For those unwilling or cannot upgrade to FS viewer 7

[shireena1]

https://www.firestormviewer.org/firestorm-6-6-17-will-not-be-blocked-but-you-will-lose-your-voice/?click_source=firestorm_splash

But remember of course, that you will start to see more and more white or plywood textures as PBR takes hold.

[shireena1]

Forgot to add the obvious meme lol.

[WeFlossDaily]

26 minutes ago, shireena1 said:

But remember of course, that you will start to see more and more white or plywood textures as PBR takes hold.

Not a big deal.

Also, I bet PBR goes the way of the puppet thing now.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

10 minutes ago, WeFlossDaily said:

Not a big deal.

Also, I bet PBR goes the way of the puppet thing now.

Not a chance.

[WeFlossDaily]

19 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Not a chance.

Slava Forward-Render! lol. =P

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

28 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

48 minutes ago, WeFlossDaily said:

Not a big deal.

Also, I bet PBR goes the way of the puppet thing now.

Not a chance.

I imagine LL are paying very close attention to viewer adoption rates and concurrency right now and, depending on how many users they project will be affected, they may even extended the grace period so that users can continue using non-PBR viewers a while longer.

However if that does turn out to be the case I expect they'll also make it clear that the old deprecated renderers are no longer supported and any issues arising from their use are essentially not their problem.  They certainly aren't going to abandon the new PBR renderer since it's apparently at the heart of all their other planned features.

[lovestofu]

Just now, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

I imagine LL are paying very close attention to viewer adoption rates and concurrency right now and, depending on how many users they project will be affected, they may even extended the grace period so that users can continue using non-PBR viewers a while longer.

However if that does turn out to be the case I expect they'll also make it clear that the old deprecated renderers are no longer supported and any issues arising from their use are essentially not their problem.  They certainly aren't going to abandon the new PBR renderer since it's apparently at the heart of all their other planned features.

Linden Lab could make this problem go away overnight by adding so-called "power user" features to their own viewer.  If the official viewer provided the user with options to hide Look At targets, log chat messages, and access classic search, there would be little use for Firestorm or other Third-Party Viewers.  Very few people use Area Search or other advanced features of Firestorm and those who do probably have little issue rendering PBR.

[WeFlossDaily]

16 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

I imagine LL are paying very close attention to viewer adoption rates and concurrency right now and, depending on how many users they project will be affected, they may even extended the grace period so that users can continue using non-PBR viewers a while longer.

However if that does turn out to be the case I expect they'll also make it clear that the old deprecated renderers are no longer supported and any issues arising from their use are essentially not their problem.  They certainly aren't going to abandon the new PBR renderer since it's apparently at the heart of all their other planned features.

I don't think there is a grace period. I think the TPVs can and will implement, copy/paste, and write their rendering code however they want. Considering that rendering is handled client-side, there probably isn't much to stop them from doing this aside from LL telling them that they can't, which LL is apparently not doing. Some devs may choose to continue supporting viewers that everybody can use. For example Firestorms current non-PBR viewer is a great candidate for somebody to fork and go forward.

 

 

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

10 minutes ago, lovestofu said:

Linden Lab could make this problem go away overnight by adding so-called "power user" features to their own viewer.  If the official viewer provided the user with options to hide Look At targets, log chat messages, and access classic search, there would be little use for Firestorm or other Third-Party Viewers.  Very few people use Area Search or other advanced features of Firestorm and those who do probably have little issue rendering PBR.

Aside from the current performance issues with Firestorm I don't believe the LL PBR viewer is going to be that much better performance-wise in the long run but I do agree they should consider implementing a few of the more useful features from other viewers into the official viewer.  As for very few people using Area Search, I don't use it myself but recently asked in another thread what made it so essential and received about two pages of replies explaining why people couldn't possibly live without it so I suspect there are plenty of people who would disagree with you on that subject.

 

7 minutes ago, WeFlossDaily said:

I don't think there is a grace period. I think the TPVs can and will implement, copy/paste, and write their rendering code however they want. Considering that rendering is handled client-side, there probably isn't much to stop them from doing this aside from LL telling them that they can't, which LL is apparently not doing. Some devs may choose to continue supporting viewers that everybody can use. For example Firestorms current non-PBR viewer is a great candidate for somebody to fork and go forward.

I don't know enough about their policy on older viewers, etc. other than what I've read on these forums about older viewers getting blocked as newer ones are released.  I'm sure some enterprising TPV devs will find ways to support people on older hardware.  At this point I think it's down to creators and residents to start making the most out of the new features and enticing more and more of their fellow residents to hop on board the PBR hype train (hardware permitting of course).

[Rowan Amore]

21 minutes ago, lovestofu said:

log chat messages

Don't ALL viewers log chat?

I couldn't live without chat commands and the Favorite Wearables options.  Since LL recently implemented See Friends Only, they've taken a step in the right direction.  There are more options than Area Search that people use regularly that aren't in the LL viewer.  

Does the LL viewer have an easy save backup settings option?  That's a lifesaver.

[WeFlossDaily]

25 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

don't know enough about their policy on older viewers, etc. other than what I've read on these forums about older viewers getting blocked as newer ones are released.  I'm sure some enterprising TPV devs will find ways to support people on older hardware.  At this point I think it's down to creators and residents to start making the most out of the new features and enticing more and more of their fellow residents to hop on board the PBR hype train (hardware permitting of course).

I think the TVPs choose to remove viewers that are broken by LL updates. But sometimes the TPV don't appear to bother with it. My fav one a* Catznip viewer doesn't let me change my profile pics but otherwise works fine. And you can still download Radegast with it's whacky pre-mesh renderer. There's a handful of pre-PBR viewers still that don't seem to be in too much of a hurry to update, either. At this point, I think exactly the opposite of you. I think the PBR hype-train is a disaster that is being pushed for a variety of illogical reasons that I will get burned at the stake for mentioning--so I won't. =]

Edited August 16 by WeFlossDaily
typo*

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

I imagine LL are paying very close attention to viewer adoption rates and concurrency right now and, depending on how many users they project will be affected, they may even extended the grace period so that users can continue using non-PBR viewers a while longer.

I assume you mean TPVs? The FS blog post clearly says "never be blocked." In other words, not a grace period, but a forever option. I can't imagine FS making such a promise without first running it past LL.

It won't be too long -- maybe a year, maybe less? -- before the experience of using a pre-PBR viewer is intolerably poor, of course. Once ground textures have gone PBR across the grid, there will be no escaping it.

I do think, though, that this might somewhat slow the adoption of PBR. As to whether that's a good thing or not -- well, that will depend on your role and perspective.

[Gabriele Graves]

18 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I do think, though, that this might somewhat slow the adoption of PBR. As to whether that's a good thing or not -- well, that will depend on your role and perspective.

I've got PBR underwear now and there's no going back for me.

Edited August 16 by Gabriele Graves

[PheebyKatz]

22 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

I've got PBR underwear now and there's no going back for me.

Does that mean people can see their faces in it? With the right viewer at least, I mean.

[BriannaLovey]

3 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I assume you mean TPVs? The FS blog post clearly says "never be blocked." In other words, not a grace period, but a forever option. I can't imagine FS making such a promise without first running it past LL.

It won't be too long -- maybe a year, maybe less? -- before the experience of using a pre-PBR viewer is intolerably poor, of course. Once ground textures have gone PBR across the grid, there will be no escaping it.

I do think, though, that this might somewhat slow the adoption of PBR. As to whether that's a good thing or not -- well, that will depend on your role and perspective.

Every single time. No exceptions.

[Prokofy Neva]

6 hours ago, shireena1 said:

https://www.firestormviewer.org/firestorm-6-6-17-will-not-be-blocked-but-you-will-lose-your-voice/?click_source=firestorm_splash

But remember of course, that you will start to see more and more white or plywood textures as PBR takes hold.

I'm fine with that. They don't want more customers? They will persist with this nonsense. If the entire world turns into plywood and white spaces, I'm still good. Quite frankly, a lot of the Mainland has always looked that way even before PBR.

BTW, this development and announcement represent a triumph of reality over the wishful thinking and authoritarian impulses of the FS devs, and that's a good thing. The Lindens need to follow suit.

Edited August 16 by Prokofy Neva

[Anna Nova]

5 hours ago, lovestofu said:

Linden Lab could make this problem go away overnight by adding so-called "power user" features to their own viewer.  If the official viewer provided the user with options to hide Look At targets, log chat messages, and access classic search, there would be little use for Firestorm or other Third-Party Viewers.  Very few people use Area Search or other advanced features of Firestorm and those who do probably have little issue rendering PBR.

None of that makes the Linden Lab viewer run on Linux though.  Take away my Linux viewer, and I stop putting my $100 a month into Lindens.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

5 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

 

It won't be too long -- maybe a year, maybe less? -- before the experience of using a pre-PBR viewer is intolerably poor, of course. Once ground textures have gone PBR across the grid, there will be no escaping it.

 

I'll let you know how it looks and works in a year 😂

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

11 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I'll let you know how it looks and works in a year 😂

 

Actually, that would be good. I'd be interested to know!

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

5 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I assume you mean TPVs? The FS blog post clearly says "never be blocked." In other words, not a grace period, but a forever option. I can't imagine FS making such a promise without first running it past LL.

I haven't been keeping up to date with the developments regarding TPVs since I don't really use them often but I guess that decision isn't surprising given how many people have been trying non-PBR alternatives to Firestorm since they released their PBR viewer.

 

5 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

It won't be too long -- maybe a year, maybe less? -- before the experience of using a pre-PBR viewer is intolerably poor, of course. Once ground textures have gone PBR across the grid, there will be no escaping it.

I do think, though, that this might somewhat slow the adoption of PBR. As to whether that's a good thing or not -- well, that will depend on your role and perspective.

No doubt there will be a sharp increase in mesh terrain replacement products once ground textures are switched to PBR.

As to whether this slows the adoption of PBR I think it definitely will.  It will be interesting to see if it slows the adoption of PBR by residents enough to give creators time to learn to make good PBR content properly, otherwise we'll just be replacing non-PBR content with bad PBR content which would kind of defeat the whole point of all this upheaval.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

It will be interesting to see if it slows the adoption of PBR by residents enough to give creators time to learn to make good PBR content properly

I like a positive thinker!

[BilliJo Aldrin]

2 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I'm fine with that. They don't want more customers? They will persist with this nonsense. If the entire world turns into plywood and white spaces, I'm still good. Quite frankly, a lot of the Mainland has always looked that way even before PBR.

BTW, this development and announcement represent a triumph of reality over the wishful thinking and authoritarian impulses of the FS devs, and that's a good thing. The Lindens need to follow suit.

Most of mainland will remain unchanged. People are not gonna suddenly rebuild their places using PBR textures. Sure, the roads and ground will be a whited out mess, but most people build  over the ground. When mainland ground at my places is PBR, i'll rezz a prim over the flat parts of my parcels add a non PBR texture and fill the sloping parts in so thickly with plants that you won't see the ground anyway.

If all of belli disappears in a sea of whiteness because LL redoes everything in PBR textures, well, that's not a bad thing actually. Just think of the boost in frame rates. 😂

[Scylla Rhiadra]

7 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

If all of belli disappears in a sea of whiteness because LL redoes everything in PBR textures, well, that's not a bad thing actually.

But whatever would the HOA say????

As long as it's a "tasteful" whiteness, I suppose . . .

[BilliJo Aldrin]

4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

But whatever would the HOA say????

As long as it's a "tasteful" whiteness, I suppose . . .

 

 

the HOA would all be using a PBR viewer, they wouldn't know.

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

13 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I like a positive thinker!

Well, every cloud has a silver-lining... it's just that sometimes it requires a lot of mental gymnastics and a dash of blind optimism to see it. 😅