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Silly boys SL is for girls!


Kelinda
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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:



 

I've noticed a trend of gamers recreating their WoW or Lineage characters in SL. They don't use SL as their only social / gaming environment but merely as an additional MMO that allows certain forms of RP that are not supported by their game of choice (cybersex, first and foremost).

 

Interesting observation, Ishtara.  I have played WoW for about  three years now and it never occured to me to ask guildies, for example, or anyone else from WoW to join SL.  A few guildies know that I DJ in SL but none have ever expressed interest in trying it. . 

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:


Deltango Vale wrote:

After nearly 5 years in SL, I will offer my opinion. I have no data, just an opinion based on my experience. I would say that women outnumber men for obvious reasons, but I believe gender swapping is equal for women and men. For every guy running a female avi there is a girl running a male avi. I believe gender swapping is much more difficult than it seems - especially for straight men. Even so, a gay man and a straight woman are very different; a bi woman and a straight man are equally different. In my opinion, gender is like culture: difficult to fake (imagine a Brit pretending to be from Texas, mate, or a white guy from New Jersey pretending to be a south London Rasta). I therefore have a strong suspicion that anyone in SL older than a year has settled into his or her natural RL gender (furries excepted).

You're forgetting about the large community of transsexual and transgender avatars, as well as hermaphrodites, androgynes, femboys and manga-inspired futanaris
:)
And furries of course. A great deal of feminine furries sport male or partially male pelvis attachments.

I have indeed settled into my natural RL gender (in Sociolotron already, long before I joined SL), for exactly the reason you suggested (gender is hard to fake). But I nonetheless have a feminine avatar and people who don't know me perceive me as a woman. The same is true for the vast majority of my friends and acquaintances in SL.

a woman with a 12inch dong???

or have things changed???

last time i read one of your posts you were boasting of such a thing and quite frankly you would fail on the 4 point woman test with one of those.

 

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Dogboat Taurog wrote:

a woman with a 12inch dong???

or have things changed???

12 inch, 2 inch, or anything in between :) It depends on my mood and the occasion. I change them like wigs and clothes.

 


last time i read one of your posts you were boasting of such a thing and quite frankly you would fail on the 4 point woman test with one of those.

 

What you call boasting, I call self-deprecating humor :) It's quite impossible to boast with anything SL-related. That's like boasting with your anime doll collection, your bushy tufts of shoulder hair, or your ability to fit an entire lasagna into your mouth.

As for your "4 point woman test", why would I want to participate in that? I know that I'm not a woman, you know that, everyone knows that. It's not like I'm trying to hide or tuck away anything. On the contrary, I get things out in the open wherever I'm allowed to do so :) But I can't help but wonder how you would fare in my own four-point test:

 

1) You've just met somebody in an online game / virtual world. Do you know this person in RL? If not, you can never be certain about their gender, no matter how many secret questions of the Sisterhood of Our Bleeding Lady you ask them. If that bothers you, you might want to reconsider hanging out with strangers in SL.

2) Do you think their RL gender is any of your business? If you think it is, you have a problem with respecting people's privacy, and an anonymous online world might not be the right place for you. It may be better to relocate to a platform where people don't mind you sticking your nose in their private affairs.

3) Does people's RL gender even matter? If the answer is yes, you may want to rethink the merits of socializing in a virtual world where people can change their gender and appearance at will. Also, you might want to get checked out for OCD, because obsessive worrying about things that are beyond your control is a typical symptom.

4) Do you believe that a few questions about female hygiene products can reliably determine a person's RL gender? If you do, you are either blissfully naive or suffering from a mild delusion. But if this kind of test keeps your homophobia at bay and allows you to have guilt-free cyberfun with gender benders, more power to you :)

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:

[...] I know that I'm not a woman, you know that, everyone knows that. [...]


 just for the sake of humor, I'll play devils advocate.... *I* do not know that... I know you say it, and I even accept the representation at face value... but I can't say I know it, or even care to know it.... just pixels on my end, so the only thing that really matters to me is the mind driving it.

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Good point. I could still be a woman in RL who gets her jollies from messing with people like Dogboat :matte-motes-big-grin: That's basically what I was trying to tell him: He can never know for sure. Even if somebody met me in RL, there is always a small possibility that I'm conspiring with another person and have them stand in for me in order to conceal my identity.

ETA: It doesn't seem to occur to Dogboat that if he knows the correct answers to his four-point test, other men will know them as well, which renders the entire exercise pointless.

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:

Good point. I could still be a woman in RL who gets her jollies from messing with people like Dogboat :matte-motes-big-grin: That's basically what I was trying to tell him: He can never know for sure. Even if somebody met me in RL, there is always a small possibility that I'm conspiring with another person and have them stand in for me in order to conceal my identity.

ETA: It doesn't seem to occur to Dogboat that if he knows the correct answers to his four-point test, other men will know them as well, which renders the entire exercise pointless.

my 4 point test is a real ife visual one and has nothing to do with a persons knowledge of female hygiene products - thats quite bizarre.

in fact i'd say i have more knowledge of female hygiene products than you, albeit second hand as it were. living with women tends to educate men in this particular branch of femininity.

Unless of course you buy the aforesaid products for yourself..

ps, men know the 4 point test instinctively.

 

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Void Singer wrote:

considering that pt#1 seems pretty obvious I'm afraid to ask why there are 3 more or what they might be...

i dont think it's so obvious to a woman and i think you may have been misled earlier.

this is the 4 part test:

boobs

legs

ass

face.

every normal guy will do that in rl even if they dont realise they are doing it.

 

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Dogboat Taurog wrote:

my 4 point test is a real ife visual one and has nothing to do with a persons knowledge of female hygiene products - thats quite bizarre.

Oh, you're one of those voice and webcam gender verification folks :) I seriously wonder why they bother with virtual worlds like SL when all that matters to them is RL beauty. Why not stick to RL where this kind of paranoia is not necessary? I can only imagine one reason, namely that their own avatars don't correspond to reality either. Ugly ducklings who pretend to be swans and worry that other swans might be roosters.

And it's all so pointless anyway. Webcam verification is in no way reliable. Many transgender people look very feminine, and unless you were to suggest a virtual strip search via webcam (thus risking a ban for sexual harrassment and intolerance), you can never be sure about their biological gender. Besides, how would you know that the person you see on camera is the same person you've previously talked to? They could always talk a female roommate into helping out.

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Dogboat Taurog wrote:


Void Singer wrote:

considering that pt#1 seems pretty obvious I'm afraid to ask why there are 3 more or what they might be...

i dont think it's so obvious to a woman and i think you may have been misled earlier.

this is the 4 part test:

boobs

legs

ass

face.

every normal guy will do that in rl even if they dont realise they are doing it.

 

And in case of Miriam Rivera, they'd be wrong on all four counts :)

Miriam Rivera.jpg

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:


Dogboat Taurog wrote:

my 4 point test is a real ife visual one and has nothing to do with a persons knowledge of female hygiene products - thats quite bizarre.

Oh, you're one of those voice and webcam gender verification folks
:)
I seriously wonder why they bother with virtual worlds like SL when all that matters to them is RL beauty. Why not stick to RL where this kind of paranoia is not necessary? I can only imagine one reason, namely that their own avatars don't correspond to reality either. Ugly ducklings who pretend to be swans and worry that other swans might be roosters.

And it's all so pointless anyway. Webcam verification is in no way reliable. Many transgender people look very feminine, and unless you were to suggest a virtual strip search via webcam (thus risking a ban for sexual harrassment and intolerance), you can never be sure about their biological gender. Besides, how would you know that the person you see on camera is the same person you've previously talked to? They could always talk a female roommate into helping out.

i have found my ideal partner on SL

4500 miles away and im emmigrating quite soon.

never used webcam, i have a few photos thats all.

i dont need to hide anything and nor does she.

might be old fashioned but it beats being alone in RL, your whole life just a fantasy and scared to expose yourself eh?

 

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Dogboat Taurog wrote:

i have found my ideal partner on SL

4500 miles away and im emmigrating quite soon.

never used webcam, i have a few photos thats all.

i dont need to hide anything and nor does she.

 

Congrats :) Good for you, supposing those photos are real. But if you've already found your sweetheart, why are you still so obsessed with what other people might have between their legs?

 


Dogboat Taurog wrote:

might be old fashioned but it beats being alone in RL, your whole life just a fantasy and scared to expose yourself eh? 

I really don't understand where you're getting the impression that I'm scared to expose myself :matte-motes-big-grin: I do that at every opportunity in SL. I run a nude beach after all.

You're right though that my SL is just a fantasy. That's what online games and virtual worlds are made for. Your world, your imagination and all that rub. Some people are disabled in RL or suffer from anxiety disorders, and places like SL are their only shot at having a socially active life complete with romantic activities. If that makes you feel superior, be my guest. Everybody needs somebody else to look down at and occasionally spit on.

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Dogboat Taurog wrote:

i'm sure extensive surgery and a lifetime of homones could fool a man.

but it doesn't happen naturally.

its still a man underneath all the facade.

She (not it) had no surgery other than breast implants, but you're right about the hormones. Where you're completely wrong is that this kind of thing doesn't happen naturally, seeing that there are many biological men with naturally high estrogen and low testosterone levels who look very feminine.

PS: Your statement "its still a man" shows exactly what kind of person you are. I really don't understand what the likes of you are doing in a place like SL.

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:


Dogboat Taurog wrote:

i have found my ideal partner on SL

4500 miles away and im emmigrating quite soon.

never used webcam, i have a few photos thats all.

i dont need to hide anything and nor does she.

 

Congrats
:)
Good for you, supposing those photos are real. But if you've already found your sweetheart, why are you still so obsessed with what other people might have between their legs?

 

Dogboat Taurog wrote:

might be old fashioned but it beats being alone in RL, your whole life just a fantasy and scared to expose yourself eh? 

I really don't understand where you're getting the impression that I'm scared to expose myself :matte-motes-big-grin: I do that at every opportunity in SL. I run a nude beach after all.

You're right though that my SL is just a fantasy. That's what online games and virtual worlds are made for. Your world, your imagination and all that rub. Some people are disabled in RL or suffer from anxiety disorders, and places like SL are their only shot at having a socially active life complete with romantic activities. If that makes you feel superior, be my guest. Everybody needs somebody else to look down at and occasionally spit on.

since you ask, i find your lack of honesty to be odious.

if you are disabled in RL or have mental problems im sure i could cope with that.

2 things really make me angry, dishonesty and flaunting sexuality, its just  so gross.

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Dogboat Taurog wrote:

since you ask, i find your lack of honesty to be odious.

if you are disabled in RL or have mental problems im sure i could cope with that.

2 things really make me angry, dishonesty and flaunting sexuality, its just  so gross.

 

My lack of honesty? When have I ever been dishonest about my RL sexuality? :smileyindifferent: I think I've mentioned it often enough in the past.

But I understand that it's exactly my honesty that makes you "really angry". I know your type only too well. Flaunting sexuality, my smoothly shaven butt... it is people like you who flaunt their overly aggressive male sexuality at every opportunity and make the lives of less stereotypically male specimens a living hell.

This reminds me of something Pussycat wrote about the behavior of male chimpanzees. Shouldn't you be out there in the streets beating up transgender people or something? People like you are the reason that transgender people prefer to remain anonymous, because we know very well that you lunatics would come after us if you knew where we live.

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:


Dogboat Taurog wrote:

i'm sure extensive surgery and a lifetime of homones could fool a man.

but it doesn't happen naturally.

its still a man underneath all the facade.

She (not it) had no surgery other than breast implants, but you're right about the hormones. Where you're completely wrong is that this kind of thing doesn't happen naturally, seeing that there are many biological men with naturally high estrogen and low testosterone levels who look very feminine.

PS: Your statement "its still a man" shows exactly what kind of person you are. I really don't understand what the likes of you are doing in a place like SL.

it is a man.

he is a man.

take your pick.

but he is definately not a she.

i'm in SL to do as i wish. in my case i'm quite honest about who i am and what i am.

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:


Dogboat Taurog wrote:

since you ask, i find your lack of honesty to be odious.

if you are disabled in RL or have mental problems im sure i could cope with that.

2 things really make me angry, dishonesty and flaunting sexuality, its just  so gross.

 

My lack of honesty? When have I ever been dishonest about my RL sexuality? :smileyindifferent: I think I've mentioned it often enough in the past.

But I understand that it's exactly my honesty that makes you "really angry". I know your type only too well. Flaunting sexuality, my smoothly shaven butt... it is people like you who flaunt their overly aggressive male sexuality at every opportunity and make the lives of less stereotypically male specimens a living hell.

This reminds me of something Pussycat wrote about the behavior of male chimpanzees. Shouldn't you be out there in the streets beating up transgender people or something? People like you are the reason that transgender people prefer to remain anonymous, because we know very well that you lunatics would come after us if you knew where we live.

well it just shows you dont know me at all, i have never beaten a gay or transgender person up and now im a lunatic?

you appear to be dishonest in your dealings with others in second life by your own admission.

what im showing you is your reflection.

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Kelinda wrote:

So it seems to me women out number men 8-10 to 1 in Second Life. Is this because most of SL is about shopping and homemaking? Are the boys off playing War Games?

Whoah.... talk about lazy stereotypes. I'm a regular sorta guy, can't stand war games and [as a performing musician in SL] have to spend a bit of time shopping around for new outfits for my main and alt avatars [the other 'band' members, hangers-on, etc.]. I also spend a fair bit of time indulging my inner lego-freak.

 

One thing I've noticed about the 'War Games' thing, and maybe some of you folks could help me here, is the gun thing. OK, I did live in the US for 5 years as a teenager long, long ago but since then have been back in bad old Yurp. So I can't claim to have much firsthand knowledge of US culture. One thing I repeatedly ran into after joining SL were people yarfing on about  their gun collections, etc., etc. Is that a 'normal' US male thing or was I just unlucky to blunder into a crowd of psychopaths? FWIW, I've never owned a gun nor wanted to. My only experience of guns was in the army cadets at school. I couldn't hit a stationary taget on the rifle range and was more interested in being a radio operator.

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I'm pretty sure those 4 points can be beaten more easily than you imagine, but worse I think you are falling back to on "is this person attractive" criteria, rather than "is this person the gender I expect"

PS
everyone naturally uses "attractiveness" criteria when meeting new people, but those vary by culture and personal taste. some have more, less, or different "points", and I'd definitely disagree that there is one absolute fixed standard.

 

@Alazarin:
is it a lazy stereotype if the generalities fit or are used humorously? it's not quite an exact science, human behavior... there's always outliers. as for the gun thing, could be either or... The US has a much more casual relationship with weapons than some places. arguments about it range from it being uncivilized, to being common sense, even here. It's partly driven by a sense of pride of both skill and ability to defend oneself/property/family against extreme circumstances. it comes I think from the explorer/frontiersman mentality a nd lack of acceptance of the satus quo that first built the US.... unfortunately it's a bit out of place and poorly focused in modern society, if not directed towards preparedness and responsibility can lead to backwardness.

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