Will building in SL always be free?

[Knowl Paine]

With all the talk of Mesh and "prim cost"; I'm concerned that in the future, Residents may be charged to rez a cube.

I believe that charging a fee to build would be a bad idea. I really hope that this is not the plan.

I welcome any comments, insights or opinions from other Residents about this topic. 

 

[Maeve Balfour]

Nothing to be worried about there - prim cost is a term created by LL in regards to server rendering cost (NOT payment cost). It is a measure used to calculate mesh cost in a sim - so a single mesh is thus given a prim equivalency depending on its complexity. (This is a heated topic over in the mesh forum, which I won't go into detail about here).

But yah, nothing to be concerned about - keep rezzing those prims! :matte-motes-smile:

[Cinnamon Lohner]

Given the fact that to do a good build, you need a good collection of textures and to do a truly unique build, you need to do your own textures that cost 10L each to upload.  So I guess my answer is another question.  Is building in SL actually free??

--Cinn

[Chronometria]

Not to mention that buildings and items need land, which itself costs. If you want to build something and have it stick around, someone pays for something somewhere.

[Knowl Paine]

Thank you :smileyhappy:

I will have to read some of the discussion over there.

 

 

 

[Dogboat Taurog]

i read LL were demanding that all mesh builders/importers  were to be fully paid up SL residents.

so thats the simple answer.

no.

[Magnek Fang]

Actually, I think it's to head off IP issues at the pass, so they can catch folk when they try to import stuff from other games.

[Vladi Hazelnut]

Building is free and I would assume will always be. Unless you are uploading something, that is where the cost comes in. Uploading textures, meshes, sculpt maps and sounds is what costs you money. I highly doubt that simply rezzing a prim will cost you money.

[Knowl Paine]

Developing a good product requires resources, I don't think it is free.

I enjoy building and sandboxes work but having a place to work on a project for several weeks undisturbed would be ideal. I've had the privilege of working in an empty full Region for building and I would recommend it to any Builder.  

Even the best structural design will have some surfaces that will require custom textures.

I like to build; I have no idea what color the floor should be. I made this whole thing; doesn't that count for anything?

  

[Imnotgoing Sideways]

Building as never been free. (>_<)

The "Prim Tax" proved itself to be bad policy long ago and the current land/parcel ownership model a reasonable compromise so far.  Charging for asset uploads will likely continue to be a means to fund the storage space necessary to contain the resulting assets.  Gladly it continues to be inworld money and not some sort of wonky Paypal scheme. ()y

 

 

[Smoothie Perl]

Building or creating in SL (serious creations) never been free. Why should be now?

 

P.S. By the way I don't disagree with this policy, because keeps crap in a descent level.  I don't care about servers cost that's not my bussines after all

[Dogboat Taurog]

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Imnotgoing Sideways wrote:

Building as never been free. (>_<)

The "Prim Tax" proved itself to be bad policy long ago and the current land/parcel ownership model a reasonable compromise so far.  Charging for asset uploads will likely continue to be a means to fund the storage space necessary to contain the resulting assets.  Gladly it continues to be inworld money and not some sort of wonky Paypal scheme. (

)y

 

 

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technically building can be free, there are plenty of free legal textures.

i think some day soon the SL interface will be without build tools for free accounts.

[WADE1 Jya]

Yes "Prim Cost" is not a cost in $ for prims.

It refers to a mesh = X prims in rendering "cost" or time/resource used by system.

The only new cost you can expect is if you upload a mesh, it will cost moderately more than L$10 per upload.

[Void Singer]

while I'd like to see continued buidling being free (such as it is), I am among those who wish that sale right were limited at creation time to accounts that had payment information on file.... unfortunately it'd be nearly impossible to implement and still be backwards compatible for any modifiable content already in world. (the system I envision would tie a salable flag to each item on creation.... NPIOF, not salable, even by next owners. PIOF, salable unless permissions are set otherwise)

[Dogboat Taurog]

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Void Singer wrote:

while I'd like to see continued buidling being free (such as it is), I am among those who wish that sale right were limited at creation time to accounts that had payment information on file.... unfortunately it'd be nearly impossible to implement and still be backwards compatible for any modifiable content already in world. (the system I envision would tie a salable flag to each item on creation.... NPIOF, not salable, even by next owners. PIOF, salable unless permissions are set otherwise)

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thats just wrong, same as mesh import restrictions.

i can see it coming but its so wrong.

[Void Singer]

so you don't think people selling things should be accountable in any way? you don't think LL should at least make a reasonable effort to stop the flow and sale of stolen items? and what exactly is "wrong" about it? I'm not suggesting people pay to build, I'm not even suggesting they shouldn't be able to give away things they make. I'm only suggesting that anyone making a profit should be accountable at some level.

[Dogboat Taurog]

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Void Singer wrote:

so you don't think people selling things should be accountable in any way? you don't think LL should at least make a reasonable effort to stop the flow and sale of stolen items? and what exactly is "wrong" about it? I'm not suggesting people pay to build, I'm not even suggesting they shouldn't be able to give away things they make. I'm only suggesting that anyone making a profit should be accountable at some level.

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thats 2 different things, being accountable and having payment on file aren't the same thing.

we are all accountable.

 

[Void Singer]

really? how? please explain how a user on his 50th account selling stolen content and then funneling the cash flow through a dozen alts is "accountable". who repays the users that bought from this person when LL finally catches on and deletes that content? how does the original creator pursue compensation for their losses with no way to access information on who this thief is through legal channels, when that information does not exist?

and seriously, tell me what's "wrong" about requiring people making a profit on something to provide basic information on who they are to LL? it's surely a lot less onerous than all the various trade and merchant licenses and related costs and renewals of RL.

[Dogboat Taurog]

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Void Singer wrote:

really? how? please explain how a user on his 50th account selling stolen content and then funneling the cash flow through a dozen alts is "accountable". who repays the users that bought from this person when LL finally catches on and deletes that content? how does the original creator pursue compensation for their losses with no way to access information on who this thief is through legal channels, when that information does not exist?

and seriously, tell me what's "wrong" about requiring people making a profit on something to provide basic information on who they are to LL? it's surely a lot less onerous than all the various trade and merchant licenses and related costs and renewals of RL.

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whats wrong is you need to have paid LL some cash for something.

ips can be blocked, thats enough accountability.

you are accusing everyone without payment on file of being a thief basically.

[Melita Magic]

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Cinnamon Lohner wrote:

Given the fact that to do a good build, you need a good collection of textures and to do a truly unique build, you need to do your own textures that cost 10L each to upload.  So I guess my answer is another question.  Is building in SL actually free??

--Cinn

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Maybe years ago. But today, no one would buy a prim build with a blank texture and solid color from the menu on it.

Even if people make their own textures it's 10L per upload.

[Void Singer]

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Dogboat Taurog wrote:

whats wrong is you need to have paid LL some cash for something. [...]

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 this statement is incorrect. PIOF does not require paying LL anything. you are thinking of PIU, which is NOT what is required.

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ips can be blocked, thats enough accountability.

you are accusing everyone without payment on file of being a thief basically.

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in case you've missed it, IP blocking is what LL has already tried doing, and the thieves come back within minutes of being banned... even when using hardware ID. I've witnessed it first hand. the tools to do so are available freely even if one doesn't have the knowledge to do so manually.

I am not accusing anyone of anything, nor is LL. payment information is being used in the same way a pawn shop verifies identify for goods they purchase, so that thieves can be tracked, and legitimate users have effective means of not only pursuing people that steal from them, but also an effective end for reporting stolen content and possibly even recouping their losses if they are defrauded.

[Dogboat Taurog]

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Void Singer wrote:

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Dogboat Taurog wrote:

whats wrong is you need to have paid LL some cash for something. [...]

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 this statement is incorrect. PIOF does not require paying LL anything. you are thinking of PIU, which is NOT what is required.

Second, if you have never given us billing information, you'll need to enter it into your account. Why, you ask? Because having payment information on file is an important step in establishing direct relationships with content creators who will be working in mesh. Note: We do realize that with the current configuration, some Residents will need to make a purchase in order to enter their billing information.



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ips can be blocked, thats enough accountability.

you are accusing everyone without payment on file of being a thief basically.

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in case you've missed it, IP blocking is what LL has already tried doing, and the thieves come back within minutes of being banned... even when using hardware ID. I've witnessed it first hand. the tools to do so are available freely even if one doesn't have the knowledge to do so manually.

I am not accusing anyone of anything, nor is LL. payment information is being used in the same way a pawn shop verifies identify for goods they purchase, so that thieves can be tracked, and legitimate users have effective means of not only pursuing people that steal from them, but also an effective end for reporting stolen content and possibly even recouping their losses if they are defrauded.

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so credit cards can be stolen and bank accounts cant be stolen, nice try but you fail here.

i dont know how you can speak for LL btw.

[Void Singer]

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Dogboat Taurog wrote:

Second, if you have never given us billing information, you'll need to enter it into your account. Why, you ask? Because having payment information on file is an important step in establishing direct relationships with content creators who will be working in mesh. Note: We do realize that with the current configuration, some Residents will need to make a purchase in order to enter their billing information.



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 only applies to people who do not have a debit/credit card or US paypal, which is a vanishingly small amount of users with extunuating circumstances.... that it's available at all is pretty rare in online service.

 

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so credit cards can be stolen and bank accounts cant be stolen, nice try but you fail here.

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but stolen financial information can be traced, reported, and blacklisted... doing the same with IP addresses is an exercise in futility, since they don't identify an individual. so nice try but you fail doubly there.

 

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i dont know how you can speak for LL btw.

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 because I can read, and nowhere have they stated such an accusation (quite the opposite), so the only person here pretending to speak for others and put words in their mouth is you... but that seems to be a bad habit of yours already

[Dogboat Taurog]

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Void Singer wrote:

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Dogboat Taurog wrote:

Second, if you have never given us billing information, you'll need to enter it into your account. Why, you ask? Because having payment information on file is an important step in establishing direct relationships with content creators who will be working in mesh. Note: We do realize that with the current configuration, some Residents will need to make a purchase in order to enter their billing information.



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 only applies to people who do not have a debit/credit card or US paypal, which is a vanishingly small amount of users with extunuating circumstances.... that it's available at all is pretty rare in online service.

 

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so credit cards can be stolen and bank accounts cant be stolen, nice try but you fail here.

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but stolen financial information can be traced, reported, and blacklisted... doing the same with IP addresses is an exercise in futility, since they don't identify an individual. so nice try but

you

fail doubly there.

 

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i dont know how you can speak for LL btw.

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 because I can read, and nowhere have they stated such an accusation (quite the opposite), so the only person here pretending to speak for others and put words in their mouth is you... but that seems to be a bad habit of yours already

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i think your tag is making you think you are way above where you really are.

i'm not the only person pointing this payment crap out.

i don't put words in anyones mouth or talk for them.

im quoting LL.

i havent failed at all, you just havent thought about it, and haven't considered other peoples comments.

can't force you to understand i guess.

 

 

[Void Singer]

My sig is a self effacing joke, about how at one time in LL's effort to block the spammer, no one could quote me or use my name on the forums without their posts getting moderated.... rather than get mad about it, I turned it into a joke.

as for understanding, I understand your position perfectly well, and reject it, because it doesn't fit the facts. but feel free to keep grasping at straws.