Will The New TOS on Child Avatars Ensnare Short Adults?

[Arielle Popstar]

7 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

second life is the only game in town, there is no other choice.

However that is no reason to continue dropping money into the game.

LL should be worried about people saying eff this, im not gonna spend another penny on a platform that might ban me tomorrow based on malicious ARs

It's not the only game in town. There are hundred of other grids out there one could go to if it becomes too much of a worry. Doesn't mean you need to close your account here, it is not an either/or situation. One could have multiple accounts on the metaverse.

[Love Zhaoying]

41 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

When I started in SL some smart people where selling invisible prims that surrounded the avatar as protection shield.
Maybe, I could start selling those as anti AR shield... 🤔

Another good Anti AR shield would be a Senra avatar of default height, with no shape modifications or special clothing, etc.  Basically, a "Ruth" or "Roth" avatar.

 

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, Phil Deakins said:

A ban right off the bat isn't going to happen with a 'maybe underage, maybe not' avatar. There are only 2 reasons to think that it might:

1. paranoia

2. just for the sake of arguing.

This exactly.  Now, if there is supporting evidence such as IMs clearly showing the avatars are engaging in AP, that would be a permaban.  But, the person filing that report with the IMs would also be guilty.and banned.  Simply a questionable look?  Nah

[Codex Alpha]

1 hour ago, Sid Nagy said:

Abusing the AR filing system with an endless stream of AR's could easily backfire to the person posting them too. I don't think LL is really happy with people who put in AR's several times a day, week, month.
There might be a line or two in the TOS that gives the Lab power to stop this adequately. (And no, I ain't gonna look them up for you. )

That goes for all types of reporting, lol. They say "Report this" but really it is "Don't report this or we will ban you for reporting too much".. So mass ARs by the same person are probably going to be ignored... and maybe even valid claims ignored too...

[Codex Alpha]

1 hour ago, Dorientje Woller said:

As mentioned in an other topic, the windlight settings of the person that files the AR makes a big difference in how you see an avatar. The AR system makes a picture in Midday settings only. That picture should be in the windlight setting of the AR'er and mentioned in the report.

Below 2 pics of the same avie, 1st one under Midday Normal, the 2nd under Midday Legacy.

Not a child. Especially since children don't dress in such attire.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

2 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

Not a child. Especially since children don't dress in such attire.

You've obviously never had to kick any off an A rated region as one of the admin staff there.

For some of them, that outfit shown would be conservatve and modest.

 

[Rowan Amore]

6 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

Not a child. Especially since children don't dress in such attire.

Really?  That's the same shape/skin aside from some extra boob and makeup, that she used to show her teen avatar in another thread...

17 hours ago, Dorientje Woller said:

There, child/teen avatar, quickly created on a legacy classic body, so for christ sake, stop dragging Maitreya in the conversation. Height 1.34m

 

Edited May 9 by Rowan Amore

[Arielle Popstar]

3 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

A ban right off the bat isn't going to happen with a 'maybe underage, maybe not' avatar. There are only 2 reasons to think that it might:

1. paranoia

2. just for the sake of arguing.

Another reason is that there are some who have much invested in their avatar, many inworld friends and just a little too much of their identity wrapped up in their character, whether as an extension of their r/l self or roleplaying character. Perhaps you are not one of those and therefore can't relate to those that do and they therefore worry about how they might appear to others and whether the short and terse information provided on the ToS and FaQ  is sufficient to allay their worry.

I do understand were you and some others are coming from being predominantly creators and store owners thinking it is all just silly and paranoia because you are not invested in your avatar but your store. You likely have no issue changing to whatever inworld avatar representation LL thinks would be best as long as they don't mess with your creations or inworld income.

[Midnoot]

I actually do find myself concerned with this off and on during my endless customizations of my avatar. 

I'm almost always short. I can't stand to be over 6 feet or whatever the SL measurement is. If it's over 6.0, It just looks weird to me. I've got a lot of lelutka heads. Say you see a 5 foot something Avalon head? usually pretty adult looking either way. Then there's a 5 foot something Gaia.. That's the borderline anime styled lelutka head.. That one I can totally see someone reporting , even if the avatar isn't blatantly a child. Prim head? 100% justified to report that sus 4$$ head :p. That one looks like a child REGARDLESS of how it has been customized.

I would hate to think that possibly buying the wrong head from a well known creator of the best heads in SL could possibly get you reported for being sus. Didn't say it would, but if it did, r.i.p. Stuck with big cheek boned, European heads only.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Arielle Popstar said:

Another reason is that there are some who have much invested in their avatar, many inworld friends and just a little too much of their identity wrapped up in their character, whether as an extension of their r/l self or roleplaying character. Perhaps you are not one of those and therefore can't relate to those that do and they therefore worry about how they might appear to others and whether the short and terse information provided on the ToS and FaQ  is sufficient to allay their worry.

I do understand were you and some others are coming from being predominantly creators and store owners thinking it is all just silly and paranoia because you are not invested in your avatar but your store. You likely have no issue changing to whatever inworld avatar representation LL thinks would be best as long as they don't mess with your creations or inworld income.

Merely because you have more invested, does not mean you SHOULD fear being AR's more, unless you are actually doing something wrong.

Since the rules are very, very clear, then you should know if you are doing something wrong or not.

If you don't trust the rules to be applied fairly, then you will not be happy in Second Life. 

 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

28 minutes ago, Flower Caerndow said:

To answer the OP - your skinny shapeless legs and lack of hips do contribute to a pre-pubescent look, but the broadness of your shoulders and shape of your face look more adult.  If it were not for those shoulders and head I would say you look like a twelve year old boy with giant boobs stuck on.  But in my opinion that head could save you, it looks quite a bit more adult than many of the newer mesh head and skin combinations - it does not appear to have the pointy chin and big eyes of the more childlike heads.

However - if you are choosing to be short in order to appeal to the desire of guys to infantilize women, then yeah - maybe you do have something to worry about.  

BTW- it is not a "war on child avatars"  - depictions of children or childlike avatars in sexual situations are against the law in the US where LL is located.  Stop it with the hyperbole and trolling.

all the new rules on child avatars does amount to a war on children, despite your protestations, and LL has enlisted the population as enforcers . When in doubt, report it,  we’ll figure it out

I found your comment on a boy with breasts rather amusing. The ex wife of the central charactor in the novel “A Man in Full” by Thomas Wolf lamented that so many of the women in her exercise class looked like boys with breasts. In fact her husband divorced her for his very own boy with breasts.

I guess this is a cultural thing that goes far beyond second life, or maybe its just bitter old women jeslous when they see a woman younger and fitter than they are.

😂

[Phil Deakins]

5 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Another reason is that there are some who have much invested in their avatar, many inworld friends and just a little too much of their identity wrapped up in their character, whether as an extension of their r/l self or roleplaying character. Perhaps you are not one of those and therefore can't relate to those that do and they therefore worry about how they might appear to others and whether the short and terse information provided on the ToS and FaQ  is sufficient to allay their worry.

That's paranoia. My #1 reason . It's the fear of losing something that causes all sorts of worst case, and imaginary, eventualities.

Edited May 9 by Phil Deakins

[Phil Deakins]

4 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

all the new rules on child avatars does amount to a war on children, despite your protestations

I don't know who was protesting but the new rules are not a war on children. They are a war on child s.e.x. Nothing more.

Edited May 9 by Phil Deakins

[Arielle Popstar]

Just now, Phil Deakins said:

That's paranoia. My #1 reason . It's the fear of losing something that causes all sorts of worst case scenarios.

Granted but it takes many a long time to overcome that fear and even then only when they start to work on it. SL is not a place conducive to overcoming it when the game is seen to be that the one with the most avatar looks wins.

[Phil Deakins]

1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Granted but it takes many a long time to overcome that fear and even then only when they start to work on it. SL is not a place conducive to overcoming it when the game is seen to be that the one with the most avatar looks wins.

I don't deny that.

Edited May 9 by Phil Deakins

[Codex Alpha]

15 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Really?  That's the same shape/skin aside from some extra boob and makeup, that she used to show her teen avatar in another thread...

 

 

Clothing, accessories and behaviour can change a perception, and LL will take it all into account. They give examples what they are looking for. For the most part, the 'child' avatars that need to be most concerned are the clearly 0-12 years old range, and those who 'present' as pre-pubescent.

After that, with the more developed breasts and curves of more mature female avatars, the issue is less concerning to anyone really.

As is here:

In some cases there may be an element of subjectivity as to whether an avatar (or other image) appears to be a minor. Objective factors which will be used to decide include whether an avatar has childlike facial features, is child-sized, has clothing or accessories generally associated with children, and whether, based on the circumstances, an avatar is speaking or acting like a child ("My Mommy says...").

Note: Merely having a childlike avatar does not violate this policy. It is not our intent to banish childlike avatars in and of themselves.

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Clarification_of_policy_disallowing_ageplay

Edited May 9 by Codex Alpha

[Arielle Popstar]

9 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Merely because you have more invested, does not mean you SHOULD fear being AR's more, unless you are actually doing something wrong.

Since the rules are very, very clear, then you should know if you are doing something wrong or not.

If you don't trust the rules to be applied fairly, then you will not be happy in Second Life. 

 

The rules are not clear for many. That is why there was a 250 page thread already that have branched off to other threads. The rules are applied by humans we don't know so therefore it is impossible to state whether that will be done fairly and those who choose to stick their head in the sand when there are those who point out their treatment hasn't been fair in past, are really not to be relied on for sound advice.

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Arielle Popstar said:

The rules are not clear for many. That is why there was a 250 page thread already that have branched off to other threads. The rules are applied by humans we don't know so therefore it is impossible to state whether that will be done fairly and those who choose to stick their head in the sand when there are those who point out their treatment hasn't been fair in past, are really not to be relied on for sound advice.

2 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

From the faq:

Q: Does the height or gender of my avatar define it as a child avatar?

A: No. We review many factors from an Abuse Report to come to a final conclusion, and height or gender alone are not grounds for Governance action.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

26 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

 

First off, you have to use your own judgement. Only you know your use and intent of any avatar - and which sims you will visit, and the actions you will do and the things you participate in.

As far as the avatar you present in the picture - I wouldn't blink twice or care. To ME, a 'child'-avatar and the ones I usually see, are clearly younger - age 12 and down... those are the ones usually caught up in controversy.

Remember this is more about BEHAVIOURS and ACTIONS, not an attack on young looking avatars.

That being said, LL says...

In some cases there may be an element of subjectivity as to whether an avatar (or other image) appears to be a minor. Objective factors which will be used to decide include whether an avatar has childlike facial features, is child-sized, has clothing or accessories generally associated with children, and whether, based on the circumstances, an avatar is speaking or acting like a child ("My Mommy says...").

Note: Merely having a childlike avatar does not violate this policy. It is not our intent to banish childlike avatars in and of themselves.

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Clarification_of_policy_disallowing_ageplay

 

to me, standing alone I totally look like an adult, but in a room full of 8 ft giants (male and female) it could be like hey, who let the kid in?

In fact it makes me uncomfortable sometimes when i only come up to just over everyones waist

Whats the solution? Oh just go bigger they say

Nope sorry took me 14 years in SL to get here, and here is where I’m staying.

If i end up just hanging out with my short friends, it is what it is.

 

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, Codex Alpha said:

with the more developed breasts and curves of more mature female avatars

It's almost as if you never go out into SL or RL.    

[BilliJo Aldrin]

15 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

I don't know who was protesting but the new rules are not a war on children. They are a war on child s.e.x. Nothing more.

and yet, the new rules only target the children that are not engaged in s.e.x

why is that?

[Codex Alpha]

6 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

to me, standing alone I totally look like an adult, but in a room full of 8 ft giants (male and female) it could be like hey, who let the kid in?

In fact it makes me uncomfortable sometimes when i only come up to just over everyones waist

Whats the solution? Oh just go bigger they say

Nope sorry took me 14 years in SL to get here, and here is where I’m staying.

If i end up just hanging out with my short friends, it is what it is.

 

I think you're fine, but I'm not LL - so I understand I will be no help in allaying your fears. I can only offer my opinion and hopefully a sound argument to support it.

5 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

It's almost as if you never go out into SL or RL.    

This is not how it works, you have to take my response in it's whole and respond.  I can't reply to your statement as it is just hanging there, out of context, and with no argument made behind it.

[Madi Melodious]

4 hours ago, stlshayne said:

As has been said: we will all use our best judgement on what looks "adult" or not. 

 

In the picture you provided - the avatar has - forgive me - sizeable breasts, which I feel is adult enough. I see nothing markedly underage-looking. Height is just a single thing to take into account. 

 

Now - if this was a short, flat-chested, acne-ridden, braces-having, pigtail-wearing, Trapper Keeper holding avatar sporting a backpack, I might have a different opinion. But I don't think height is ever going be be the determining factor. 

There 'best judgement" might not be good enough.  There are all kinds of, admittedly kinky reasons, a adult avatar could be dressed as school girl, complete with trapper keeper and backpack.  In RL when I was 12 my chest was flat, my best friends was, considerably larger.  In the right outfit she could have been mistaken for a short adult.  She was 12 too.  

[Innula Zenovka]

28 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Another reason is that there are some who have much invested in their avatar, many inworld friends and just a little too much of their identity wrapped up in their character, whether as an extension of their r/l self or roleplaying character. Perhaps you are not one of those and therefore can't relate to those that do and they therefore worry about how they might appear to others and whether the short and terse information provided on the ToS and FaQ  is sufficient to allay their worry.

I do understand were you and some others are coming from being predominantly creators and store owners thinking it is all just silly and paranoia because you are not invested in your avatar but your store. You likely have no issue changing to whatever inworld avatar representation LL thinks would be best as long as they don't mess with your creations or inworld income.

That being the case, it seems they will need to avoid adult regions and r-p situations.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

3 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

hopefully a sound argument to support it

Based on Posting History.

Not holding my breath while I wait.

 

10 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

It's almost as if you never go out into SL or RL.   

4 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

I can't reply to your statement as it is just hanging there, out of context, and with no argument made behind it.

That's not how it works.

It's called an observation.  The observation made is that your comments indicate that you seldom leave the safety of your Home Office Of Solitude, and actually see the reality of SL.