Jump to content

Probes, PBR questions


Recommended Posts

I'm waiting to download the PBR FS viewer until the dust settles but keep reading you need to add "probes" to fix PBR lighting issues. How is that supposed to work - are probes physical things - so you'd need to have rez rights? What if I go to a club or store and it looks like it needs more light?

I have a sky box , a type of home which I've read will need some work to not have lighting issues from the sky outside .

I don't understand why we are having to go all graphics tech head as we try to move around the grid and ESCAPE into SL. If I wanted to trouble shoot scenes I'd find some work at home job.

I have a lot of decor /garden inventory , not into having to rebuy stuff or have my old stuff look lousy . I keep the old stuff [which I cull to special things] because they are  unique, remind me of friends and places , some gone but remembered fondly. Like in real life - you collect memories- makes a place "home"

Maybe you all are hedge fund managers [which I doubt] but I'm not real interested in using a product that requires my machine be in the repair shop for fan cleaning or replaced earlier than my budget allows. [Have a 16 gig laptop now so I don't have the bucks for a 32 gig that needs to be replaced what every 2 years versus 5 ?]. 

Would I drive a street in RL that will make my car's tires and shocks wear out faster and give me more maintenance bills AND make me have to add/subtract  light bars to my car to see stuff as I drive ?

I just want to move around the grid immersively ,  enjoy my old home & stuff in it , and not have higher hardware bills. Possible?

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Cam Mode said:

I'm waiting to download the PBR FS viewer until the dust settles but keep reading you need to add "probes" to fix PBR lighting issues. How is that supposed to work - are probes physical things - so you'd need to have rez rights? What if I go to a club or store and it looks like it needs more light?

The short answer to the actual question you ask is that, yes, reflection probes are a special kind of object. They are "physical things" in the sense that they are (invisible and phantom) boxes or spheres that you need rez rights to place, and that count towards your LI.

If you go to a place that's too dark, and you don't have the ability to add a reflection probe (which is mostly likely going to be the case), the best fix is to simply switch over to a brighter Windlight/EEP.

Or you can add a facelight, but then I'd have to kill you, I'm afraid.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Cam Mode said:

How is that supposed to work - are probes physical things

Yes, it's a special kind of prim sphere/box.

 

1 hour ago, Cam Mode said:

so you'd need to have rez rights?

Probes are basically to fix the awful lighting in your own place. so yes, rez rights.

 

1 hour ago, Cam Mode said:

What if I go to a club or store and it looks like it needs more light?

I believe the official recommended solution from our Masters is "suck it up, change your windlight, or turn the brightness up on your monitor granpa, we're pretending we're hip n cool with Pretentious Bloody rubbish!"

 

1 hour ago, Cam Mode said:

I don't understand why we are having to go all graphics tech head as we try to move around the grid and ESCAPE into SL

They decided to appease a tiny noisy minority of semi-pro tech nerds who bought or rented expensive pro creation software. Oh, and to provide a new excusse for saying "delete your inventory and start all over again".

 

1 hour ago, Cam Mode said:

I just want to move around the grid immersively ,  enjoy my old home & stuff in it , and not have higher hardware bills. Possible?

Sort of, just 1) never upgrade FS, and 2) when they lock out the version you use, switch to a non PBR version of a viewer that doesn't lock out.

More and more of SL will become un-immersive, as the cultists switch to Pretentious Bloody rubbish. so get used to seeing blank textureless things or just bumping into invisible stuff.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Or you can add a facelight, but then I'd have to kill you, I'm afraid.

I was thinking earlier how fortunate it is that LL didn't allow people to wear reflection probes, if not they could quickly become the "new facellghts" of SL.

Just imagine all those folks wandering around smooshing their personal probes together and causing all sorts of random crazy lighting glitches for everyone, things could have been so much worse!

  • Like 1
  • Haha 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

I was thinking earlier how fortunate it is that LL didn't allow people to wear reflection probes

Shush!

Don't give the tech-illiterate Futureness Cultists ideas.

There's NO stupidity LL won't consider if it's popular at a "Five Fools & a Linden" Beta Grid Futureness Meeting.

*cough* St. LagiRugs of Kama City, Salvation of SL, and the Webcam Auto-Gurning Device *cough*

  • Haha 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Shush!

Don't give the tech-illiterate Futureness Cultists ideas.

Good point!

I'll definitely also refrain from mentioning that you could probably script a probe to act as a follower instead of attaching it to your avatar! 🤔

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

Good point!

I'll definitely also refrain from mentioning that you could probably script a probe to act as a follower instead of attaching it to your avatar! 🤔

And you just invented the latest iteration of the follower based griefer hud projectile.

oh-no-emoji.gif.b224468c6390c0b4b2f06c31bd84979d.gif

  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

And you just invented the latest iteration of the follower based griefer hud projectile.

oh-no-emoji.gif.b224468c6390c0b4b2f06c31bd84979d.gif

You're welcome!  It's always nice to feel like you're contributing! :)

(On a serious note I don't even know if probes are actually scriptable.  If they are I'd very much like to know why because I really don't see any reason at all why they should be!?)

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

Good point!

I'll definitely also refrain from mentioning that you could probably script a probe to act as a follower instead of attaching it to your avatar! 🤔

From what I gather and have read, there would really be no need for this if there was a probe on the region you are in. As long as the probe exists , the lighting will do it's thing, I think? Can someone who knows more chime in? Thanks.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Modulated said:

From what I gather and have read, there would really be no need for this if there was a probe on the region you are in. As long as the probe exists , the lighting will do it's thing, I think? Can someone who knows more chime in? Thanks.

I wouldn't say I "know more" but theoretically the automatically generated probes should handle the work whenever resident created probes aren't present (at the moment they aren't doing a very good job of it though).  There definitely isn't a need for wearable or moving probes, but then aside from vanity and ego there was very little need for facelights either but that didn't stop people from lighting themselves up like christmas trees for years. 😅

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

I wouldn't say I "know more" but theoretically the automatically generated probes should handle the work whenever resident created probes aren't present (at the moment they aren't doing a very good job of it though).  There definitely isn't a need for wearable or moving probes, but then aside from vanity and ego there was very little need for facelights either but that didn't stop people from lighting themselves up like christmas trees for years. 😅

 

Well, some bloody idiot made sure probes, both lighting and mirror, can be linked to non probes.

So.

Standard griefer prim follower projectile, now with a "mirror finish surface material, linked to that a very large light probe , excessively pright, too much ambience, strobing colour, and TWO mirror probes facing in opposite directions.

Then script your follower prim to gyrate randomly, and load into your griefer weapon or hud.

Spam two dozen of these at your target when you see them in world, and they get lagged to death by spinning mirrors and flashing lights.

 

Well done Futureness Cultists, thanks to the Miracle of PBR we now have a brand new way to crash peoples graphics drivers in SL!

 

And people wonder why I think many of the "positive suggestions for cool new ideas" people around here are "utter morons incapable of real thought".

 

  • Haha 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:
1 hour ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

Good point!

I'll definitely also refrain from mentioning that you could probably script a probe to act as a follower instead of attaching it to your avatar! 🤔

And you just invented the latest iteration of the follower based griefer hud projectile.

oh-no-emoji.gif.b224468c6390c0b4b2f06c31bd84979d.gif

 

47 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Standard griefer prim follower projectile, now with a "mirror finish surface material, linked to that a very large light probe , excessively pright, too much ambience, strobing colour, and TWO mirror probes facing in opposite directions.

Then script your follower prim to gyrate randomly, and load into your griefer weapon or hud.

Spam two dozen of these at your target when you see them in world, and they get lagged to death by spinning mirrors and flashing lights.

 

And you just wrote step-by-step instructions on how to build one, welcome to the "contributors club"! :D :P 

  • Haha 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

 

And you just wrote step-by-step instructions on how to build one, welcome to the "contributors club"! :D :P 

Well, the Spokes-Idiots from the Cult of Pointless Positivity keep telling me to be "nicer" to griefers, right?

 

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Well, the Spokes-Idiots from the Cult of Pointless Positivity keep telling me to be "nicer" to griefers, right?

 

Okay, just don't overdo it and take regular breaks.  If you start to feel "too nice" try sitting in a dark room and listening to aggressively ominous music until you feel worse again?!

I'd recommend a little Bauhaus or maybe King Crimsons Red album or perhaps one of my personal favourite "feel bad" songs by ASF...

 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

I was thinking earlier how fortunate it is that LL didn't allow people to wear reflection probes, if not they could quickly become the "new facellghts" of SL.

Just imagine all those folks wandering around smooshing their personal probes together and causing all sorts of random crazy lighting glitches for everyone, things could have been so much worse!

Someone is gonna find a way, They always do!! \o/

hehehe

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Cam Mode said:

I'm waiting to download the PBR FS viewer until the dust settles but keep reading you need to add "probes" to fix PBR lighting issues. How is that supposed to work - are probes physical things - so you'd need to have rez rights? What if I go to a club or store and it looks like it needs more light?

I have a sky box , a type of home which I've read will need some work to not have lighting issues from the sky outside .

I don't understand why we are having to go all graphics tech head as we try to move around the grid and ESCAPE into SL. If I wanted to trouble shoot scenes I'd find some work at home job.

I have a lot of decor /garden inventory , not into having to rebuy stuff or have my old stuff look lousy . I keep the old stuff [which I cull to special things] because they are  unique, remind me of friends and places , some gone but remembered fondly. Like in real life - you collect memories- makes a place "home"

Maybe you all are hedge fund managers [which I doubt] but I'm not real interested in using a product that requires my machine be in the repair shop for fan cleaning or replaced earlier than my budget allows. [Have a 16 gig laptop now so I don't have the bucks for a 32 gig that needs to be replaced what every 2 years versus 5 ?]. 

Would I drive a street in RL that will make my car's tires and shocks wear out faster and give me more maintenance bills AND make me have to add/subtract  light bars to my car to see stuff as I drive ?

I just want to move around the grid immersively ,  enjoy my old home & stuff in it , and not have higher hardware bills. Possible?

I used to be into film photography. If started talking about all the things you could do/think about to use a film camera you'd be terrified.

But I started with a Kodak Instamatic where basically all you had to do, and could do, was push down on a button. The only decision you had to make was whether or not to click on the Magicube flash cube.

And I got pictures. Well, most of the time. Enough that it made things worth doing. And it was cool enough that I eventually decided to learn more. But I didn't have to. If I was a different type of person I'd be perfectly happy with "just push a button" photography.

I've been using PBR since the first default release on the LL viewer. I've been going places and building things just like usual and I haven't laid down a single reflection probe outside of seeing if they were worth the trouble. Which, for me, they weren't. Because things generally look okay for me without worrying about them.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Our best coping with this big change will come through conversations and knowledge-sharing. To that purpose, I would suggest that LL and Firestorm back off for now, thank everybody for the useful parts of this tsunami of feedback, and work on fixes for the most troublesome issues. My computer handles PBR quite nicely with just a few settings tweaks, but not everyone can afford to upgrade or replace their machines at the drop of a hat. I would gladly give up this eye candy that has complicated so many virtual lives until more sorting-out can be done. Like driverless cars, PBR has apparently been released while there are still some major affordability vs playability concerns that cannot be glossed over.  There is so much fun to be had in SL that I think it is worth the effort to keep our heads and talk to the volunteer programmers as if we expect and trust them to do the needed fixes. That would up the chances for a longterm continuation of this virtual escape from the stress and tumult of our current RL.

Edited by GimmeChocolate Darkfold
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Well, the Spokes-Idiots from the Cult of Pointless Positivity keep telling me to be "nicer" to griefers, right?

They're just misunderstood and in need of some tender loving care and attention [pulls out his double barrel 10-gauge TLC shotgun loaded with depleted uranium swanshot...]

  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Cam Mode said:

I'm waiting to download the PBR FS viewer until the dust settles but keep reading you need to add "probes" to fix PBR lighting issues. How is that supposed to work - are probes physical things - so you'd need to have rez rights? What if I go to a club or store and it looks like it needs more light?

I have a sky box , a type of home which I've read will need some work to not have lighting issues from the sky outside .

I don't understand why we are having to go all graphics tech head as we try to move around the grid and ESCAPE into SL. If I wanted to trouble shoot scenes I'd find some work at home job.

I have a lot of decor /garden inventory , not into having to rebuy stuff or have my old stuff look lousy . I keep the old stuff [which I cull to special things] because they are  unique, remind me of friends and places , some gone but remembered fondly. Like in real life - you collect memories- makes a place "home"

Maybe you all are hedge fund managers [which I doubt] but I'm not real interested in using a product that requires my machine be in the repair shop for fan cleaning or replaced earlier than my budget allows. [Have a 16 gig laptop now so I don't have the bucks for a 32 gig that needs to be replaced what every 2 years versus 5 ?]. 

Would I drive a street in RL that will make my car's tires and shocks wear out faster and give me more maintenance bills AND make me have to add/subtract  light bars to my car to see stuff as I drive ?

I just want to move around the grid immersively ,  enjoy my old home & stuff in it , and not have higher hardware bills. Possible?

 

 

 

 

 

I have been testing PBR to get as many bugs raised and some things which may help you or make you tear your hair out - it could go either way.

(A) If you buy a skybox/house brand new ones if PBR enabled "may" come with probes installed.  Mine I put (PBR) in the title for ease and I am seeing other creators do the same.
(B) Some furniture makers decided to add probes to singular furniture pieces.  Which means if you put multiple pieces of those furniture with their own probe (which starts to really add up) into a house with a probe...well there will be "results".  You may find your scene starts to suffer.  Again you can check and you may want to remove or adjust them.  
(C) You need to have reflections enabled in the preferences, graphics to see the effects of a probe.
(D) You can rez your own probe (Rez a cube then using the build menu to set up) to create your own style.  
(E) The environmental settings are challenging at first.   I included EEP sets for environments with each PBR house for people to use to understand the differences.   I think this is the one area that is most difficult to get good results in because it dramatically changes how things interact with the light/dark etc and everybody will have their own favourites.

So in answer to your question.  You don't need to be a Hedge Fund Manager to use SL now or have higher hardware bills.

You don't need to really do anything with probes if you have a legacy skybox.   You can use legacy content without change mainly, if it is dark inside you can bump up a bit of the brightness if too dark or slightly change the EEP you are using and remain "as is" in Second Life without the need to progress on the new journey.  Probably less than a minute effort all in all.  You don't need to turn reflections on and all the "jazzy" stuff and I suspect it will look fairly similar to what you are used to.

Edited by Charlotte Bartlett
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

The short answer to the actual question you ask is that, yes, reflection probes are a special kind of object. They are "physical things" in the sense that they are (invisible and phantom) boxes or spheres that you need rez rights to place, and that count towards your LI.

If you go to a place that's too dark, and you don't have the ability to add a reflection probe (which is mostly likely going to be the case), the best fix is to simply switch over to a brighter Windlight/EEP.

Or you can add a facelight, but then I'd have to kill you, I'm afraid.

How do we know if a parcel/region/sandbox is pbr enabled or not? or that it's set up?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Charlotte Bartlett said:

(A) If you buy a skybox/house brand new ones if PBR enabled "may" come with probes installed.  Mine I put (PBR) in the title for ease and I am seeing other creators do the same.
(B) Some furniture makers decided to add probes to singular furniture pieces.  Which means if you put multiple pieces of those furniture with their own probe (which starts to really add up) into a house with a probe...well there will be "results".  You may find your scene starts to suffer.  Again you can check and you may want to remove or adjust them.  

And this makes it even more important to only buy buildings and decor that is moddable.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Codex Alpha said:

How do we know if a parcel/region/sandbox is pbr enabled or not? or that it's set up?

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

The entire grid is now PBR enabled -- meaning that you can use and experience PBR materials, reflection probes, and mirrors anywhere.

Of course, you'd need rezzing perms to be able to add any of these yourself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...