End of V1?

[leliel Mirihi]

And 1.15 was still mostly useable 3 months after 1.16 was released with support for sculpties, but what about a year later? Or right now for that matter, I believe you can still log on with 1.15, don't see too many people doing it tho.

Yes I know there are v1 viewers that can see meshes, but since they ripped out the whole render pipeline (among other things) and replaced it with the one from v3 I don't think you can really call them v1 anymore, more like a v1 & 1/2.

[Nerxual Oh]

I don't use V2 or V3 cause of the layout is horrible, not cause of my computer. My computer is fine. I just tried firestorm with mesh just few minutes ago. I crashed few times cause of gestures. I also hated the layout, it's not organized at all. Unistalled it and went back to phoenix. 

 

As for this rumor or another rumor saying Lindens are driving away 3rd party viewers, I find false until proven otherwise. I really like this rumor to be just a silly rumor, nothing more cause lindens will most likely lose a lot of people if they get rid of V1 layout. 

[Nerxual Oh]

I don't use V2 or V3 cause of the layout is horrible, not cause of my computer. My computer is fine. I just tried firestorm with mesh just few minutes ago. I crashed few times cause of gestures. I also hated the layout, it's not organized at all. Unistalled it and went back to phoenix. 

 

As for this rumor or another rumor saying Lindens are driving away 3rd party viewers, I find false until proven otherwise. I really like this rumor to be just a silly rumor, nothing more cause lindens will most likely lose a lot of people if they get rid of V1 layout. 

[Randall Ahren]

The latest version of Singularity (1.60)  renders mesh and it's a V1 type viewer like Phoenix. In fact, it's my favorite viewer followed by Phoenix because it rezzes in textures the most rapidly. It's beta, but I was using it yesterday and it seemed to work fine. Give it a try: singularityviewer.org

[Randall Ahren]

The latest version of Singularity (1.60)  renders mesh and it's a V1 type viewer like Phoenix. In fact, it's my favorite viewer followed by Phoenix because it rezzes in textures the most rapidly. It's beta, but I was using it yesterday and it seemed to work fine. Give it a try: singularityviewer.org

[Nerxual Oh]

That sounds really promising Thank you

[Nerxual Oh]

That sounds really promising Thank you

[Qie Niangao]

Wow this is an ancient thread.  I guess that's the point of it, now.

It's completely up to third party developers what happens to v1.  If they continue to retrofit everything from v4, v5, ad infinitum, then there's no limit to what can be called "v1".

I think this is a fool's errand -- mostly because I think the v1 viewer UI is every bit as much a piece of crap as v2 and all that's come since.  None of it is worth a bucket of warm spit, so it's pretty difficult for me to get overly excited about one or the other variation on the theme of Fail.

What I don't know is whether there will ever be a way for the newer code to match the ability of the Snowglobe code (on which the v1 TPVs are based) to run on really ancient and underpowered machines. It's worth noting that the old code base is only more performant with the crippled graphics settings that were the defaults back then.  Turn on shadows on v1 (only possible through debug settings, and then unbearably buggy) and the fastest machine drops to unusable framerates, whereas newer versions run shadows and per-pixel lighting quite well even on mid-range machines.  But it seems post-v2 cannot reclaim that ability to run on obsolete hardware even if the settings are nerfed down to the level of v1's defaults.  I recall a similar situation with Windlight, a couple years before the v2 transition started.

[Qie Niangao]

Wow this is an ancient thread.  I guess that's the point of it, now.

It's completely up to third party developers what happens to v1.  If they continue to retrofit everything from v4, v5, ad infinitum, then there's no limit to what can be called "v1".

I think this is a fool's errand -- mostly because I think the v1 viewer UI is every bit as much a piece of crap as v2 and all that's come since.  None of it is worth a bucket of warm spit, so it's pretty difficult for me to get overly excited about one or the other variation on the theme of Fail.

What I don't know is whether there will ever be a way for the newer code to match the ability of the Snowglobe code (on which the v1 TPVs are based) to run on really ancient and underpowered machines. It's worth noting that the old code base is only more performant with the crippled graphics settings that were the defaults back then.  Turn on shadows on v1 (only possible through debug settings, and then unbearably buggy) and the fastest machine drops to unusable framerates, whereas newer versions run shadows and per-pixel lighting quite well even on mid-range machines.  But it seems post-v2 cannot reclaim that ability to run on obsolete hardware even if the settings are nerfed down to the level of v1's defaults.  I recall a similar situation with Windlight, a couple years before the v2 transition started.

[Nerxual Oh]

If you are calling every layout, base or whatever. A piece of crap, why you even replying to this forum? I most likely misunderstood point of your post though.

 

I like the features of newest stuff but I hate the new layout with those annoying sidebars and everything else is in a different place, plus the most annoying "Current Outfit". Wish lindens would get rid of it. There is already 'Worn Items' tab. 

 

I also didn't noticed that this forum was old. Which proves that is just a dumb little rumor. 

[Nerxual Oh]

If you are calling every layout, base or whatever. A piece of crap, why you even replying to this forum? I most likely misunderstood point of your post though.

 

I like the features of newest stuff but I hate the new layout with those annoying sidebars and everything else is in a different place, plus the most annoying "Current Outfit". Wish lindens would get rid of it. There is already 'Worn Items' tab. 

 

I also didn't noticed that this forum was old. Which proves that is just a dumb little rumor. 

[Qie Niangao]

I replied because I want the folks who are so enamoured of v1 to get a little perspective.  It's not as if v1 was a major advance in UI design, or even a particularly viable contender in the world of online gaming.  The tragedy of v2 was that it didn't do much to improve on that.  (Well, that in addition to having some serious design flaws, notably including the implementation of the sidebar, which actually had the laudable design goal of opening up the screen real estate to unencumbered view of the world, however desperately it failed at that goal.)

Anyway, the reason I'm replying again is to mention that with v3.2.2, much changes in terms of "layout with those annoying sidebars...."  The sidebar is gone, replaced by user-customizable button bars.  It has problems and limitations, but it definitely changes the UI again, and in a more "meta" level than v2 did, beginning to add flexibility for user-defined layouts. It's an encouraging direction, I think.

But the main point of this thread has been about the ability to use anything based on the new code for underpowered hardware, and I think that's an important question.  For one thing, integrated graphics remains the norm for stock desktops, and while those chipsets have greatly improved, they're still pretty slow for any SL viewer, especially anything based on post-Snowglobe code.

[Qie Niangao]

I replied because I want the folks who are so enamoured of v1 to get a little perspective.  It's not as if v1 was a major advance in UI design, or even a particularly viable contender in the world of online gaming.  The tragedy of v2 was that it didn't do much to improve on that.  (Well, that in addition to having some serious design flaws, notably including the implementation of the sidebar, which actually had the laudable design goal of opening up the screen real estate to unencumbered view of the world, however desperately it failed at that goal.)

Anyway, the reason I'm replying again is to mention that with v3.2.2, much changes in terms of "layout with those annoying sidebars...."  The sidebar is gone, replaced by user-customizable button bars.  It has problems and limitations, but it definitely changes the UI again, and in a more "meta" level than v2 did, beginning to add flexibility for user-defined layouts. It's an encouraging direction, I think.

But the main point of this thread has been about the ability to use anything based on the new code for underpowered hardware, and I think that's an important question.  For one thing, integrated graphics remains the norm for stock desktops, and while those chipsets have greatly improved, they're still pretty slow for any SL viewer, especially anything based on post-Snowglobe code.

[Randall Ahren]

Yes, but the V2 layout has all those annoying notifications popping up on the right lower corner of my screen, which I hate. Do you know how irritating that is if you belong to a few busy groups with a lot of chat like NCI or Phoenix/FS support? 

I don't care if the sidebar is gone. It's not enough. I want V2 to look like V1. 

 

[Randall Ahren]

Yes, but the V2 layout has all those annoying notifications popping up on the right lower corner of my screen, which I hate. Do you know how irritating that is if you belong to a few busy groups with a lot of chat like NCI or Phoenix/FS support? 

I don't care if the sidebar is gone. It's not enough. I want V2 to look like V1. 

 

[Qie Niangao]

Agreed that the notifications are annoying as implemented in v2, and in v3.2.2 they merely move from the lower right to the upper right. Possibly they're slightly different in other ways, too, but not enough to make them really tolerable.  I wouldn't be satisfied, however, if they were only to revert to the old V1 way, which was almost as kludgy.  Instead, I'd much prefer something like Argent's proposal for an accordion widget for that.

[Qie Niangao]

Agreed that the notifications are annoying as implemented in v2, and in v3.2.2 they merely move from the lower right to the upper right. Possibly they're slightly different in other ways, too, but not enough to make them really tolerable.  I wouldn't be satisfied, however, if they were only to revert to the old V1 way, which was almost as kludgy.  Instead, I'd much prefer something like Argent's proposal for an accordion widget for that.

[Nerxual Oh]

Singularity Viewer is my new favorite, thanks for the suggestion Randall ^^ Only thing I shall miss is opition to change angles of my camera and the moving of my human avi's mouth when she types. The auto response is there! I see that I can change what permission I can control from groups like you do in friends' list, that I like and something new to me.

[Nerxual Oh]

Singularity Viewer is my new favorite, thanks for the suggestion Randall ^^ Only thing I shall miss is opition to change angles of my camera and the moving of my human avi's mouth when she types. The auto response is there! I see that I can change what permission I can control from groups like you do in friends' list, that I like and something new to me.

[Coby Foden]

---

Randall Ahren wrote:

Yes, but the V2 layout has all those annoying notifications popping up on the right lower corner of my screen, which I hate. Do you know how irritating that is if you belong to a few busy groups with a lot of chat like NCI or Phoenix/FS support? 

I don't care if the sidebar is gone. It's not enough. I want V2 to look like V1. 

---

Latest SL beta viewer (at the time of writing).

Screenshot, all controls disabled (Ctrl-Shift-U):

 

And with some UI elements shown:

The buttons can be arranged, one can select what buttons to show and what not. The annoying popups can be disabled too. No sidebar. Windows can be resized and arranged anywhere on the screen. How's that Randal, starting to look ok?

[Coby Foden]

---

Randall Ahren wrote:

Yes, but the V2 layout has all those annoying notifications popping up on the right lower corner of my screen, which I hate. Do you know how irritating that is if you belong to a few busy groups with a lot of chat like NCI or Phoenix/FS support? 

I don't care if the sidebar is gone. It's not enough. I want V2 to look like V1. 

---

Latest SL beta viewer (at the time of writing).

Screenshot, all controls disabled (Ctrl-Shift-U):

 

And with some UI elements shown:

The buttons can be arranged, one can select what buttons to show and what not. The annoying popups can be disabled too. No sidebar. Windows can be resized and arranged anywhere on the screen. How's that Randal, starting to look ok?