MESH... Merchants....and the Market

[Medhue Simoni]

Np. If I ever get a well rigged SL default model, I'd love to make some mesh clothing for creators. As I'm really more of an animator, I don't really want to be a clothing designer, but I know the 2ndary market for mesh clothing would be huge. So, If all I had to do was make the mesh, and UV Maps, I'd be happy to do it. Of course, time is always an issue, lol. Hopefully, there are others like me that see the potential for creating mesh clothing for others to textures and sell. I personally feel that texturing is the hardest part.:smileyvery-happy:

[Madeliefste Oh]

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Arwen Serpente wrote:

 

2) The creator name will be the name of the Mesh creator, not the avatar creating the final piece UNLESS the mesh file is purchased and then "re-uploaded" by the purchaser (and only then by an avatar with PIOF). So the cost skyrockets (first buying a full perm Mesh, then uploading it to have your name on it). Most sculptors right now sell their maps with no mod permissions - useable to build with inworld, but not saveable to computer. I suppose this could be worked around by buying the file the same way as buying a PSD file and downloading it, then uploading the final product to SL. The costs could potentially be huge, as right now, when a sculpty pack is purchased inworld, usually it includes multiple varieties of the same item (say shirt collars - you get dozens of options so you can switch between them depending on the build).



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This is an interesting point you bring up here.

cYo is a prefab business, and we did not plan to change that for mesh products.

As far as I understand it, you are not allowed to upload a mesh of which you don't own the IP rights. We are prepared to sell a lot of our work to other SL businesses to use in SL: the sculpt maps and the psd files for our sculpts products, the meshes and the UV maps (templates) for mesh. But we are not prepared to sell our IP rights.

For Photoshop files it's different. We can sell them with a user license. Anyone who buys our products is allowed (by both us and LL) to upload the textures he creates with the help of the Photoshop file to SL. But not anyone is allowed by LL to upload a mesh. I think it is just not possible to make user licenses for meshes that must be uploaded again by an owner who has become a user license but no IP rights. We can only make user licenses for meshes that we as creators have uploaded ourselves.

In the light of better protection of IP rights from original creators, it's actually not too bad that the systems saves the name of the uploader and does not allow change of it by a second, third, fourth creator...

[Madeliefste Oh]

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

 

Rigging a mesh is difficult and extremely time consuming. Plus, a creator that wants to make rigged mesh clothing should really have the exact SL model with exact SL rigging to create clothing with. I think some people might have this for Blender, but I've not seen any SL default avatar models for any other program.

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That is what Collada was invented for. I found a rigged model of the female SL avatar, I'm sorry I don't remember the site, I downloaded them more then half a year ago. It might have been somewhere in SL wiki, but can also be on a site of a resident. I think there was a rigged male available as well. 

I think the original file was an .obj file, but I'm not really sure about that. I have saved all kind of avatar mesh variations from different sources, and I'm not really sure which was the one that had the good rigg.

Anyway I succeeded to import it in Blender, and save it as a .blend file, then to export it to collada and to import it in C4D with still the rigging intact. So what I can do for Cinema 4D, you must be able to do for Max 3D as well.

Blender is free to download. Only thing you need to find in that program is the import and export button. And then you can work with the rigg in the 3D program you are used to.

[Poenald Palen]

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Madeliefste Oh wrote:

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

 

Rigging a mesh is difficult and extremely time consuming. Plus, a creator that wants to make rigged mesh clothing should really have the exact SL model with exact SL rigging to create clothing with. I think some people might have this for Blender, but I've not seen any SL default avatar models for any other program.

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That is what Collada was invented for. I found a rigged model of the female SL avatar, I'm sorry I don't remember the site, I downloaded them more then half a year ago. It might have been somewhere in SL wiki, but can also be on a site of a resident. I think there was a rigged male available as well. 

I think the original file was an .obj file, but I'm not really sure about that. I have saved all kind of avatar mesh variations from different sources, and I'm not really sure which was the one that had the good rigg.

Anyway I succeeded to import it in Blender, and save it as a .blend file, then to export it to collada and to import it in C4D with still the rigging intact. So what I can do for Cinema 4D, you must be able to do for Max 3D as well.

Blender is free to download. Only thing you need to find in that program is the import and export button. And then you can work with the rigg in the 3D program you are used to.

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I must mention Domino Marama has a avatar mesh, though it might not be rigged right now, and with Gaia Clary they are working on an animation and avatar solution...as far as I can remember it is for both.

And, yeah, a cr2 animation rig setup is out there and this is for poser and is from LL. It is most likely found on the wiki. This might be of use as well. it imports into Poser and also DAZ. But I don't know if you can use this other than Poser might do collada and I think daz's pro version of DAZ Studio and Carrera do this. But, I am not sure about all this!

Now, there is also a BHV export that has a rigged avatar in a .blend file for blender. This might work out if you switch to modelling mode (it is in the aniamtion set up due to it being for that purpose, and loads a python script...uh, this is a sort of plug-in type of solution that blender 2.49 uses and this file will most likely not work in 2.5x versions) and...uh, you might be able to get something out of it and also use/compare the avatar currently on Domino's site. Keep an eye on the site or the mechinimatrix site if you want to get the blender version that Gaia sets up. I mention this not becuase I get paid, but I did use JASS early on and have used primstar 1.0 from those guys! I stick with it because it is what I have and have not migrated to using...well, I stopped making much for a year due to RL uncertainties, health scare and mesh roll out..plus, other crisis. Well, basically uh...yeah, I mention it because it helps and they have helped me so I can say the stuff works!

I also used DAZ, it works fine for animations. But never figured out anything else, I made no products with it BUT did a test of some anims on beta grid. It was fun in a way, slightly odd interface that can be set up in a bazzilion ways to siute your needs and has features I never imagined I would see ina  free program (for personal use) so...yeah, DAZ studio is fun stuff. But, not a modelling solution and might not help but to export in form a program that is easy for you to get, use or figure out that does not support collada...sorry, I can't remember if the personal free version does collada export though.

[Poenald Palen]

To answer the OP, I will sort of put out some speculation.

Mesh is faster that sculpts, I feel. I figure people will make more, faster and it will look better.

My market! Flourish with Tonnes of models and be great for buyers, bad bad bad for creators!

Why do I think this? Look for blueprints. You see tonnes of two things. Characters and cars. Planes and motorcycles are there to, but humans and cars are totally top. Cars are alwayus found on 3D warehouse sites. 99% or so(I think this is almost true stat BTW...but sort of a exageration for fun,....but seriously, it might be real) of modellers are guys! They make game stuff and cars. Cars are seperate...why? Renders! People render these amazing cars, design new cars (rarer) and dream dream dream!!! Why? Because cars are amazing, they are better than everything on earth..duh! OK, I am joking. But, they work wonderfully in 3D software due to materials! Try to make a car paint mat in any 3D software or rendering software. It is easier than making sackcoth for a medieval sim or making decent clothes. Easy, fast, 99% of creators thinking of making them....come on, every car you can imagine will be in SL within a year!

Now, I could make chasis and sell them. But, that doesnn't work. People just grab scripts from a ripped car that is not supposed to have mods or trans on the scripts....but yeah, who cares and they move on. No need or sales there. So....uh, tracks? Nah, each venue alwqas seems to build thier own stuff and I don't have the name and hours of testing and honing that went into the better selling track maker. I mean, I just don't have that experience. I know the way to make it, have a few track bits on beta grid I used for testing and thinking, dreaming and started work on a system.....abandoned. No point. Anything I can make a 100 others can make in SL for cars. Cars are a HUGE deal with 3D and done till overdone. Find a spatula? Yeah, there are some makign those to i bet. But, obviously in SL you need to look at that market. I don't know. Animations are fun, but not interested as much because I really need to move onto something with a larger market. Yes, SL has lots of money...but lots and lots of that is rent and LL makes most money. Besides, 100 dollars between 100 people is a dollar a peice. Lots of people make stuff here. So, you have a huge gap in earnings with very very very few making a living here. I can't work fast enough...well, maybe now I can when I focus on something. But what? Not sure. I think I will move on some time soon.

[Poenald Palen]

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Claireschen Hesten wrote:

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

to qualify to upload a mesh. You need to have PIOF, or Payment Info On File,

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i am kinda curious as to why this restriction was added, it doesn't bother me as i don't plan on trying out mesh uploading but if i wanted to, being restricted to and not having PIOF i and other NPIOF'S couldn't try it 

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I personally think, this is not official LL line, that Sculpts where sort of smushy and no one could claim a fake car in the real world competed with thier real world item. Now, you grab a mesh you ripped from a computer game...lets say GTA. You them make Gangsta World Sims. and plop that stuff down on a rented homstead......you are now running a game. A game that competes directly with hours of use with GTA!!!! This is direct product hour usage competition, and you stole thier stuff!! Not good at all.

Now, peole say personal use is alright. It is common to use samples and make loops from others music. When it comes to releasing the track you need to get all that legal stuff sorted. If it doesn't fly, or they don't like the usage...no go. BUT, you are sort of allowed to make that track and all the people in the studio are enjoying it. So...are they IP theives. Sort of! They had no rights to use it. So go arrest Joe Satriani for using phaser sounds and even send captian spock avatars after him when he logs in with an avatar? Nah, this is strange stuff we need to think about. I think LL means DMCA filings or letters from companies about TM. If I mention a car company in my name do I now have to worry? I did before the big threats and LL went to court and had to tell us all to stop using company TM's. Granted, I didn't use thier TM logo, but mentioned the RL vehicle name.....do I now have to worry? It was seemingly alright, with exact copies made of many vehicles and even logo's painted on them! But...I only said it was inspired, there are many differences and truly it is not a replica. But, it was basically known by most as the car that it was inspired by...even if the name was different. Some guy is like "You are not claiming to have made the design youself though, right?" And I am saying it is like sport bikes, they look the same and are all basically copied from each other and any design trends in the industry....this is sort of what happened with this car I built. People don't see that many things in RL, even from top designers, are all sort of copied in some ways? But, not verbatim. Don't most dress makers make a "little black dress" that is a tiny bit different? Why is this hard to understand. I explain...but did he AR me, so now I can't get in? See, this is strange. This is why I made the NewT. It si not like anything I have seen. I really feel this is a great idea for people. Make it SL only, even make a higher detailed model and render it for the fantasy of a real one factor! Who knows, this is what designers do anyway in RL! Speculation work, you speculate what a large company or a well known products next gen might be if you where chosen to design it! They add these, TM logo and all, to thier portfolios under "personal" work....If I made a few of these spec works and put them in a portfolio and then entered that folio in my SL profile for all to see...is LL going to slam me for TM infringement? I dont' understand, many uses seem legit but really might not be. It might appear you work for them, even if you put it under "personal" in you portfolio.....strange. But, no one goes after this. But, just because no one is going after you doesn't mean you did nothing wrong!

[Poenald Palen]

Toysoldier Thor might have a good idea here. The next set of COLLADA additions will include animation (well....fingers crossed and was stated as a hopeful addition by LL employees...but obviously, we will not know till it happens) and basically collada is made to be rigged and animated. I think they might be going for rigs within objects, so they can be scripted to move using this. But then again, maybe they only mean custom rigs to replace the current avatar rig? I mean, avatars are a big focus of LL's efforts. BUT, can you imagine the neato things you can do with animals, and this is a big market! Not to mention that, but clothing on a clothes line and other silly simple that might add a really great deal of life to SL. But it depends on what you want.

The one thing that might work out well for early uploaders is that they might just change the restrictions and some items that are very high detail might be coveted by some!