Please, increase max # of roles in "group" from 10 to 12 (or more)

[Angelor Galanter]

My region is group-owned, and I require more roles than "8" that I can create and assign. Group has a limit of "10," but the "everyone" and "owner" roles are "fixed." leaving me with only "8" to assign.

I can't simply make a new group to add roles because they don't have access to the "admin functions" on the group-owned land. For example, in a business you have:

President

Executive VP

Vice President

Secretary

Treasurer

Chaplain/Counselor

Builder/Creator

Manager/Admin/Moderator

That is "8" roles, and doesn't include marketing/advertising, Entertainers (Live singers & DJ's), Entertainment Manager, Staff (like hosts), etc.

It would be ideal if we can have 18 usable roles out of 20 (everyone and owner included).

What do you think?

[Katherine Heartsong]

Definitely file a suggestion on the LL board for this, agree 100%. No reason that I can fathom it couldn't be as many as 40+, like groups.

[Love Zhaoying]

I think, for the roles you list where there is only "one" person who would be in the "RL equivalent" role, it does not "map" well to a "Group Role"

I think this because to me, "Group Roles" are intended (as far as I understand) to be used where you would have "more than one person" in a Role.  Except perhaps when you only want "1 owner" (guy in control of the group), and maybe "1 treasurer" (money guy).

Using your examples, what different "rights" would a President vs. Vice-President have in a Group?  (Using existing "group role rights"..)

 

[Angelor Galanter]

6 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I think, for the roles you list where there is only "one" person who would be in the "RL equivalent" role, it does not "map" well to a "Group Role"

I think this because to me, "Group Roles" are intended (as far as I understand) to be used where you would have "more than one person" in a Role.  Except perhaps when you only want "1 owner" (guy in control of the group), and maybe "1 treasurer" (money guy).

Using your examples, what different "rights" would a President vs. Vice-President have in a Group?  (Using existing "group role rights"..)

 

In our case, as a Motorcycle Club that supports music venues & clubs, we have multiple people in various roles (entertainers now up to 21+, EVP's and VP's will be 2-4, hosts 7+). Across groups we have nearly 400 people, and management needs to be scalable. 

 

[Katherine Heartsong]

I can see more than 8 needed. Example might be a popular music spot that would rather not use two (or three) different group for guests vs staff vs performers. Let's assume it's a music dance club ...

1. Everyone (renamed to Club Guests)
2. Club Owner
3. Club Manager (not quite Owner rights right but fairly powerful)
4. Club Staff (some power to ban for example, but let's say not landscape etc)
5. Club Host
6. Club DJ
7. Club Dancer
8. Club VIP
9. Club Platinum Member
10. Club Investor
11. Club Bouncer/Security

Just saying instead of breaking the Club into two groups, why not one with a wider range of roles available?

Edited November 26 by Katherine Heartsong

[Wulfie Reanimator]

I think there's a conflict in how people use group roles vs the functionality tied to them.

Most people use group roles for titles, but roles are primarily meant to be used for different permissions within the group.

For example, is there really a difference in what permissions/capabilities a DJ should have instead of a dancer? Or a VIP vs 'platinum' member? Or a host vs security? Or a secretary vs treasurer? Or a VP vs executive VP?

Edited November 26 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Angelor Galanter]

14 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

For example, is there really a difference in what permissions/capabilities a DJ should have instead of a dancer? Or a VIP vs 'platinum' member? Or a host vs security? Or a secretary vs treasurer? Or a VP vs executive VP?

There are a LOT of permissions to dole out per role: 

 

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Group

[Wulfie Reanimator]

Just now, Angelor Galanter said:

There are a LOT of permissions to dole out per role

I'm aware. Could you break down what permissions each of your existing roles have?

[Katherine Heartsong]

1 hour ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

For example, is there really a difference in what permissions/capabilities a DJ should have instead of a dancer? Or a VIP vs 'platinum' member? Or a host vs security? Or a secretary vs treasurer? Or a VP vs executive VP?

In my mind, yes, the roles I used as an example have very clearly different permissions. A DJ needs to rezz his/her stage equipment, not necessary for a host. VIP guests vs platinum? Platinum member may be allowed to invite other to join the main group, a VIP not. Host vs security? Yes, perhaps I only allow security to ban/eject people or enforce dress codes, taking that burden off of a host who I simply want to greet and entertain and not deal with the problem clientele like that. A host sends notices about events what's happening, I don't need security doing that. Different levels of manager depending on how much control I want to give over the venue/land/stream etc.

I can get more atomic as well, but there are so many permissions in a role, it's easy to break it down into specific things.

Edited November 26 by Katherine Heartsong

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

For example, is there really a difference in what permissions/capabilities a DJ should have instead of a dancer?

A dancer shouldn't need to change the stream..

[Angelor Galanter]

12 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

A dancer shouldn't need to change the stream..

I agree that a "dancer" may not need to change the stream. However, (s)he may also be a builder or creator who may need to edit terrain, or create new objects under main group, who doesn't have another title because we're out of roles (and we can't give blanket permissions to "everyone.")

 

[Rowan Amore]

Good to.see you added it to the feedback site...

https://feedback.secondlife.com/feature-requests/p/please-increase-new-roles-in-groups-from-8-to-12

[Rowan Amore]

27 minutes ago, Angelor Galanter said:

I agree that a "dancer" may not need to change the stream. However, (s)he may also be a builder or creator who may need to edit terrain, or create new objects under main group, who doesn't have another title because we're out of roles (and we can't give blanket permissions to "everyone.")

 

The dancer could be in more than one role, switching when necessary?

[Angelor Galanter]

24 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Good to.see you added it to the feedback site...

https://feedback.secondlife.com/feature-requests/p/please-increase-new-roles-in-groups-from-8-to-12

Wish I could do an "@everyone" here. I ask that anyone who finds this an important update to "group" to go vote on it at the above link.

[Wulfie Reanimator]

8 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

A dancer shouldn't need to change the stream..

The problem with me giving specific examples is that anyone (including me) can come up with counter-examples to those specific things. My point is, you could probably condense some roles together since they can get away with the same permissions, but we still like having those similar roles separate because we want to give them separate titles. I wish the title and role features were somehow separated, regardless of how many roles we can use.

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

The problem with me giving specific examples is that anyone (including me) can come up with counter-examples to those specific things. My point is, you could probably condense some roles together since they can get away with the same permissions, but we still like having those similar roles separate because we want to give them separate titles. I wish the title and role features were somehow separated, regardless of how many roles we can use.

Would this include allowing multiple titles for the same role? That makes sense..

In the example I gave, here's a scenario: Dancers may only need to be added to tip jars, which can be outside of the group/role system. Allowing dancers to change a stream could cause problems If a dancer decides to do whatever they want. However, managers and DJ's both need control over the stream.

I think the OP's suggestion is good, but if I understand correctly, when combined with your suggestion it's even better.

[Alwin Alcott]

14 hours ago, Angelor Galanter said:

 

What do you think?

limit the amount or group some functions for your group ... 

[Katherine Heartsong]

6 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

The problem with me giving specific examples is that anyone (including me) can come up with counter-examples to those specific things. My point is, you could probably condense some roles together since they can get away with the same permissions, but we still like having those similar roles separate because we want to give them separate titles. I wish the title and role features were somehow separated, regardless of how many roles we can use.

I wasn't suggesting that someone couldn't come up with counter-examples, or even that in many cases roles couldn't be simplified, I was responding simply to the question of "give me examples of why you need so many roles". Several of us have provided valid examples which means the need is there. All I was trying to do.

I personally like the suggestion for more role slots because I can see the use, and think it's a valid add with demonstrable benefits to group owners.

The size of the abilities/roles table lends weight to the idea ... a counter suggestions is why are there so many different roles needed? Why do LL have that much breakdown? Can't that be simplified? If not, then the need for very atomic-level permissions in roles is valid = need more slots.

How this ask ranks on a LL impact vs effort chart in a developer/engineering discussion to determine if it's worth tackling in a dev sprint is not something I can speak to.