discussionbot Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 5 hours ago, BriannaLovey said: linux 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Sharkfin Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 1 hour ago, Zalificent Corvinus said: Sorting price low to high, Nvidia cards only ( because SL hates AMD and it's sh*te-tech OpenGL drivers ), and cards under $150 = 1030 GT, a card that has 2GB of VRAM, gives single digit frame-rates with ALM, and will struggle to reach 5fps with PBR. Not that a GT1030 is really adequate for SL if you want to go out exploring and visit built up areas full of avatars but your performance estimates are a bit low. I'm running a GT1030 and could get 30+fps out of it with ALM in an average area with a few avatars around as long as I tweaked settings and lowered my draw distance etc. There is definitely a slight drop in performance with PBR in comparison to ALM, but some additional tweaking has allowed me to get a reasonable (for a GT1030 at least) 20-25fps without SL looking that much different. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discussionbot Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 On 6/24/2024 at 10:03 PM, Clem Marques said: Anyone else desperately clinging to the pre-PBR versions of SL viewers? Definitely. I'm on ultra with 250 draw distance so my machine should probably be okay with it. I just don't have the time to muck around with 'optimising' and messing with the settings and reflection probes right now, I'll probably ride out with FS 6.6 right up until they force me to upgrade. I log on for a few minutes and hang around my rentals surrounded in natural and water areas so should be fine. I keep hearing the PBR water is really bad. I'm a water person and do a lot of sailing/living/being surrounded by it and love how my shiny blue water looks so I'm worried about it suddenly turning awful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modulated Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 (edited) 2 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said: . Sorting price low to high, Nvidia cards only ( because SL hates AMD and it's sh*te-tech OpenGL drivers ) This hasn't been the case for AMD cards for probably 3 years now. AMD fixed their drivers , and if you are running something from Polaris,Vega to current, they work fine, absolutely fine. Just another myth paraded by people who don't use AMD cards-and probably never have. Edited June 27 by Modulated 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codex Alpha Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 7 hours ago, Paul Hexem said: It's shocking how incredibly selfish many of these people on the forums are. They really want the platform to never update and move forward, have it die with them. They are the same, and similar to the same small group that were a rotten core at HiFi and Sansar, undermining their success with their utter hate, and fear of losing SL, instead of exploring the possibilities. One or two may even be here now, I recognize their speech style and utter vitriol, because they spoke the same way on the other platforms. Fanbois (rabid fans that will defend a platform/game against all newcomers, new ideas, etc) can be quite toxic to any platform. 6 hours ago, Dorientje Woller said: I can't swap to linux ... due to my profession and most of the software on my PC are bought and provided by the organisation where I work for and are sadly created for Windows only. Sadly, for many they will have to embrace the worst spyware released on mankind to date as a result. How far we've come to detesting malware, keyloggers, screen captures,etc to people embracing it because "I must play [insert latest game]". For all of people's talk about freedom and privacy, they certainly have caved in quite easily to these things in the end. 5 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Yes. I've done that on occasion, "baking-in" the AO map to the colour map, and adjusting the rough map to serve for a spectral. It's imperfect, but it works. But you need to get creators doing that, adding both Blinn-Phong materials AND PBR materials to new objects. And for a while some will, but an awful lot won't, because of the extra work. And it's not going to help with terrain textures at all, because you can't back up the PBR materials on them with BP ones. They're just going to appear grey to those using older viewers. Notice, no talk of the effects of using both these things, ALM on/off or PBR on/off when it comes to customer complaints and low-ratings as a result. It's because MOST, if not nearly all, creators don't do this, and are in fact just baking simulated light and stuff in the color texture only. It's really the only reasonable workflow in SL - until everyone is 'forced' to view all the materials provided. And I'm not for 'forcing' people to do anything, so LL must provide a fallback regardless. 5 hours ago, Irina Forwzy said: Personally, I don't feel Gen Xs or the newer generation which are the current target of this will be wasting time in a game that their parents may have played. But I don't know, having seen their psychology and how it's impacted retail and other enterprises in real life may play completely different here. Maybe they can also rebrand the game, Second Life to hmmm... "Third Life"? As absurd as it sounds, and probably LL would never bother... but provide "Second Life Classic", where people can access sims that are registered/tagged as "Classic" and use the old system, but now we're getting into non-contiguous lands territory 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 7 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: But the majority of those protesting here don't want that; they just I disagree. We've got 5 or 6 different threads made in less days than that, all filled with hyperbole, saying this is the end of SL, it cuts off anyone that didn't spend 2,000 USD on a computer, etc. Not a single one is asking for hardware recommendations, setting suggestions, or even linking a gofundme for upgrades. 7 hours ago, BriannaLovey said: with those who don't care about them, but that is just my opinion. They don't care about fixing the problem, why should we care about them? 6 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Paul will argue, with some justice, that he's offered to help people assemble their own low-cost computers. It'll say it again. Only one person in ten years has taken me up on the offer and currently they're enjoying the PBR update. Everyone else thinks, and I quote, "I shouldn't have to make any adjustments". 4 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraser Lisle Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said: I disagree. We've got 5 or 6 different threads made in less days than that, all filled with hyperbole, saying this is the end of SL, it cuts off anyone that didn't spend 2,000 USD on a computer, etc. Not a single one is asking for hardware recommendations, setting suggestions, or even linking a gofundme for upgrades. They don't care about fixing the problem, why should we care about them? It'll say it again. Only one person in ten years has taken me up on the offer and currently they're enjoying the PBR update. Everyone else thinks, and I quote, "I shouldn't have to make any adjustments". There seems to be a lot of people who just don't want to hear it. Some degree is expected though, major updates do that. Kind of surprised so many were even unaware it was coming though, this has been a year+ in the making and plenty were running alpha/beta viewers to play with it and follow development. Also the fact that ALM is now ten years old... Change just scares and angers some people. I think it's good SL finally has real lighting that is forced on, the ability to disable ALM was a disaster as far as product quality. Edited June 27 by Fraser Lisle 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Bardeen Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 8 hours ago, Dorientje Woller said: TBH, just looked at the prices of the Ryzen 5000 Cpu's, as possible upgrade: 129 Euro's for the 5600X and 165 Euro's for the 5700X. I would have stuck with my 2017 7700K (yes, made obsolete within six months) except the motherboard died. I could have just replaced that part, but I changed over to a 5600X system (in 2023). I went with that because DDR4 was (is?) way cheaper than DDR5 and the TDU of the 5600X was just below the bump into spaceheater territory. I think that CPU-wise, either would still be fine for SL- the 7700K is a 4.1ish GHz cpu. I have fond memories of my 1060 card, I even played some VR games on it, and it did really well. Upgrading to a 2080 Super did boost SL, but not by all that much. For other games of course it was that much snazzier. I personally think that something like a 1060 or equivalent should be* a reasonable baseline for an acceptable, if not ultimate, experience for SL. *I mean should be as in, they should make SL work reasonably, even if on low settings, not that it actually is ok. The bad news for Firestorm 6.x holdouts is that PBR bug fixes, webRTC, and possibly game controller support are going to churn versions really quickly. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 32 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said: Only one person in ten years has taken me up on the offer Next time I need an upgrade, I'll hit you up! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Marques Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 (edited) It often surprises me to learn that people walk around with ALM enabled. I always have it turned off, unless I'm taking a picture. Wish it were possible to do the same with PBR - to have it as an option. Edited June 27 by Clem Marques 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 6 minutes ago, Yorkie Bardeen said: The bad news for Firestorm 6.x holdouts is that PBR bug fixes, webRTC, and possibly game controller support are going to churn versions really quickly. That's an interesting point. What are the specific "rules" about when Firestorm retires old versions? That is, does every little patch release count as a "release" on the doomsday clock to a forced upgrade? Also, the webRTC stuff seems like a real problem. Well, not for me; I avoid voice as much as possible. But for those who still use voice, it's just kind of weird that they'll be pretty much forced to use PBR (unless they switch to CoolVL Viewer that makes PBR optional). Don't know if the consequences will be more PBR adoption or (as I'd prefer) reduced voice usage. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 2 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said: 21 minutes ago, Yorkie Bardeen said: The bad news for Firestorm 6.x holdouts is that PBR bug fixes, webRTC, and possibly game controller support are going to churn versions really quickly. That's an interesting point. What are the specific "rules" about when Firestorm retires old versions? That is, does every little patch release count as a "release" on the doomsday clock to a forced upgrade? I think that I read recently it's "3 major releases" (not bugfixes / minor releases). Sorry, I consume the Forum even if I don't use Firestorm! (Like an old man who reads the NYT from cover-to-cover.) 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 17 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Next time I need an upgrade, I'll hit you up! I don't have the inventory I used to due to RL, but I'm still a great source for how to walkthroughs. 15 minutes ago, Clem Marques said: It often surprises me to learn that people walk around with ALM enabled. I always have it turned off, unless I'm taking a picture. Wish it were possible to do the same with PBR - to have it as an option. Anyone running around with ALM disabled for the last decade was doing themselves a disservice. That was the trial for PBR. Sure, nobody said it explicitly and LL is terrible at all forms of communication even if they had said it, but that's always how technology works. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modulated Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 33 minutes ago, Yorkie Bardeen said: The bad news for Firestorm 6.x holdouts is that PBR bug fixes, webRTC, and possibly game controller support are going to churn versions really quickly. Yep and all those fixes are PBR only, forcing the pre-PBR viewers out of commission. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 5 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said: 26 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Next time I need an upgrade, I'll hit you up! I don't have the inventory I used to due to RL, but I'm still a great source for how to walkthroughs. My two situations: 1. I bet the GPU CAN be switched out in my new Acer Nitro, since it's non-integrated. No hurry since it's so new and I'm happy so far. Of course, being a notebook, I'll probably be smarter to pay the computer guy down the street to do the GPU install when the time comes! (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BSLWGFXD, has "NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3050 Ti Laptop GPU"). Also only has 16GB memory. 2. I have a new rackmount PC which seems to have come with some underpowered graphics (I got it for music production, not Second Life). I KNOW it can be upgraded. No hurry, since I really just use it for music stuff so far (being in a rack, and all). Since the unit is "whisper-quiet", it will be interesting to see if when the time comes, I can upgrade it with a GPU that is also "whisper-quiet". Also needs more memory added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 20 minutes ago, Clem Marques said: It often surprises me to learn that people walk around with ALM enabled. I always have it turned off, unless I'm taking a picture. Wish it were possible to do the same with PBR - to have it as an option. Yeah, but I gotta be frank: for me, making ALM mandatory is the best part of PBR. Some of us worked really hard to add ALM-requiring content for others to see, and it's been really frustrating knowing that they can't see the emissive alpha we put on those candles and the masked alpha we used to fix the sorting bug on those trees and the metallic bronze specularity we applied over the normalmap on those signs, etc., etc. We can't expect every visitor to value all the detailed content we fuss over obsessively, but thinking about that is kinda how obsession works. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irina Forwzy Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 6 hours ago, Dorientje Woller said: Lols, I have helped a couple of months ago an 78 year old lady dive into the world of bento heads and bodies, EvoX style, because she wanted to update her looks. While true: Macy's, JcPenney, and Sears would like to have a word with you. Big Box stores such as these were a highlight of a time. Now they are having financial issues and we all know how Sears disappeared. There has been a change in people's behavior especially in the last 20-30 years. In fact, it's impacting even cruising industries (where the main point which was Casinos is now having to change because the younger generation doesn't like casinos). Some things do follow age. You may not like a particular game for instance when you are 20 because your parent's played it or it's as old as your parents, at thirty you may no longer care as much for the stigma. At seventy, you may have heard about it from a child and you want to be hip. Anomalies do exist. But, the golden age of LL has been over and attracting the Fortnite users (or what's the newest game?) may not be as profitable as they think. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 1 minute ago, Irina Forwzy said: Macy's, JcPenney, and Sears would like to have a word with you. Big Box stores such as these were a highlight of a time. Sorry, I'm pedantic. These weren't "big box" stores, they were "department stores". Big Box stores are like "Bed, Bath, Beyond" and "ToysRUs" (both of which are gone). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: My two situations: 1. I bet the GPU CAN be switched out in my new Acer Nitro, since it's non-integrated. No hurry since it's so new and I'm happy so far. Of course, being a notebook, I'll probably be smarter to pay the computer guy down the street to do the GPU install when the time comes! (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BSLWGFXD, has "NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3050 Ti Laptop GPU"). Also only has 16GB memory. 2. I have a new rackmount PC which seems to have come with some underpowered graphics (I got it for music production, not Second Life). I KNOW it can be upgraded. No hurry, since I really just use it for music stuff so far (being in a rack, and all). Since the unit is "whisper-quiet", it will be interesting to see if when the time comes, I can upgrade it with a GPU that is also "whisper-quiet". Also needs more memory added. 1. Laptops have never been a great investment if you're doing any kind of gaming (including SL, I said it). They extremely hard, if not impossible, to upgrade. If you absolutely have to stick with a laptop, buying another one will almost always be the better investment than trying to upgrade. I had the older brother of that laptop you linked several generations ago (almost ten years, actually)- it still runs today, and can still run SL even. 2. Depending on the case, it's almost certainly real easy to upgrade. I actually just bought a rackmount case ( https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B84RCVCN ) for a future NVR build I'm planning. Things will get louder of course. If you do decide you want to upgrade, let me know. I'll be working on mine in the next couple months and I'm happy to share pictures and whatnot if you want to follow suit. Edited June 27 by Paul Hexem 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 1 minute ago, Paul Hexem said: Things will get louder of course. We shall see! With the ongoing improvements to GPU's, maybe there will be a quiet one that suits my need by the time I am ready to upgrade. It could also be that the system is quiet because the case is special (with baffles, etc. to reduce the noise). 2 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said: Laptops have never been a great investment if you're doing any kind of gaming (including SL, I said it). They extremely hard, if not impossible, to upgrade. If you absolutely have to stick with a laptop, buying another one will almost always be the better investment than trying to upgrade. I know you say this but.. 3 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said: I had the older brother of that laptop you linked several generations ago (almost ten years, actually)- it still runs today, and can still run SL even. ..because of this, there's every reason to think I'm in no hurry. Plus it was <$800. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irina Forwzy Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 7 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Sorry, I'm pedantic. These weren't "big box" stores, they were "department stores". Big Box stores are like "Bed, Bath, Beyond" and "ToysRUs" (both of which are gone). Morning without coffee but both of these store types have been failing as of late. Department stores and Big Box Stores have been bleeding for years. Now Sears also had a CEO that was using the company as a revenue stream (if I remember he had a company that acquired the land and then Sears had to rent from it)... but overall besides Sears that was being fleeced by a CEO.. The rest have been struggling for a decade or more. And we know what happened to ToysRUs... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: ..because of this, there's every reason to think I'm in no hurry. Plus it was <$800. I just looked it up. That's about what I paid, too. They hold up remarkably well, although I was wrong about the age. I had bought it in 2018. I've had to refurbish it a couple times over the years and added RAM at one point, but it's surprising that the 960M it's got in it is still doing the job fairly well. Edited June 27 by Paul Hexem 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 11 minutes ago, Irina Forwzy said: Morning without coffee but both of these store types have been failing as of late. Department stores and Big Box Stores have been bleeding for years. BUT - in some cases, the stores "failed" because of leveraged buyouts where the buyout increased the company's debt to unsustainable levels, turned "owned stores" into "lease models", etc. ToysRUs is one example. So, they don't all fail for the same reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irina Forwzy Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: BUT - in some cases, the stores "failed" because of leveraged buyouts where the buyout increased the company's debt to unsustainable levels, turned "owned stores" into "lease models", etc. ToysRUs is one example. So, they don't all fail for the same reasons. While the failure in and of itself for Sears/ToysRUs was through the Private Equity/Investment Fraud scheme that sometimes happen when the land itself is sold off to a "company" that usually has ties to the Investment company for a lease/rental price which then augments and shifts what could have already been an amortized cost in old mortgages to a sunk one now.. the point still stands. The reason why they got away with doing these behaviors was because the companies didn't have enough sale to yield over the debt and the financial failures of the management behind them. Leaving them exposed to the risks that they were. JcPenney, Macy's etc are also in that risk category. All companies can rack up debt, and if they don't have the wiggle room of increasing revenue, any mistake or bad executive decision can leave them on the border of bankruptcy. LL needs to start to realize that back when money was flowing without much Fed Rate hike on it, mistakes were not deadly. Now they can be. Which means they need to be focused on the revenue and sim creations in the next three months and six. If they see a slow influx of steady revenue, they need to talk to the developers to not black access to the grid with older viewers. They also will need to potentially slow down PBR or introduce more PCs into their Beta environments (and I mean with better communication than just Forum and Sl University) and try to iron out as many kinks. Edited June 27 by Irina Forwzy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaomiLocket Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 35 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said: Yeah, but I gotta be frank: for me, making ALM mandatory is the best part of PBR. Some of us worked really hard to add ALM-requiring content for others to see, and it's been really frustrating knowing that they can't see the emissive alpha we put on those candles and the masked alpha [...] This is incorrect. Alpha masking works independently of ALM setting. It is not the best part of it. There are other fixes that are a good part of PBR which will give extra freedom to view overlapping things that were previously blamed on opengl (probably a wrongful blame assignment) comparing with my bestie up there on a build earlier. So I have good things to look forward to when I finally bother to put my 3060ti and r9 5900X through its paces with it. But to be frank, don't tell people alpha masking can't be seen without ALM. Masking is as it always should have been quite independent of it. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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