Mayalily, July 26, 2011 in Lifestyles and Relationships
Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.
Jimmy Soul died of a heart attack at the age of 45. The 'rest of his life" wasn't particularly lengthy. I hope his wife made him very happy in that short amount of time.
Why should monogamy be boring? You obviously do not understand the concept of serial monogamy wiith monogamous relationships lasting from five minutes upwards.
I wasn't aware of this. Sad. And I do hope his life was happy. Was a great song.
I get the viewpoint you like open relationships cause you can run around and have fun... but this means your wife is having fun with others as well and needs more men than you. You are not enough for her. Not sure how any man would be happy knowing "their woman" is in some other mans arms having a good time.. maybe a better time than they have with you. I guess men who are into "open relationships" don't think about what their wife is doing.
Could be that some men are secure enough with themselves and their relationship to know that whatever their wife is doing while she's away, she'll still be coming home to them.
yes but the lovers she's with, they are secure enough to know when she gets bored with husband, shes coming back to them - both the lovers and husband are secure in "knowing" they are the special ones, both think they are somehow better than the other, after all thats what the wife tells them when she is with them
I don't generally consider myself to be in an "open relationship", personally, but some have called it that over the years. Too many people assume too much if you use that term. But at least I can speak on the matter of if one's wife goes off with someone else for a bit, whether it's an hour, a day, a weekend, or a week. Not think about it? Well, maybe some don't. I usually do, though, and I tend to worry until she comes back. What do I worry about? Well, lots of things like safety and so on, but mostly about if she'll decide she's had about enough of my crap and decide not to come back. Obviously. LOL
I don't think there ever is any "knowing" with another person. There is what you choose to believe. If that belief ends up being incorrect to a major degree, then your world is not likely to be a happy one when you find out. And then there is how far you are willing to trust. Trust is never a sure thing, it is always a risk.
On the point of someone being "enough".. I'm not sure as I understand that concept. Like "enough" that one never looks at anyone else ever again? "Enough" that one doesn't daydream a bit sometimes? I'm not sure as anyone is ever "enough" in that regard, since they can't be absolutely everything you might ever wish for, at least not indefinitely. Even speaking strictly of things like emotional support and intellectual stimulation, leaving sex out of it entirely, I'd have to say that I at least think it very rare that anyone is "enough" for someone in all cases and times. If one is talking about sexual desire, in the sense of never looking at or fantasizing about anyone else, I'd have to say that it only seems likely to me if both parties involved happen to be dead or something. I think it's just human nature.
PS-added on the edit: So far as feeling secure, I don't believe any relationship is secure. It's always a competitive position, and it takes thought and effort if you want to stay in it. You make that effort because the person means that much to you.
Nice post. What it made me think of is the fact that life is all about choice. A small percent of humans decide they don’t want sexual relationships at all. Nuns, monks, priests, renunciants in India and on and on. In second life as well on these forums, you often see posts about “I got hurt and won’t do sl relationships anymore.” The fact is pleasure always has a price. Whether you are gorging yourself on sugar, cafeen, or sexual pleasure or ego boosting relationships. It affects your body, your mind, and moods. You addiction to pleasure affects every area of your life.
If you don’t get attached to another human being as a source of self esteem, ego boosting, sexual pleasure, companionship etc there is never a risk of hurt from losing those things. So it is definitely a trade off. Also, in relationships hurt is not felt equally. If one person cheats and the other does not, the person cheated on always hurts worse. The cheater? They get mad if they get dumped but the degree of hurt is far less than person they cheated on.
Humans have a huge variation in traits such as intelligence, compassion, understanding, insight, self understanding. Many humans don’t cheat for one reason. They know what hurt feels like and so out of compassion would never do that to another human being. Thus, they decide to be monogamous. Because they want a positive relationship without pain and hurt of any kind. If they want to move on they do, but they don’t find another to bridge the gap and they are honest. Do people in monogamous relationships have sexual fantasies about others? Oh course but they leave it to the fantasy. In the same way a person may fantasize about eating a whole cake.
Open relationships happen inho because a person decides the trade off for more pleasure for more insecurity and hurt is worth it. They work around the hurt and jealousy, they do mental gymnastics to not think about certain things or to think about them in certain ways. Humans can justify any behavior though mental creativity. One goal in life is happiness and we all seek that. Often though, we seek it in ways that fall short of having it. But we learn through these attempts.
Your posts are very well thought out and written as well. Pleasure isn't necessarily about excess. A gourmand and a gourmet both find pleasure in food, but the gourmand is the one who gorges. Since you mention sugar, though, let's consider chocolate. Sure, one can eat an entire "pounder" of M&Ms. Or you can take just five minutes to yourself, get away from the world, and eat just one square of chocolate in small pieces, letting them melt on your tongue. Pleasure isn't about how much you get, it's about how much you enjoy it. Agreed, it always has it's price and it affects every area of your life. But is that necessarily always a bad thing? Maybe some people feel it is worth the price.
Besides, being with someone, anyone, is not just about pleasure, except maybe for "good timers." It's sharing a piece of your lives. That will have some pleasure, but also some worry, some hardship. If the other person is having a really bad day, it may not be much fun at all. But if they actually mean anything to you, even as a friend, then for the time that you are with them you are there for them. It may not always be fun, but it's a part of being real. Even if it was perhaps one of the worst days of their lives, you can enjoy their company even if you're just being someone to listen and be a companion for a while.
So far as getting hurt, I personally think a certain amount of hurt is unavoidable. No matter how well-meaning someone is, they will sooner or later do something that hurts you. It may be by accident, but it will still happen, sooner or later. And you can pretty much count on it happening again. The realistic question isn't about avoiding hurt. It's about if that person is worth it to you.
I think that those things are true of any relationship, whether it is monogamous or non-monogamous, though.
In non-monogamous relationships, I don't think that mental gymnastics such as you mention are healthy. I'm not saying that some people might not try and do things that way, but personally I don't feel it'd work in the long run. If your mate goes off to spend time with someone else, and you have feelings of hurt or jealousy, then you need to process that, and you may need to talk it through with them. You can justify anything just about any way you want, but that's just a cover and the problems will never go away or be dealt with. Honesty is important in relationships, and if you're not honest with yourself, then you probably won't be able to be honest with your singular or plural partners either. Even if you try, if you're lying to yourself about how you feel, then you just won't have anything better than that to be able to give to them.
There's a lot of good posts here, and I agree most witht the one that says it's honesty that's been underrated. Dishonesty is the real issue, not the type of relationship.
Any type of relationship is ok in my book, as long as it's honest and between adults. Take that "Sister Wives" show, for instance- I've never watched it because it is utterly disinteresting to me, but I understand the concept- these women are ok with sharing this man. If that works for them, great. I don't believe it entirely... because as a woman and knowing women, it's pretty likely that at least some of those chicks secretly hate each other... but hey, just my POV. At least they all know about each other, and for all appearances it's good. Some people have "open" relationships, as mentioned, where they do what they like within whatever ground rules they set. In those relationships, monogamy is not prized, but still I don't think "overrated" applies. Once again, there's nothing wrong with this kind of relationship, because the people involved are supposed to be honest with each other, and everyone's eyes are open to what's going on.
I believe monogamy is completely possible, and people who pretend to be monogamous while doing whatever they can get away with are among the worst kinds of people. It's emotional manipulation to promise someone something to get what you want, and then not make any effort- or at least, not enough effort- to keep those promises. Anyone who claims they just can't be faithful, but doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to be up front about it, is just selfish and has some serious growing up to do. If you can't keep yourself from cheating and lying, then don't be in a relationship- it's that simple. If that ends up being lonely oh well; as was also mentioned, pleasure has it's price.
There are plenty of benefits to being monogamous- the sex is good because the person knows what you like(people who are getting bored are doing it wrong!), you don't have to worry about all the nasty diseases out there, your kids get to have both parents(which has proven benficial), you have someone you can depend on in the long term, someone who knows you better than anyone. There may not be any such thing as complete security- we're all human, we're going to have moments of doubt, jealousy, etc., but if you put as much into a relationship as you expect in return, those times will be much fewer than they would when you're going through multiple relationships and not being with anyone long enough to know what's normal and what should worry you about their behavior.
In conclusion, I'd say that monogamy is neither overrated nor underrated in general- only honored, dishonored, or ignored by people as they choose.
ETA: I think it's really sad to see so many people say they think it's too much to ask to expect their partner to be monogamous. It's quite a commentary on where things are going, I guess. I wouldn't be able to trust someone who betrayed me that way ever again, and there's a certain amount of foolishness and a sort of... smile and hope for the best attitude implied in doing so. Like, "ok, I know you stabbed me last time, but I'm gonna go ahead and give you this knife back because you're sorry and you swear you won't do it again". How many times do we staunch the wound and give back the knife before we get out with what's left of our self-respect?
"Also some people who gain become afraid to get naked with their significant other so they turn off the sex themselves, so it's no wonder a sex starved person might go looking for a sexual partner elsewhere because the person themselves is now afraid to get naked and have sex. This is circular reasoning. Simply stop the sugar and the french fries. I eat sugar-free treats mostly and I'm not diabetic. I eat sugar-free treats on purpose to maintain my weight. I will eat sugar once in a very great while as a treat. And I turn down those french fries because I love him more than I love french fries. "
Ok, so on some posts you claim to be anorexic and barely eat because of that, but here you say you control what you eat because you want to "maintain your weight"... which, if you're *actually* anorexic, is probably under what's healthy. You do realize starving yourself and not getting all the nutrients and YES- FAT that you need is just as bad for your health as being overwieght, right? It's a more immediate danger, even.
Also, a change in your partner's looks is never an excuse for cheating; how ridiculous. If you're not happy, leave. Cheating is for the selfish, who are unwilling to risk the discomfort of change to have what they want the honest way.
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