PE goes booom... :-(

[Mikki Miles]

PE went drastically up again, some models show doubled PE now :-(

it's no fun anymore, I think I have a fine BBQ now, with a cold beer...

[Gaia Clary]

For me it now looks more predictable and slightly better. Have you downloaded the newest viewer also ?

Although i still do not understand this:

 

 

Object	SC	PW	SW	PE	comment
1 Bowling Pin	0.8	0.6	2	2	as expected
4 separate  Bowling pins	3.2	2.2	8	8	as expected
Linkset containing 4 Bowling Pins	3.2	2.2	3	7	I expected 3 here (note: SW= 1 + 4*0.5)

I use the following abbreviations:

SC (Streaming cost)
PW (Physics Weight)
SW (Server Weight)
PE (Prim Equivalent) 

So the situation is slightly better compared to yesterday (where i got PE=9 for the linkset)

[Mikki Miles]

yes, Project Viewer - Mesh 234821

[Gaia Clary]

Fyi: I added another Jira CTS-683  Can it be so complicated to add the Server Weight to the Debug informations in the SL-editor ??? Then we can at least see the 3 weight values which are used to derive the PE ...

[arton Rotaru]

 I don't know where you looked at, but the latest cost fix which was the diameter/radius bug, is in the latest viewer. From what I can see, the wrong code is still in the server, so the numbers shown for prim equiv in the Edit floater are still wrong.

My meshes show lower numbers in Show Render Info now. My baby went down from 90 to 55. :matte-motes-big-grin-squint: But I don't celebrate to much by now, because, I fear there is still something wrong in the calculations.

[Mikki Miles]

the streaming costs went up, and the PE got even higher, some objects almost doubled their PE (from 7 to 12, and no, I didn't add scripts...)

[Drongle McMahon]

Which server is that on? The experimental server 234799 had the diameter bug. One effect of that was to make the size-related increase in streaming cost twice as fast as it was supposed to be. The previous ordinary server didn't have the bug, but it didn't use the new triangle-budget-based numbers. I am waiting for viewer 234875 now, but the previous viewer 234821 has the fix for the diameter/radius bug. I don't know if there is a server yet that matches that - fixed bug and triangle-budget stuff.

[Mikki Miles]

Sie befinden sich in 205694.0, 178346.0, 23.1 in Mesh Sandbox 30 auf sim7000.aditi.lindenlab.com (216.82.40.70:13000)Mesh Import 11.07.06.234799

[arton Rotaru]

Well yes, forget about PE by now. It's broken. The latest calulations are only shown in Show Info > Show Render Info > Selection Streaming Cost. Of course, this is accounting only by streaming cost, without the 'add script' and such stuff.

[Leeza Catteneo]

I just test uploaded a simple item made of 6 sculpties which is 960 PE as mesh I think thats funny. Does mesh really challenge the servers or so that much harder than sculpty vertices do?

What is a reasonable PE for accessoires anyways? It would depend on the item and modeling skillz and the way you achive your goal. But what would be like an average and a maximum PE which would be acceptable for the SL community?

 

Any ideas? =D

Leeza

[Mylar]

---

Leeza Catteneo wrote:

I just test uploaded a simple item made of 6 sculpties which is 960 PE as mesh

I think thats funny. Does mesh really challenge the servers or so that much harder than sculpty vertices do?

What is a reasonable PE for accessoires anyways? It would depend on the item and modeling skillz and the way you achive your goal. But what would be like an average and a maximum PE which would be acceptable for the SL community?

 

Any ideas? =D

Leeza

---

so you uploaded the actual sculpties as meshes? Sculpties use a lot of unnecessary faces. I have a 6 prim sculpty item that I was able to get to 3 PE with mesh (and it looks better than the sculpty one).

[Charlar Linden]

It's also impoarnt to note that when you see a 'prim cost' for a sculptie or prim, all this ever meant was the number of independant objects in the selection. That count has absolutely no relation to the objects impact on the server, network usage, or physics calculations cost.

I think everyone is already aware that it has no relation to rendering cost; this is just more of the same.

You cannot compare a prim and sculpty with a mesh to determine relative efficiency. That way lies madness.

Efficiency here is defined as how much load is generated across all the systems that support SL.

I believe that as people get comfortable with the additional levers available to them with meshes (like LoD models and Physics models), people will start noticing that well made meshes are competitive with prims and sculpties, and builds that use mostly meshes will run more smoothly. I see it already with our mesh beta users.

Cheers

Charlar

Charlar

[Leeza Catteneo]

---

Mylar wrote:

so you uploaded the actual sculpties as meshes? Sculpties use a lot of unnecessary faces. I have a 6 prim sculpty item that I was able to get to 3 PE with mesh (and it looks better than the sculpty one).

---

Yes =) It was just for fun and I uploaded an item which is already in SL build of sculpted prims. It is 6 prims in SL now. The same and untouched maya scene exported as a dae file and uploaded as a mesh would be 960 PE =D

Of course a mesh really doesnt need that much faces. But now I wonder what PE could be considered as a PE which would be acceptable by the SL community. I remember a time when the people were inspecting each others rendering costs  

My point is: If you sell meshed items with too much PE in the opinion of too many people it could affect the business negatively at some point.

For example: I made a ~60PE  item which looks hardly better than a sculpted version would look like. It looks really awesome with ~230PE, tho

 

 

[Charlar Linden]

Leeza, that's a really interesting question, and one that perhaps should be it's own thread. Others have touched on the subject before, would you be willing to start it up?

thanks for the thoughtful discussion

Charlar 

 

[Drongle McMahon]

Are you talking about attachments or rezzed objects? In the latter case, the PE is the amount of parcel prim allowance consumed by the object, and that will be what people are cponcerned about. A 630 PE mesh uses the whole allowance for 2760 sqm.  A 60 PE mesh consumes about half of the prims for a 512 parcel. So to the 512 owner, it might be acceptable for a house, but not for a chair.

For attachments, we are supposed to consider that land full of rezzed objects is the maximum acceptable to all users, including those with low-emd hardware. So if we say we can afford as much resource for avs as for unattached objects, then 630 PE would be about 4% of what's acceptable for attachments in a region. Twenty five avs with that much each attached would burden the system as much as the region filled to capacity with static mesh objects.

[Leeza Catteneo]

Hey Drongle =D

 

Thanks for the reply! I opened a thread for this topic: 

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mesh/PE-Reasonable-PE-for-attachments-accessoires/td-p/1031097

 

Would you mind to copy your answer over to it  because I think its really helpful? =D

Leeza