Or will a texture template for the mesh do? I mean a texture template like used in clothing design, provided by Chip Midnight or Robin Wood, but then not from the avatar body, but from the 3 model, the mesh.Who of you is actually working with painting directly on the avatar or directly on sculpty models? And who of you is doing really fine with templates?I try to get a picture if there is a need among SL creators for having the actual mesh model available outside SL or not.Feel free to contribute whatever you think about this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralph Alderton Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Well actually I don't want full perm meshes being served at all. Full perm mesh should be banned. Full perm sculpties should be banned. Full perm sculpties and mesh are bad for the ecosystem and the economy don't ya know. Madeliefste, you'd make more money and contribute more to the economy and the community by making unique products yourself instead of undermining your own skills and enabling people to overwhelm the marketplace with the same old re-textured, regurgitated products. The marketplace is already overwhelmed by a SUPERABUNDANCE of samey, samey products. SL needs more original, unique creators who value their own work and skills and do not sell it full perm The only things that should be full perm are scripts and textures NOTE that NO 3D mesh artists in RL sells their content with full permissions. And NO 3D artist in RL would sell their mesh content with permissions to create and sell derivative works of the original model. If you're a mesh artists, just say NO to full perm mesh, it's the road to diminishing returns. Don't sell yourself cheap by making full perm mesh. Make your own unique products, make more money and protect your hard earned skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalates Urriah Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 I have traded some sculpty books with friends and provided the template used so they could retexture the books. That seemed to work well. I suspect there will be a number of people that will want Mesh Objects without the 3D model. Texture templates will probably work for them. For those that want the 3D model to work with, there are a number of sites that allow poeple to sell their models. Perhaps selling the templates in SL and refering them to a model site or having a site of your own would work. Some have considered placing the DAE file in a note card as a way to sell the 3D Model. Since the DAE file is an XML file that is possible. The limit is the size of a note card, 64k. That is a significant restriction. Only small and not too complex models can be defined by a 64k file. As to how many people will want the 3D model and template or just the in-world object and a template... I would assume that a majority of your sculpty customers will also be interested in the in-world mesh objects with UV templates. I have no idea how you wll get predictive market data for what people will want. I susppose you'll just have try it and see what works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mylar Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 ralph Alderton wrote: Well actually I don't want full perm meshes being served at all. Full perm mesh should be banned. Full perm sculpties should be banned. Full perm sculpties and mesh are bad for the ecosystem and the economy don't ya know. Madeliefste, you'd make more money and contribute more to the economy and the community by making unique products yourself instead of undermining your own skills and enabling people to overwhelm the marketplace with the same old re-textured, regurgitated products. The marketplace is already overwhelmed by a SUPERABUNDANCE of samey, samey products. SL needs more original, unique creators who value their own work and skills and do not sell it full perm The only things that should be full perm are scripts and textures NOTE that NO 3D mesh artists in RL sells their content with full permissions. And NO 3D artist in RL would sell their mesh content with permissions to create and sell derivative works of the original model. If you're a mesh artists, just say NO to full perm mesh, it's the road to diminishing returns. Don't sell yourself cheap by making full perm mesh. Make your own unique products, make more money and protect your hard earned skills. I absolutely agree with this sentiment. I'm finding it very difficult to compete with the dozens of shops out there that can fill a region with stuff they bought full perm in the time it takes me to build one item. My business partner and I have a joke about "that chair", which every furniture store in SL is selling (Here's one). This is from one of a bunch of sets of full perm furniture you can get for 199 L$. As to the question, sell two versions: one with just the texture map, and one with the DAE file in a notecard, as someone suggested, but charge more for that one. That way only people who need the 3D model will actually buy that version, and you can get an idea of how many of your customers want the model included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Glad to hear you are going to offer these - love your stuff! I have no tech lingo to ask correctly, but it seems that a mesh object has to be textured before bringing into SL? like with a program? which programs? That would be 1st question. Will you be sending the mesh object via email or something? after we purchase it? it sounds like you can't do that. When we bring it inworld - will we need to be one of those who took that test thing to bring mesh in? I can't ask the questions with the right wording, but I do know how to make things - not sure how I figured that out! I'm not sure about textured templates - prefer to do those myself, I think. Otherwise your object is going to look like everyone else's. Plus, whole point is to design with your own textures. But with mesh, it appears to be more complicated than just slapping on a texture. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mylar Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 mesh designers can provide a UVW map, which is a projection of how the texture will be applied to the mesh. Industrious designers could even label the UVW map with which sections map to what parts of the mesh. If the mesh is unwrapped correctly it would be easy to create a texture for it, since there wouldn't be any weird stretching like you get with a lot of sculpties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Good grief, Ralph! Who are you tell someone who has a fantastically marketed niche and offers a valuable service that they are not contributing to the economy or the community? Get a grip, dude. Madeliefste is my idol on proper marketing! I purchase sculpties all the time to use in products. Will assume others do. It's like going to the unfinished wood store in physical world and purchasing an unfinished wood cabinet, then getting out your paints or stains and creating your own piece. Or like a seamstress purchasing a bolt of fabric, then creating a dress. No reason someone has to learn woodworking or fabric weaving in order to make something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Thanks for explanation, Mylar. Sounds doable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madeliefste Oh Posted July 30, 2011 Author Share Posted July 30, 2011 Here is an example to show a mesh template. In mesh land they are not called templates but UV maps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 on the floral pattern....we could make our own pattern right? These might sound like stupid questions, but.... would we need to take that mesh object to a program like Blender to apply our own pattern? because Blender is scary. or could we do our own floral pattern in Gimp - then apply it with another program? do we do all that before bringing inworld? do the pieces of the Fan have to be put together in a program before bringing inworld? on the shadowing...is that a separate function that you add on top of your rose fabric? or do you need to make your rose fabric already have the shadows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mylar Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 You would be given the image on the right of the sample above, and take that into GIMP, and paint within the lines basically, then bring the image back into SL and just slap it on the mesh. :matte-motes-big-grin: ETA: only the part of the texture inside the lines would show on the mesh, the rest would be hidden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Fantastic! thanks, Mylar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralph Alderton Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Good grief Mickey, open your eyes ! You are quite right, Madeliefste is a master of marketing, this thread being a testament to her remarkable marketing skills, since it's all about her business and what she will do when mesh comes. The full perm market is nothing like buying a bolt of fabric and making a dress, it's like buying a already made dress and just dying it a different colour and you have an endless supply of them and you can dye them a myriad of colours and put them on the marketplace for 10L$, undercutting and price dumping and eroding the market for original and talented creators who work from scratch and have to charge accordingly The full perm market creates irresponsible creators who didn't create the content in the first place so do not value the work that goes in to creating. Basically, the full perm market is a type of PYRAMID SCHEME and a perfect example of diminishing returns it devalues all virtual goods in the process Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 You should start another thread for that, because this ain't the thread. You are way off topic. You start another thread, and I'll give you an earful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralph Alderton Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 What we actually need are new permissions, derivative perms or royalty perms. Full perms are sick and unhealthy perms. Full perms are a kind of economic insanity specific to SL. Creators shouldn't sell themselves short Creators should value their own work and the time it took develop the skills If you as a creator don't value your own work, who will If you are a mesh artists and creator, say no to full perm mesh. You'll make more money by keeping your content exclusive to your shop. But if you want to your products to make less and less money over time and produce products that have a very short shelf life, go ahead and make full perm stuff, undermine the marketplace, encourage price dumping and generally wreck the marketplace with hundreds of re-textured, samey, samey, spam products Just say no to full perms, value your own work guys and gals. You'll make far more money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madeliefste Oh Posted July 30, 2011 Author Share Posted July 30, 2011 The only stupid questions are the questions not asked. The blanc model you see on top is the actual mesh model. The textured ones with the flowers is an example of how it possibibly can be textured. Now for example when you make a flamingo dancing dress you can combine it with a fan that perfectly fits the design of your dress. To create this fan you use the mesh template.The template is ment to be worked on in Photoshop or Gimp or such a program. So far you don't need any model to take outsite SL. Now this example is maybe not the best example to show why people still might need models to work on. Cause the design of this meshs is rather flat. You can easily imagen how the pattern of the UV map fits the mesh in SL.But when you have a more complicated model with many seams, like for example a mesh jacket. You can texture a mesh jacket also with help of the UV map. But there are also people who work in programs like Photoshop Extended to paint on models, because this makes is much easier to texture the seams. Now that is what my question is about. Do creators feel the need to work on models in 3d paint programs, or are they perfectly fine with templates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralph Alderton Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Hey Mickey, Not off topic, right on topic ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mylar Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 If you've done any clothing at all in SL, you've already worked with a UVW map, i.e. this one. The concept is the same. Madeliefste, think about who your market is. If you're selling accessories to designers to be used in their own creations, then you're dealing with people who already have some experience working with UV maps in photoshop or gimp, so providing a UV map may just be sufficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralph Alderton Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Here's a question that's rarely asked : Are full perm sculpties and mesh good or bad for the virtual ecosystem ? They are bad as they create diminishing returns for the creator first and they flood the market with unoriginal clutter and samey sameness . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madeliefste Oh Posted July 30, 2011 Author Share Posted July 30, 2011 ralph Alderton wrote: If you are a mesh artists and creator, say no to full perm mesh. You'll make more money by keeping your content exclusive to your shop. But if you want to your products to make less and less money over time and produce products that have a very short shelf life, go ahead and make full perm stuff, undermine the marketplace, encourage price dumping and generally wreck the marketplace with hundreds of re-textured, samey, samey, spam products Just say no to full perms, value your own work guys and gals. You'll make far more money. I do value my work, but I look at it from a very different angle as you. For me an empty mesh is just half a product. Like untextured buildings are just half a product. You feel the need for full perms textures and scripts. Probably because you are not good at texturing and scripting yourself. For you it is perfectly okay that texture creators sell their merchandise full perms. And that is logic, only a very few people have all talents that are needed to be combined to make great SL products. But there are also people who are dammed good with texturing but cannot make sculpties or meshes, but would like to be able to buy these kind of products full perms. For the same reason as you have the need for full perms textures. It's the part of the job they cannot do themselve. I like to cooperate in SL, I do that on small scale in my own business, and I do that on large scale by offering full perms products with user licenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Thanks, Madeliefste - that helps a lot. will study a bit further, and be ready to go! Very pleased to hear that you will be offering this - was getting a bit nervous about Blender! On your question...I would actually use both options. Sometimes you need to add a quick piece to a set, say for instance I designed a bar set with 35 pieces and need a martini real quick to throw in...then the templates would work great. But if I were making a special serving tray that highlighted the martini in a particular type of glass design, then the ability to take it into a program and work it that way would be great. But we're all very different in our needs! Ask Ralph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mylar Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 As for the side argument, I actually agree with both sides. It's true that no one has all the skills, and providing component pieces for designers to use actually increases the over all quality of SL content, by allowing good designers to focus on what they are best at. On the other hand, my biggest competition are the dozens of people with no real talent that are slapping full perm textures on full perm furniture and making a fortune, while I'm working my tail off to provide something original and making pennies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 You can compete on that level with proper marketing. You can compete on any level with proper marketing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mylar Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Mickey Vandeverre wrote: You can compete on that level with proper marketing. You can compete on any level with proper marketing. oh, I know :matte-motes-big-grin: It does just get frustrating sometimes. I see all these biz-in-a-box stores popping up and grabbing a quick profit, while I've decided to do it the hard way, which will pay off better in the long run. But, as you've pointed out, this is waaaaaay off topic. :matte-motes-grin: Hope all the questions have been answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralph Alderton Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Mylar, Nobody is making a fortune slapping full perm textures on full perm furniture. The ecosystem is being smothered and devalued by this full perm activity. Just like a pyramid scheme it's unsustainable. The truth is that full perm content devalues virtual goods and this is something all 3D artists and content creators should be concerned about If you're not concerned, you're not understanding the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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