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AmyNevilly

Why is it not acceptable to walk around naked?

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I mean, we're all pixels? Why are peach coloured ones discriminated against?

Can't naked pixels live in harmony with clothed ones?

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you can in sims that allow it..it's allowed in moderate as long as the land owners don't have a problem with it..

unless you are talking about people that would look at someone who is nude and give one of those PFFT remarks..

Pfft them back  then tell them those pants make them look fat hehehehe

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The bigger question behind this one is why is it not okay to walk around nude in real life?

In Vancouver where I live, nudity is widely accepted and there is ample opportunity given for these freedoms, but in most parts of the world, this freedom is non-existent.

The answer to "why we can not walk around naked" is some long time ago in pre-medieval times, we gave up the rights to our bodies to follow the moral codes of strict religious leaders. To not follow these codes carried punishment most severe, even death!

Today, the state still controls how we are allowed to present ourselves in public.

No matter how hot it gets, or how impractical clothing is in a certain situation, you must remain covered by law :matte-motes-crying:

With the advent of body scanning (so far only in airports but all sensor technology is becoming cheaper & thus more prevalent) combined with the decline in popularity of all the religions which provide the "reasons" for clothes, I'd expect clothing someday to become optional in most parts of the developed world, probably by 2050.

We will move forward someday, whenever we realise this rule no longer serves any purpose.

The mandatory-ness of clothing is just a long running social trend that today seems increasingly outmoded.

Once most real life environments allow one to walk around naked without issue, Second Life will follow suite. I think Linden Lab only has this rule in an attempt to make the Second Life environment more palatable to the world's many cultures where simple nudity is still considered a ghastly offensive sin.

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I went to a nudist beach once irl and it was such a new experience. I loved it and realised clothes are an evil of society that we should be free of! :matte-motes-grin:

Seriously tho if I was to turn up in even a moderate sim they would tell me to put clothes on or I am banned ;(

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Never went on nudistic beach irl. I think that those peopel that can are brave. 
It would be really strange feeling... 

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Me & my partner go to a nude beach several times each summer. Once you get over the "strange" factor, it feels very natural.... cause it is :matte-motes-asleep-2:

Last month I participated in the World Naked Bike Ride. It happens just once a year, a chance to bike around town in the nude, very fun! It isn't technically legal by law, but police allow it (and give us nice escort) because it is harmless, & the community reaction is very purely accepting & supportive... everyone loves it!

 

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if you can see naked( full frontal) actors in any national television program in your country today then its ok to  be naked all the time in any sim in secondlife. ...

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WADE1 Jya wrote:

The bigger question behind this one is
why is it not okay to walk around nude in real life?

The answer to "why we can not walk around naked" is some long time ago in pre-medieval times, we gave up the rights to our bodies to follow the moral codes of strict religious leaders. To not follow these codes carried punishment most severe, even death!

Males and females both tend to feel 'threatened' by the presence of a male outside of the tribal group.

Lets take an idea there and run with it - to a conclusion that may or may not make any sense, but in true anthropology fashion is based on ethnocentric assumptions of a judgemental outsider. In this case, me. ;)

Why nudism fails in a larger society.

In the human brain the tribal group can go up to perhaps as many as 150 individuals (the number of people most humans are capable of individually personally knowing - according to some anthropology babble I was fed ages ago - so since it comes from anthropologists its probably an ethnocentric lie - but lets work with it here for a moment).

Humans are somewhere inbetween Chimpanzzes and Bonobos.

If a Chimp sees an unknown male the tribal male chimps will attack and rip the unknown male limb from limb - literally tearing the poor victim apart. Humans too have done this on many occaisions... lynchings very often include mutilation of a specific part of the anatomy... But we have also found a less lethal solution: make the outsider male into a eunich, and he's no longer a threat... Not that he tends to find this ideal...

If a chimp sees a female, she will be beaten into submission. And then beaten again at regular intervals to keep her from running off. Humans have used this tactic also...

If a Bonobo, male or female, sees an unknown male or female, the two will have sex. Bonobos will have sex with anything bonobo-ish that will stop and accept the offer - regardless of age, gender, tribal bonds, or even hostility or friendship. Bonobos resolve almost all disputes by having sex to diffuse any dangerous levels of testosterone. Bonobos are much rarer than Chimps even though the two look nearly identical - because they occupy similar ranges and chimps are more willing to fight to defend a spot. Humans will -also- use this tactic to form parts of their social order.

But overall we're somewhere inbetween.

Humans have been tamed. As a tame animal we have less fear of strangers and outsiders. We use this to enable us to build large complex societies. But its not perfect; we retain the ability to be aggressive and often lose control of it - both of which have -also- enabled us to win out against predators and hold large societies together.

We don't kill strange males all of the time - we've got the ability to form other solutions. But we don't need to break out in all out orgies just to stop an argument, though most teenage males wish we did (while running around threatening violence on each other and thereby demonstrating that we're no more capable of being bonobos than we are of sinking into chimpdom). :D

Nudity can be asexual. And in small tribal units - such as Amazon tribes or nudist colonies - where there are no strange outsider males, or where one showing up can be dealt with without murdering him - humans can handle nudity.

But on a larger scale, a male displaying... is a threat to the tribe... All our chimpiness would come out and we'd kill each other.

You can even see some of this within nudist colonies - which very often have a negative reaction to an erect male, or to single men: both are a threat to 'our women'... Not just a threat the males feel, but the females also. We all know its a bit creepy to have some naked guy there swinging his stuff at you... But if we were bonobos we'd just give him a treat... ;)

Instead we get 'defensive' whereas the males will get 'aggressive'.

So while we have moral dramas about nudity - I think the sad truth is we're just not evolved to handle it on a large scale.

Clothing's real purpose seems to enable us to have social units larger than 150 people without the 'non-dominant' males being killed or having their sexuality 'removed'. While clothed, the instinct that sees a strange male as a threat is supressed. You certaintly don't see any nudist societies of a large scale. Go beyond the size my own Amazonians tribal ancestors and regardless of climate, laws, religion, or whatever - people seem to start putting on clothes. Even among the Amazonians who are traditionally nude - they seem to have little resistance to wearing clothing when they leave the 'safety' of the tribal unit. We just know on some level, that it protects us from more than just bugs and wind.

 

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

[...]

If a Chimp sees an unknown male the tribal male chimps will attack and rip the unknown male limb from limb - literally tearing the poor victim apart. Humans too have done this on many occaisions... lynchings very often include mutilation of a specific part of the anatomy... But we have also found a less lethal solution: make the outsider male into a eunich, and he's no longer a threat... Not that he tends to find this ideal...

If a chimp sees a female, she will be beaten into submission. And then beaten again at regular intervals to keep her from running off. Humans have used this tactic also...

If a Bonobo, male or female, sees an unknown male or female, the two will have sex. Bonobos will have sex with anything bonobo-ish that will stop and accept the offer - regardless of age, gender, tribal bonds, or even hostility or friendship. Bonobos resolve almost all disputes by having sex to diffuse any dangerous levels of testosterone. Bonobos are much rarer than Chimps even though the two look nearly identical - because they occupy similar ranges and chimps are more willing to fight to defend a spot. Humans will -also- use this tactic to form parts of their social order.

But overall we're somewhere inbetween.

The first type of behavior is very common in internet forums, while I've found the second type to be more common in SL :)

PS: "Bonobos Islands" might have been the worst possible choice for the new teen continent.

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koto Nizna wrote:

if you can see naked( full frontal) actors in any national television program in your country today then its ok to  be naked all the time in any sim in secondlife. ...

 

I think that's for the sim owner to decide. My sim is divided into two areas: A store, where I expect people to leave their clothes on (even RL sex shops have a no-nudity policy), and a nude beach, where visitors may dress or undress however they like. It doesn't matter if a sim is rated adult, there might still be a dress code.

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AmyNevilly wrote:

I went to a nudist beach once irl and it was such a new experience. I loved it and realised clothes are an evil of society that we should be free of! :matte-motes-grin:

Seriously tho if I was to turn up in even a moderate sim they would tell me to put clothes on or I am banned ;(

My RL opinion about clothes depends on the season. Clothes seem a lot less evil in the winter, don't you think? It also depends on the age, body weight, the level of personal hygiene, and the amount of body hair of the people around me. Some of them I wouldn't want to meet at a nude beach.

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Thanks for sharing your detailed theory Pussycat, I enjoyed reading that!

I do wonder if we will ever completely evolve beyond animalistic threat-response kind of behaviors. The outsider, the unknown stranger & aggressive males are definitely at the crux of these difficulties....

Mass enlightenment or/and future technology could negate some -- or all -- of these issues.

Still, a large scale wholly nudist civilization might be just as odd as a clothing-enforced one -- sometimes clothes are simply practical!

Anyways, I'd like to see that someday being unclothed is no big deal, that one could commute about this way safely without fear of attacks or harassment. In a more enlightened society, nudity could be considered not inherently sexual or threatening for anyone, just another of many possible modes of dress :matte-motes-asleep-2:

 

"Clothes seem a lot less evil in the winter, don't you think?"

Hah Ishtara! I agree, I would literally die to not have clothes through a Canadian winter!

I think you hit upon a solution there for all the embittered naturalists!

We simply set all "Moderate" sims to be permanently winter... then one feels very foolish to not put something on :matte-motes-silly:

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I think most other visitors of a sim will feel quite unwell, if there appear someone naked, especially if its a man. I believe its because nudity is closely conectet to erotic and sex in most sociectys and that are topics which aren´t welcome in every region. Some may now say its natural, but with that argument you can also open a discussion about sex in puplic, cause that is also natural. I hope you know what I mean.......The owner of a sim just keep save that his oder her visitors feel well.

 

One interesting point was mentioned here: Tribes in the jungle, which are used to run around naked. I heard in a psychologyclass that the feeling of shame like we feel when we would be naked infornt of others don´t come automaticly with the level of wearing clothes. A good example for that was a tripe where the woman just wear a small band around their hips and nothing more. A scientist asked a young woman if she would give him her band, he thought she wouldn´t mind that because for him she looks already naked. But the woman blushes and seems to feel uncomfortable. Her friends in the background giggle. The whole situation was the same like if a scientist from far away would ask a woman on some of our beaches to give him her swimwear, because it it pretty to him.

The feeling of unwellness with being naked comes from feeling unprotected at some level of soul said the academic.

 

And sorry for my english, I try my best. :matte-motes-bashful:

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I think you are trolling to get your ad on threads.  You rezzed over seven months ago.  Surely, you have learned something in that time. 

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Syo Emerald wrote:

A good example for that was a tripe where the woman just wear a small band around their hips and nothing more. A scientist asked a young woman if she would give him her band, he thought she wouldn´t mind that because for him she looks already naked. But the woman blushes and seems to feel uncomfortable. Her friends in the background giggle. The whole situation was the same like if a scientist from far away would ask a woman on some of our beaches to give him her swimwear, because it it pretty to him.


There's a typical anthropologists complete and utter failure to actually understand the culture they're operating in though.

The giving of the band might very well have been a marriage proposal or something similar - and have nothing to do with a nudity taboo.

The "scientist" though - makes a snap instant judgement based on his -own- culture and assumptions, and then concludes the culture is like this and such.

Ask almost any 'indigenous person' who's landed in the 'first world' now what they think of how they're home culture has been interpreted and be prepared for hours of angry comments about 'western idiots getting it all wrong.' You're easiest source of this is any Native American - people who are all around Americans, and yet US 'scientists' still work very hard to force wrongful interpretations of them down the throats of everyone else... Would be -very- interesting if a pack of these so-called scientests showed up and starting declaring odd things about Anglo-Americans, and calling the Anglos missinformed about their own culture when they tried to correct them...

 

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Venus Petrov wrote:

I think you are trolling to get your ad on threads.  You rezzed over seven months ago.  Surely, you have learned something in that time. 

A lot of people have ad banners in their sigs - nothing wrong with that. I had one on the old forums for a long time.

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AmyNevilly wrote: Can't naked pixels live in harmony with clothed ones?

'fraid not; the naked ones barely tolerate the rest of us.

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It is not just the banner. It is also the question.  One might expect this of a newbie.  This OP has been around for 7 months, owns a business, has a website, etc.  She also agreed to the ToS when she first signed on to SL so the simple answer would be 'it is against ToS'.

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If every question was just always answered with the simplest answer that is a little boring and allows zero discussion.

This was posted in the "forums" for discussion, not in "answers".

The complex answer has already touched on several issues applicable to Second Life and beyond & definitely serves for interesting discussion.

Sorry but I don't at all think it is "trolling" to question standards, norms & conventions in a friendly way....

 

 

For example, why are simulated scenes of gratuitous violence often considered much more tolerable than simulated non-sexual nudity?

Why does our society (in SL, and outside of SL) often blanket ban non-sexual nudity (for example: bathing, art, breastfeeding, etc)?

Could an accurate simulation of an Amazon tribe or a Japanese hot springs ever be considered "Moderate" in Second Life? Seems not, but very often simulations of violence & death get a free pass. What does this say about our culture?

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@Wade:  I agree with you re: the simpliest answer and I support energtic and healthy debate.  What I have seen over the past couple of days is this OP posting several threads (links here) with both her and her business partner posting several times in each thread with their banners shouting their business.  In one, she asks how to get pregnant.  In another she asks why she cannot find business clothing in SL.  She projects herself in her profile as a search engine expert.

I have no issue with people putting banners in their posts.  It is this combination of things that lead me to call her out as a troll.

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