If you put PBR materials on an object, but also Blinn-Phong textures on the same object?

[Secret Witch]

If you put PBR materials in the PBR tab of an object and also Non-PBR textures in the Blinn-Phong tab of the same object, what happens? 

What I'm hoping: That people with a PBR viewer will see PBR texturing on the object, whereas people sticking with old viewer will see the Blinn-Phong textures?

[Wulfie Reanimator]

6 minutes ago, Cherry Venus said:

If you put PBR materials in the PBR tab of an object and also Non-PBR textures in the Blinn-Phong tab of the same object, what happens? 

What I'm hoping: That people with a PBR viewer will see PBR texturing on the object, whereas people sticking with old viewer will see the Blinn-Phong textures?

That's correct.

[Secret Witch]

17 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

That's correct.

Great! Thanks!

[BJoyful]

That's certainly possible and works great now during the transition, but when all authorized TPVs become PBR only in the not-too-distant future, those extra textures will be just a waste of precious bandwidth... unless there's a way to automatically remove them once redundant ♥

[Secret Witch]

7 hours ago, BJoyful said:

That's certainly possible and works great now during the transition, but when all authorized TPVs become PBR only in the not-too-distant future, those extra textures will be just a waste of precious bandwidth... unless there's a way to automatically remove them once redundant ♥

Yeah that's not great but the only other way is making separate versions of everything which doubles my workload when setting up HUDs and packing it all into folders.

[Tonk Tomcat]

On 9/23/2024 at 9:45 PM, BJoyful said:

That's certainly possible and works great now during the transition, but when all authorized TPVs become PBR only in the not-too-distant future, those extra textures will be just a waste of precious bandwidth... unless there's a way to automatically remove them once redundant ♥

If you use the albedo and normal map from the pbr mat is that increasing the texture memory or does both count just as the same texture?

[BJoyful]

45 minutes ago, Tonk Tomcat said:

If you use the albedo and normal map from the pbr mat is that increasing the texture memory or does both count just as the same texture?

From my limited knowledge, they would all be counted as the same second texture.  PBR does also use materials, but in a more efficient way for truer, more realistic way than the Blinn-Phong method.

Quoting Tim Briggs in the Quora forum... " 

A diffuse/spec/bump shader as you call it does not represent a material correctly in all lighting conditions. It simply does a diffuse calculation and then a specular calculation, then adds them together. This may result in a greater energy return than the light falling on it.

An energy conserving shader can never return more than the maximum light energy recieved, and it is divided between the reflective and diffuse components. This comes closer to real world material behavior. It behaves in a more natural manner, and works reliably in a variety of lighting scenarios."

[Tonk Tomcat]

5 minutes ago, BJoyful said:

From my limited knowledge, they would all be counted as the same second texture.  PBR does also use materials, but in a more efficient way for truer, more realistic way than the Blinn-Phong method.

Quoting Tim Briggs in the Quora forum... " 

A diffuse/spec/bump shader as you call it does not represent a material correctly in all lighting conditions. It simply does a diffuse calculation and then a specular calculation, then adds them together. This may result in a greater energy return than the light falling on it.

An energy conserving shader can never return more than the maximum light energy recieved, and it is divided between the reflective and diffuse components. This comes closer to real world material behavior. It behaves in a more natural manner, and works reliably in a variety of lighting scenarios."

Okay, good. So i'm coding my hud to use the pbr material and also add the albedo/normal as a classic texture fallback for non-pbr users. The texture memory count should be more or less the same then (sadly at least in firestorm i only see classic textures in inspect window, pbr memory usage is not visible yet?). The only additional texture for the classic textures is the spec map, but due to the nature of how the classic textures work, I only use very small res 256*256 spec maps.

[Frionil Fang]

51 minutes ago, Tonk Tomcat said:

he texture memory count should be more or less the same then (sadly at least in firestorm i only see classic textures in inspect window, pbr memory usage is not visible yet?)

It's a bit hard to test, but I checked on the LL viewer that has slightly more granular texture console stats (control-shift-3). Made 3 cubes, gave them a blank PBR material and made an alt zoom in on them (so they aren't involved in the actual texture changing process forcing them to load). Gave them an unique 2048x2048 texture each on the BP diffuse on the main viewer -> alt's texture memory usage didn't change. Removed the PBR material on the main viewer -> alt's memory use jumped by over 10 MB per object, so the conclusion is that no, the BP textures aren't being kept in memory underneath the PBR materials, even though they're loaded into cache.

Oh, and I did report the lack of PBR infos in the Firestorm inspector, hopefully they'll get added since it's quite a useful feature to ballpark how resource hungry things are.

Edited September 29 by Frionil Fang

[Salt Peppermint]

On 9/23/2024 at 7:34 PM, Cherry Venus said:

If you put PBR materials in the PBR tab of an object and also Non-PBR textures in the Blinn-Phong tab of the same object, what happens? 

What I'm hoping: That people with a PBR viewer will see PBR texturing on the object, whereas people sticking with old viewer will see the Blinn-Phong textures?

Yes. If you do both, just make sure to apply the BP first and then the PBR . 
as for sales , myself and bunch of other creators who already went PBR only , didn’t have any dip in sales at all 

[ZortyTheExplorer]

or help force ll go pbr total by not providing bp backup

up to creator what side to be on

make more work or hold ll to commit to pbr by only support pbr

[Secret Witch]

On 10/5/2024 at 10:29 PM, Salt Peppermint said:

Yes. If you do both, just make sure to apply the BP first and then the PBR . 
as for sales , myself and bunch of other creators who already went PBR only , didn’t have any dip in sales at all 

Good to know!

[rainbow Fairymeadow]

On 10/7/2024 at 11:53 AM, ZortyTheExplorer said:

or help force ll go pbr total by not providing bp backup

up to creator what side to be on

make more work or hold ll to commit to pbr by only support pbr

For some of us that's just fine, but for people on a budget for whatever life reason it may be, PBR only screws a whole bunch of people out of being in SL even if they have been here years and years

[Alwin Alcott]

I use this winter pbr to cover my non pbr made region landscape .. i would normally ruin the mesh texturing for winter and had to re rezz a new copy, but now i simply add the snow as pbr over the normal one for a month or so, and when i go back to spring, the original texture will be visisble again after removing the pbr.

[Myrdin Sommer]

Does this ' double  layering' effect lag/CPU?
 

Edited November 29 by Myrdin Sommer