How Many Days Does It Take You to Cash Out of SL?

[Prokofy Neva]

I'll go first.

It always takes me the full "5-7 days" -- usually at least five, not counting weekends and holidays, and sometimes 7. This is always super annoying and like no other experience I have on PayPal where clients from far off countries send payments that I see in 24 hours if not 2 minutes.

I recently learned that a merchant whose store I used to shop at usually only waited 2 days, even outside the US.

Question: is this tailored to the country? The class of people? The individual? Apparently "age in SL" doesn't count but maybe "volume of sales" counts?

And now that we have signed a new Tillia TOS, will this in fact take 5-10 days?

Edited August 3 by Prokofy Neva

[Rowan Amore]

It does say it could take up to 30 days.  Did it say that before?

[Reid Parkin]

No more than 2 days. Last week it took one day. I can't understand why it takes some more time than others. Its never more than 2 days for me. 30 days is extreme. That must be when there are issues.

Edit to say I'm in Australia.

Edited August 4 by Reid Parkin

[Chic Aeon]

Might want to take a look at this thread if you haven't seen it.  While we were promised that "nothing would change" (see the Lab Gab video about the sale) it already has.

 

[Prokofy Neva]

9 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

It does say it could take up to 30 days.  Did it say that before?

Where does it say that?

[Prokofy Neva]

6 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

Might want to take a look at this thread if you haven't seen it.  While we were promised that "nothing would change" (see the Lab Gab video about the sale) it already has.

 

I'm the one who started that thread, Chic. And there is not a specific timeline in the TOS changes that I can see.

[Prokofy Neva]

6 hours ago, Reid Parkin said:

No more than 2 days. Last week it took one day. I can't understand why it takes some more time than others. Its never more than 2 days for me. 30 days is extreme. That must be when there are issues.

Edit to say I'm in Australia.

So you're in Australia, and another merchant who reports only 2 days is in France, and yet the company is based in the US, and here US residents are reporting the full 7 days.

So I'm going to take a WAG, admittedly only based on 2 reports, that those with higher volume, or content creators that LL wishes to encourage in their business, are getting the privilege of two days. No doubt we'll here a slew of defense of the Lindens and Tillia and a cry of "conspiracy theory". But I would like to get the story here. And the story I see is one of a "tier system" -- some people get the fast cashout the way they get discounted sims in bulk orders; others who are smaller don't get that special treatment.

[Rowan Amore]

3 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Where does it say that?

Section 4.3

The redemption request will be subject to a fee payable to Tilia, and the redemption will be processed within approximately five (5) to ten (10) business days following the request but may take up to thirty (30) days to process.

[Prokofy Neva]

5 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

Section 4.3

The redemption request will be subject to a fee payable to Tilia, and the redemption will be processed within approximately five (5) to ten (10) business days following the request but may take up to thirty (30) days to process.

Thanks. Somehow this didn't stick out in the other thread, if it was entered there.

Well, that's just ducky.

 

[Tjay Wicken]

54 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Thanks. Somehow this didn't stick out in the other thread, if it was entered there.

Well, that's just ducky.

 

I'm not sure why it would be mentioned in the other thread as it is not new. In fact, this paragraph has been present in the TOS since at least May 2022, possibly much longer than that, but the May 2022 version is the oldest archived version on archive.org.

You can see the same statement appearing in this version of the page cached in December 2022.

[Rowan Amore]

32 minutes ago, Tjay Wicken said:

I'm not sure why it would be mentioned in the other thread as it is not new. In fact, this paragraph has been present in the TOS since at least May 2022, possibly much longer than that, but the May 2022 version is the oldest archived version on archive.org.

You can see the same statement appearing in this version of the page cached in December 2022.

That's why I asked

20 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

It does say it could take up to 30 days.  Did it say that before?

Never had any reason to read that section before as I don't need to cash out.

[Tjay Wicken]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

That's why I asked

Never had any reason to read that section before as I don't need to cash out.

Sorry, should have been clearer, I was just pointing out why I didn't point it out in the other thread, as my only focus was what had changed.

30 days is something you will often see with payment processors, or really anytime any firm needs to make transactions and transfers (that is, unless they are the ones who should be paid, of course! 😂), that statement is there to cover them in the event that something goes wrong, or they are for some reason unable to complete transactions.

Terms of Services will often read extremely hostile for customers reading them but as with any legal speak it is important to pay attention to the leading words, in this case "but may take up to", which is them saying (and I am paraphrasing here) "We aim to have your funds with you within 5-10 business days, but In the rare event that we are somehow prevented from completing the transaction, we still make sure that you have the funds within 30 days".
 

[Prokofy Neva]

11 hours ago, Tjay Wicken said:

I'm not sure why it would be mentioned in the other thread as it is not new. In fact, this paragraph has been present in the TOS since at least May 2022, possibly much longer than that, but the May 2022 version is the oldest archived version on archive.org.

You can see the same statement appearing in this version of the page cached in December 2022.

5-10 is new because before, it was 5-7. As for 30 days, I don't know. I'm glad you found a cached version *of the Tillia TOS page*. But there are also the instructions from Tillia *on the cashout page itself.*

[Prokofy Neva]

10 hours ago, Tjay Wicken said:

Sorry, should have been clearer, I was just pointing out why I didn't point it out in the other thread, as my only focus was what had changed.

30 days is something you will often see with payment processors, or really anytime any firm needs to make transactions and transfers (that is, unless they are the ones who should be paid, of course! 😂), that statement is there to cover them in the event that something goes wrong, or they are for some reason unable to complete transactions.

Terms of Services will often read extremely hostile for customers reading them but as with any legal speak it is important to pay attention to the leading words, in this case "but may take up to", which is them saying (and I am paraphrasing here) "We aim to have your funds with you within 5-10 business days, but In the rare event that we are somehow prevented from completing the transaction, we still make sure that you have the funds within 30 days".
 

I really can't fathom who you are representing here and why you feel you need to play lawyer for Linden Lab. You might also want to answer the question of the OP: how long does it take you to cash out of SL?

Regardless of whether "30 days is something you often see with processors", the operative issue here is how long does it take NORMALLY, TYPICALLY, and IN FACT with payments services.

With Tillia, it usually has taken the full 5-7 days for me for years on end, and lately, 7 days more often than 5, and NEVER less. Yet for some people, it is only 2.

I don't need to be hectored with legal-speak about what TOS often say to protect themselves. This thread is NOT about "what is different in the Tillia TOS" where one might usefully point out, oh, they're all like this.

This is a thread seeking to determine whether in fact this company has a *practice* (not everything in life is about law or regulations) of giving some 2 days, and making others wait 7 days. So rattling on about "what companies do" is irrelevant for this threat -- and frankly, even for the other. The other one merely sought to determine *what was different* and whether the number of days was different, end of story.

You seem to think that if "companies all have this boilerplate" and "they all protect themselves" that we're supposed to just be chumps and go along with this. Why?

When my customers for various jobs in real life pay me on PayPal, it takes a variety of time frames from MINUTES to at most 24 hours -- and that's even from far-flung countries. What is the reason that Tillia is not like that? Does it need to check every single micro-transaction that made up the total sum cashed out, or what's the problem?

It is not typical for Venmo or PayPal to make you wait 5-10 days or 30 days. On Venmo, I have had them take 3 days *to move funds into my bank* -- but when someone pays me on Venmo, I get the cash RIGHT AWAY.

THAT IS THE INDUSTRY NORM.

It seems to elude some people that we are being paid for work we did for this company, taking care of their customers as prosumers, providing goods (content) or services (like rentals). The fact that this takes the form of multiple micro-transactions shouldn't distract from this fundamental point. The end.

 

Edited August 5 by Prokofy Neva

[Tjay Wicken]

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I really can't fathom who you are representing here and why you feel you need to play lawyer for Linden Lab. You might also want to answer the question of the OP: how long does it take you to cash out of SL?

Regardless of whether "30 days is something you often see with processors", the operative issue here is how long does it take NORMALLY, TYPICALLY, and IN FACT with payments services.

With Tillia, it usually has taken the full 5-7 days for me for years on end, and lately, 7 days more often than 5, and NEVER less. Yet for some people, it is only 2.

I don't need to be hectored with legal-speak about what TOS often say to protect themselves. This thread is NOT about "what is different in the Tillia TOS" where one might usefully point out, oh, they're all like this.

This is a thread seeking to determine whether in fact this company has a *practice* (not everything in life is about law or regulations) of giving some 2 days, and making others wait 7 days. So rattling on about "what companies do" is irrelevant for this threat -- and frankly, even for the other. The other one merely sought to determine *what was different* and whether the number of days was different, end of story.

You seem to think that if "companies all have this boilerplate" and "they all protect themselves" that we're supposed to just be chumps and go along with this. Why?

When my customers for various jobs in real life pay me on PayPal, it takes a variety of time frames from MINUTES to at most 24 hours -- and that's even from far-flung countries. What is the reason that Tillia is not like that? Does it need to check every single micro-transaction that made up the total sum cashed out, or what's the problem?

It is not typical for Venmo or PayPal to make you wait 5-10 days or 30 days. On Venmo, I have had them take 3 days *to move funds into my bank* -- but when someone pays me on Venmo, I get the cash RIGHT AWAY.

THAT IS THE INDUSTRY NORM.

It seems to elude some people that we are being paid for work we did for this company, taking care of their customers as prosumers, providing goods (content) or services (like rentals). The fact that this takes the form of multiple micro-transactions shouldn't distract from this fundamental point. The end.

 

I'm not really sure why you are being so hostile, the only thing I did was point out that the paragraph you were questioning has been in place in the Tilia ToS for several years, and most likely it has been there since Tilia was formed. Whatever change there may have been, if any, is not related to that.

Who am I representing? me! - a satisfied SL resident since 2006.

It has never taken more than 2-3 days for me to withdraw through LL (and I live across the atlantic)

And for what it is worth, I'm glad that you have had a nice experience with PayPal and Venmo - personally, when I was using PayPal for my business, it would not be uncommon for them to randomly freeze/put a hold on my funds, sometimes for a month for no reason at all, each time having to re-send the same company registration forms. I would personally never use them for anything business critical ever again.

[Artorius Constantine]

I remember many years ago it took 5 or 6  business days average. Then they jacked up the LL cut from merchants and said it was to speed up things like cash outs and make improvements to the MP. It got better, down to a couple days on average. Then over the course of a couple years it slowed back down to a week average.

Then a couple years ago they did it again, Jacked up the % cut and said, "For faster cash outs", and indeed, for a couple months they were nearly always 24 hours max.

I remember posting about it when I got a cash out the same day as requested and giving LL some love for it.

Then. just like before, it gradually slowed down again, to about 4 or 5 days on average.

Then came Tilia. Now it averages a week to Paypal and another couple days to my bank. Pretty much the same as always.

So, if I need money from SL to be in my bank, I give at least a 10-day window. And that's only if the amount falls within my normal transaction parameters.

I am 100% positive they have a record and consult it. If the transaction is pretty much 'standard' it will go through faster. If it's outside of what you normally do, you can expect it to take longer.

[RohanaRaven Zerbino]

On 8/5/2024 at 7:58 AM, Prokofy Neva said:

Yet for some people, it is only 2.

2 days, Europe, outside of EU, it's like that for years, lets say 8-10 years or so.

[Prokofy Neva]

Why would people in Europe cash out in 2 days, and people in the US cash out in 5-7 days?

Where is Tillia's home base?

As for PayPal, I've never had a problem with them except for about a month or so at the start of the full-fledge war in Ukraine in 2022, where they put a freeze on all my business income because some of my clients were Russians, although antiwar Russians abroad, or various emigre groups with the name "Russia" in them, although they were human rights and media groups declared "undesirable" by Russia, and PayPal should have known better. Eventually they figured it out. PS GoFundMe did the same thing to many emigre/human rights groups whih actually crippled their relief and advocy response to the war. This is the way of the world.

Are we to believe that Tillia vets us more because we have more/better/stricter banking/payment processing laws that European countries...or something?

[Love Zhaoying]

8 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Why would people in Europe cash out in 2 days, and people in the US cash out in 5-7 days?

Perhaps laws in some European countries requires Tillia to cash out quicker..

[animats]

California has a 10-day limit for money transmitters. After that there's a US$1000 penalty.

[RohanaRaven Zerbino]

13 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Why would people in Europe cash out in 2 days, and people in the US cash out in 5-7 days?

Maybe it is not geography based. You would need more input from USA residents to claim that people in the USA are cashing out in 5-7 days. Perhaps you could get more detailed information by submitting a support ticket?

 

13 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Perhaps laws in some European countries requires Tillia to cash out quicker..

Not applicable in my country, for sure.

[Prokofy Neva]

On 8/6/2024 at 6:01 PM, animats said:

California has a 10-day limit for money transmitters. After that there's a US$1000 penalty.

That isn't relevant and just because California law says you can take 10 days doesn't mean that Silicon Valley companies based in California should also take 10 days -- and they don't. 

When I do a translation for someone in California and they use PayPal to pay me, I get the payment within the hour. They do not pay a fee; I pay the Paypal Business standard fee.

Venmo, owned by PayPal, and based in New York, instantly puts the money from a payment on my account, which I can instantly use from the Venmo debit card -- or I can opt to wait 3-5 days to send it to my bank -- it's usually faster.

When I get a payment from Tillia, which is my Linden dollars exchanged into US dollars, after a fee, they take 5-7 days to make a payment to me, with a fee. Now they are saying 5-10 because their lawyers apparently looked for things and found this California law.

That is not right. 

Given that first you have to wait to cash out Lindens -- even at 247 these days that can take a day, and certainly quite a few hours most days -- then wait 5-10 days for Tillia to cash you out -- for a fee -- then wait another 1-3 days to cash out from PayPal -- unless you pay a fee for the instant transfer -- you can wait two weeks to get your paycheck from your business in SL. That is how it should be understood. Of course you "owe your soul to the company store" in tier.

 

[Prokofy Neva]

20 hours ago, RohanaRaven Zerbino said:

Maybe it is not geography based. You would need more input from USA residents to claim that people in the USA are cashing out in 5-7 days. Perhaps you could get more detailed information by submitting a support ticket?

 

Not applicable in my country, for sure.

The Lindens are not going to provide this information via a support ticket, that's not what they do. A journalist asking them the question from RL media *might* get an answer -- but might not. A loyal  blogger asking his favourite Linden *might* get an answer -- but likely not. They are a private business, not on the public stock market, and they are not required to be transparent. 

That's why I try to get a sense of what this reality is from the forums, since I was startled to find out that people in Europe got cashed out in 2 days.

 

[Pixieplumb Flanagan]

UK, 2 days (business) never longer.

[Pixieplumb Flanagan]

Just to test the 'new' system or whatevs, cashed out Sunday evening about 21:00 BST (British Summer Time) and it hit my paypal at 4:30 this morning.  Presumably it's similar for other Europeans?