Who - aside from users - will benefit from the Mobile Ap

[Istelathis]

8 minutes ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

If it is standalone, though, I don't think iOS users would be able to install it? I guess it might be theoretically possible in the EU, but even there Apple is putting every obstacle in the way that they can. OTOH, most of the mobiles in the world run on Android. OTOOH, though, I think most of those are mid- or low-range. Would those be able to run an SL app?

I mean standalone as in not actually part of our Second Life.  A platform all of its own, which has no connection with the assets and people currently on Second Life.  They would have an easier time meeting the rules of the app stores, and would not need to make significant changes to our Second Life.  

If on the other hand, they were to abandon it completely and left the code for developers to produce mobile TPV, those third party viewers could use the appstores and go undetected or rather, just not generate enough concern for Google or Apple to get involved - just as Lumiya did, and speedlight currently is doing.

Edited May 27 by Istelathis

[CaerolleClaudel]

1 minute ago, Istelathis said:

I mean standalone as in not actually part of our Second Life.  A platform all of its own, which has no connection with the assets and people currently on Second Life.  They would have an easier time meeting the rules of the app stores, and would not need to make significant changes to our Second Life.  

If on the other hand, they were to abandon it completely and left the code for developers to produce mobile TPV, they could use the appstores and go undetected or rather, just not generate enough concern for Google or Apple to get involved - just as Lumiya did, and speedlight currently is doing.

Ah, sorry, I misunderstood. Honestly a lot of my thoughts on this whole mobile situation keeps taking me someplace close to LL developing a whole new world/environment. That doesn't seem to be what they are going for (though I guess who knows, since apparently they have not yet including some problematic features in the app as it stands?), but sure, if they decide using current SL in some way or another is not feasible, they might do that. But OMG. Seems likely to be another Sansar project.

I didn't realize that TPVs would be able to slip into the App Stores without scrutiny. I wonder about the long-term viability of that approach though, or maybe even short-term, because if the viewer becomes widely known enough to make it worthwhile (again, thinking of new users, perhaps you are thinking in terms of a better Lumiya, directed at established desktop viewers), I wonder how long it would take some people to start screaming about it and Apple in particular shutting it down. All hypothetical, of course, and my scenario is extremely negative, but I don't feel that putting resources into a mobile app that gets shut down does any of us any good.

The other thing I think about the TPV is if there is so much demand, why has Lumiya not been maintained, or another app like it been created? Is the technology too old to update, or is starting from scratch given the complexities of SL too much of a obstacle? I would guess the latter is maybe why you feel that LL releasing the code from their app project would be necessary for mobile TPVs to be viable?

[Love Zhaoying]

4 hours ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

I didn't realize that TPVs would be able to slip into the App Stores without scrutiny.

So far as I know, the TPV "Apps" we usually discuss here on the Forums were in App stores "years ago".  Whether that means they were somehow "grandfathered in", or came in "under the radar", I have no clue.

I guess my point is, I don't know about any SECOND LIFE TPV app's (can't speak for other MMO's) being recently added to the App stores. 

 

[Love Zhaoying]

4 hours ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

The other thing I think about the TPV is if there is so much demand, why has Lumiya not been maintained, or another app like it been created?

Maybe someone who knows the Lumiya developers can answer.  If it was "free" then perhaps the developers didn't make money.  Or perhaps they lost interest. 

So far as "other apps" go: (while not an "App" - it's a normal browser program)  "Speedlight.io" is "recent", is actually not bad, and was praised by some Lindens who used to come into the Forums. 

 

[CaerolleClaudel]

2 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

So far as I know, the TPV "Apps" we usually discuss here on the Forums were in App stores "years ago".  Whether that means they were somehow "grandfathered in", or came in "under the radar", I have no clue.

I guess my point is, I don't know about any SECOND LIFE TPV app's (can't speak for other MMO's) being recently added to the App stores. 

 

I was thinking of the groups that make the desktop TPVs, I didn't even think of Lumiya. That came out years ago, and was only ever in the Android App Store, I think? Not to knock on Android, but it seems fair to say that their App Store was far less mediated until the last few years.

[CaerolleClaudel]

2 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Maybe someone who knows the Lumiya developers can answer.  If it was "free" then perhaps the developers didn't make money.  Or perhaps they lost interest. 

So far as "other apps" go: (while not an "App" - it's a normal browser program)  "Speedlight.io" is "recent", is actually not bad, and was praised by some Lindens who used to come into the Forums. 

 

OK I had a whole reply typed up for this and when I reached to click Submit that browser tab died. Not going to type it all again, esp since whatever I have to say makes no difference to anything lol.

[Coffee Pancake]

11 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

There is LL blog entry march 5 2014 announcing SL GO from Online. LL was very excited about it , It would give the full SL experience on mobile, or even for those with a crappy computer.

It was basically second life in a browser.

It died after a couple of years though, I no idea why.

I'm pretty sure your question is facetious, but anyway ...

 

It died because cloud rendered video games was a dumb expensive idea that only made sense to people who wouldn't actually benefit from that kind of service themselves, and those who might, were priced out of using it because really, how much could one banana cost?

Linden shouldn't feel too bad, even the mighty Googs couldn't avoid face planting into the side of Mt Stadia.

[Kathlen Onyx]

I haven't read the whole thread and don't even remember if I posted in it however...

I have spent the last five days without internet due to a tornado. I had to use both my IPad and phone and after about 2 hours I was so fed up with it I was about to tear my hair out.  I had already had some mobile games loaded but honestly it was so hard to navigate them I gave up. NO WAY would I use the Mobile app on a phone. Possibly on my IPad but I would only use it if for some reason I couldn't get online. Using it as my only source for SL is out of the question.  Good luck SL cause I think this will be a big fail especially taking the A rated stuff off of it.

[Ineffable Mote]

There was a time when LL branched out some and attempted other offerings, such as their Patterns game and also Glytch's inworld, Horizons game etc so maybe the end game with this isn't solely Second Life (as a virtual world/open sandbox as we like to know it). If SL is still a big enough cash cow by itself, then they can probably afford to have something else up their sleeve without it being a huge risk. Though they'd still need to invest in some better brains and man hours for it.

Glancing now, I didn't realize they were using AI for mahjong - https://secondlife.com/destination/mahjong-deluxe but I'm sure things like this could be expanded on, once the mobile foundations are in place.

(I haven't read through whole thread either, so apologies if this has been brought up already. I can't see myself using it either way.)

Edited May 28 by Ineffable Mote

[Istelathis]

2 hours ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

I had to use both my IPad and phone and after about 2 hours I was so fed up with it I was about to tear my hair out.

I can relate, having a keyboard and mouse is so much nicer, the ability to quickly change windows is nice, right now I have 22 applications running.

Two Firestorm viewers on opensim, Alchemy on SL, a few different browsers and so on.  The ease of use simply outperforms anything mobile is currently capable of.  And typing, fa'get'about'it!  Although I have a brother that only uses his cellphone, and he types on that thing like a champ, I don't know how he does it, he must get 40 wpm on that thing, and it is not like his fingers are small or anything.  It is crazy, watching him and others typing on such small devices is like a blur, they got it figured out.

I hope that your property was undamaged, and that you get your internet back soon if you haven't already.

Edited May 28 by Istelathis

[Phil Deakins]

On 5/28/2024 at 12:07 AM, Love Zhaoying said:

So far as "other apps" go: (while not an "App" - it's a normal browser program)  "Speedlight.io" is "recent", is actually not bad, and was praised by some Lindens who used to come into the Forums. 

Speedlight is an app. I have and use the app in my phone. It also runs in a browser, which I used in my desktop until I got the phone app. Neither the app not the browser needs to be running to keep avatars logged in.

A Gold Speedlight account is a perk of Premium Plus, so it is recommended by LL.

Edited May 29 by Phil Deakins

[Love Zhaoying]

2 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

Speedlight is an app. I have and use the app in my phone. It also runs in a browser, which I used in my desktop until I got the phone app. Neither the app not the browser needs to be running to keep avatars logged in.

A Gold Speedlight account is a peek of Premium Plus, so it is recommended by LL.

I know all these things. Perhaps you and I disagree on whether "app" means it can be "installed". So far as I knew, it really only runs in the browser. I wouldn't call that an "app", since you wouldn't find it in an "App Store" OR need to install anything to run it. 

[Flea Yatsenko]

On 5/22/2024 at 8:33 PM, Chic Aeon said:

I have been thinking about this lately and it seems like a good thread for thoughts.

The recent Roundtable told us that the mobile ap will not be able (for now) to visit adult sims, buy linden dollars or shop the marketplace. Please correct me if I got that wrong.  

So folks that have adult sims will not be getting mobile visitors.

Creators selling on the marketplace will not be getting mobile customers. 

*************************************************************

Some folks are changing their A designation to M.  I get that. As far as "I" can see the mobile ap may get new users into SL who will later log on via computer. Of course these days there are plenty of folks who ONLY use their phone and don't have regular internet connections.  In the beginning I thought this would be a big boon for SL even though "I" would never use it. But now I am wondering if it will make much difference.  

It MIGHT encourage folks to shop inworld, but they would still need a regular internet connect in order to have linden dollars to spend.  No?  So what does the NEAR future of mobile look like? 

 

Go forth and discuss.  

 

I don't have time to read the whole thread, but I think you're reading too far into this. It was inevitable that A rated places wouldn't be allowed on Google Play and App Store. When people were trashing the app saying there's too much naughty content in SL to make it into the stores, it was suggested Adult rated places would just be flat out blocked. That's what happened.

You can buy L$ and shop the Marketplace from a web browser. Your phone has a web browser. It's not like people who only use the mobile app won't be able to buy L$ or shop the marketplace. Even if LL can't add official links to buy virtual currency to the app, creators can add links to buy L$ in their in world stores and the SLMP website will take care of that automatically. While Marketplace is in the official viewer, all it does is open up an internal web browser with the marketplace in it by default, or you can just use your primary browser instead. If the mobile app never has marketplace integration, it will be no different than the current desktop viewers opening up a browser to do marketplace shopping.

I really suspect most mobile users would buy on marketplace since in world probably won't work as well on a mobile device, just because of the input methods (no keyboard, or mouse) and the devices being a lot slower. It's awesome LL got SL to work on mobile devices but you have to have expectations.

I think there will be plenty of mobile users buying stuff. It's just going to be marketplace in a web browser, exactly like we have now. If there's not enough L$, marketplace will ask for you to buy L$ when you check out. No change from how it currently works.

The only thing to worry about is LL not releasing a direct download SL mobile app on their website that can access adult regions. SL has users that are generally more advanced than the average internet user, they should be able to figure out "install from untrusted sources" on their Android phones. Even if SL gets a user from Google Play, once they find out they can get adult stuff from the website they'll be downloading the version from the website, or even start using SL on a desktop or laptop.

[Phil Deakins]

3 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I know all these things. Perhaps you and I disagree on whether "app" means it can be "installed". So far as I knew, it really only runs in the browser. I wouldn't call that an "app", since you wouldn't find it in an "App Store" OR need to install anything to run it. 

I have it as an app in my phone, just like any other app in my phone. Check the Speedlight website. I may have got it from there. I can't remember.

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

I have it as an app in my phone, just like any other app in my phone. Check the Speedlight website. I may have got it from there. I can't remember.

Thanks. Either I never did that or forgot. (I wouldn't have needed to, unless there's some benefit to using it as an "app".)

 

[Phil Deakins]

I've only recently started using it in my phone because I haven't been spending much time with the computer these days and I can take it with me wherever I go. Speedlight doesn't need to be actually running either in a browser or in the app to keep avatars logged into SL (that's a big plus over every other system), but it's useful to be able to deal with it when I want to, and the phone is the best for me these days.

[JeromFranzic]

1 hour ago, Phil Deakins said:

I have it as an app in my phone, just like any other app in my phone. Check the Speedlight website. I may have got it from there. 

For Android users, it's free to download and use the app. For Apple users, it costs $4.99 USD to use it. It can be downloaded from Google Play and Apple App Store.

[PekeNL]

Quote

Who - aside from users - will benefit from the Mobile Ap

Who besides the people it's made for will benefit from the thing that's created for them? What?

[Vanity Fair]

On 5/24/2024 at 3:54 AM, Aethelwine said:

Surely one of the main needs for a mobile client is to pay your rent when your pc is broken. Preventing people going to pay rent in Zindra makes this whole endeavour a big fail. Or am I missing something here, I don't get why anyone would want to spend time in SL on their phone or tablet.

Sorry, still playing catchup with this thread....

Right now, you cannot do things like pay rent in the mobile app (for which I am an alpha tester). There's no support (yet) for dialogue boxes when you click on rent cubes, or to accept payments. All you can do is select objects to sit on, but it only uses the default sit animation/pose; there's no dialogue boxes for you to select from among a variety of different poses, for example.

[Vanity Fair]

Also, I am going to ask a question in this thread, and I hope that somebody has an answer for me.

Can you actually publicly write about your experience with the mobile app, and post pictures, to a blog? I know that when I entered the alpha/beta test for Sansar, we were not allowed to blog anything about it until they officially opened the doors to the public on July 31st, 2017, but I'm not certain what the rules are for alpha/beta testers.

I've been testing the mobile app for 5 months now, and I would love to be able to write up a blogpost with my impressions and some screenshots, as well as talk about many of the things that are being discussed here, but I'm not sure whether I am allowed to actually write about any of this on my blog, or post any pictures. Does anybody know? Can anybody answer this for me?

Thanks!

(I am currently only on page 7 of this thread, so it's going to take me a while to catch up.)

[Vanity Fair]

On 5/24/2024 at 6:31 AM, BilliJo Aldrin said:

radegast (text only app) looks to be still available and the apple app store lists speedlight, a supposedly fully functional 3d sl viewer. Id try it but i dont want to pay $4.99 US, plus it doesnt fully render avatars only stick figures 😂

I don't think Speedlight is around any longer, at least, last time I bothered to check. The App Store can be notorious for having apps up that should have been taken down a long time ago.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Vanity Fair said:

I don't think Speedlight is around any longer, at least, last time I bothered to check. The App Store can be notorious for having apps up that should have been taken down a long time ago.

Maybe you're thinking of an older viewer? Speedlight is fairly new and still supported in general. (I was just challenging Phil earlier on whether it qualifies as an "app" since you can just run it from the browser.)

[Vanity Fair]

On 5/24/2024 at 9:28 AM, Qie Niangao said:

Yeah, don't ask me, I'll get to see it the same time the rest of us Premiums do.

I don't know how Apple gates the folks who can try an app without listing it in the store. I assume that's a pretty limited number, or maybe it's just tremendously (legally?) complicated to make sure nobody else gets in. I certainly would assume there are NDAs involved so I would have declined anyway.

Incidentally, I re-listened to that part of Grumpity's mobile info and I think it goes to Premiums as a beta, weeks or months from now, still before listing in the store. But something I read in this thread suggested somebody thinks it will be listed and only work for Premium subscribers. Do we know of an official communication about that somewhere?

I would very much like to know the answers to these questions as well. As I said, I am still only on page 7 of this thread, so I am playing catch up.....

[Vanity Fair]

On 5/24/2024 at 9:40 AM, Love Zhaoying said:

No, last I heard the testing was moved to an "open" Alpha (or Beta?) but still only for "all" Premium Plus users. Still have to jump through flaming hoops to request access, etc. Sorry, confused lion is confused. (I already was a tester so hard to pay attention.)

 

Yes, I already have gotten into the alpha/beta test group through my one Premium Plus account. By the way, I have tested, and once you are accepted and have installed the alpha mobile app on your device, you can also connect using any of your alt accounts; they don't have to be Premium Plus members (for example, I have successfully logged in as Vanity Fair, and she is only Premium).

HOWEVER, I just got a new iPad Pro 11 for work, which is on a different Apple ID, and I have to jump through all the hoops again to get a link to be able to sign in on *that* device, which is a pain in the ass. I have made a request using my Premium Plus account, explaining that it is a separate device on a different Apple ID, and given them the associated email for that device, so we'll see how it takes for them to get back to me.

[Vanity Fair]

On 5/24/2024 at 10:14 AM, Zalificent Corvinus said:

We've covered why phones are a poor choice for SL, tablets are just over sized phones, with the same awful UII problems.

Most laptops do NOT run on android or "mobile" versions of whyOS. Mobile gaming consoles, basically that would be SteamDeck, these days, none of the others has the power needed to run SL, and the SteamDeck runs linux, and can use a standard viewer.

As for sansar on TV's, the people that are doing that are trying to use it for broadcasting concerts and sports coverage, not as a virtual world. Your linked article is 2 years old, but who is using Sansar today?

Take a look at how many people use sansar. This is current data from SteamDB.

https://steamdb.info/app/586110/charts/

 

Online right now 2, Peak numbers last 24 hours, 6.

Sansar is a bad joke.

 

I believe that you can download and use Sansar directly from their website, without having to use Steam. In that case, they wouldn't appear in the Steam user statistics. While Sansar still has a small but passionate fanbase (and, in my opinion, is still the most beautiful metaverse platform, largely due to its advanced lighting model), I agree that next to nobody is using it, which is a shame.