Will The New TOS on Child Avatars Ensnare Short Adults?

[Phil Deakins]

5 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Its not the guilty that are leaving, they have no reason to leave, they will continue breaking the rules regardless of how many new rules LL hands down.

All you are driving away those that don’t break the rules.

Do you know of anyone who has been driven away by the new rules? Or anyone who is even considering leaving because of them? I'm just curious about this "large number" you keep mentioning.

 

15 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

If the ones leaving aren't just "paranoid", but they are mad because they can't do things anymore that are against the TOS, then "good riddance". 

I agree with this ^^

[Persephone Emerald]

18 hours ago, OthirMan said:

I'm reading the below.  A 16-17 is STILL a CHILD.  Why are they allowed AT ALL in the Adult-rated regions?

• Sending sexually explicit media to a child or child-presenting avatar.
• Engaging or trying to engage a child or child-presenting avatar in a sexually explicit conversation.
• Trying to obtain sexually explicit media from a child or child-presenting avatar, or trying to engage a child or child-presenting avatar in sexual activity through blackmail or other incentives.
•  

Technically all minor-presenting avatars are no longer allowed in Adult regions. This includes babies up to 17 year olds.

However, there's no way to really distinguish between a 16 year old vs. an 18 year old (as long as someone doesn't say their avatar is under 18).

I think young teens in Adult regions are going to be tricky to identify and report, but as long as an avatar (including their profile and dialog) clearly looks like a minor to you, you can report them and let Goverance sort it out.

[Phil Deakins]

27 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

UnPopular opinion: If the ones leaving aren't just "paranoid", but they are mad because they can't do things anymore that are against the TOS, then "good riddance". 

FIFY

Edited May 16 by Phil Deakins

[Persephone Emerald]

17 hours ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

Okay but here is the thing, you can't be doing Lewd or sexual gesture or animations in public, in an m rated sim. That is how he violated the rules, doesn't matter if he is a kid or an adult presenting avatar. HE broke the rules, and should be held accountable for his actions. 

Actually you can. Sex in public in Moderate regions is against the TOS, but nudity and lewd gestures aren't. Just think of all the ass-slapping and lewd chat in clubs. Even in stores on Moderate land, people use suggestive and lewd gestures.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

16 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Do you know of anyone who has been driven away by the new rules? Or anyone who is even considering leaving because of them? I'm just curious about this "large number" you keep mentioning.

 

 

Talk to @Coffee Pancake, according to her many people that play children are upset. 

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

but nudity and lewd gestures aren't.

Can I give a bratty kid "the finger"?

Asking for a friend.

 

[Phil Deakins]

5 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Talk to @Coffee Pancake, according to her many people that play children are upset. 

I didn't ask about those who are upset. I'll repeat the question...

23 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Do you know of anyone who has been driven away by the new rules? Or anyone who is even considering leaving because of them? I'm just curious about this "large number" you keep mentioning.

You keep talking about the "large number", so I'm asking you.

Edited May 16 by Phil Deakins

[BilliJo Aldrin]

maybe its time for a new rule in the TOS to battle the scourge of pedo crime in Second Lab.

Anyone the observes a pedo crime in second life and fails to report it, is guilty of aiding and abetting pedo crime and will be permabanned

Everyone happy now?

carry on 😁

[brodiac90]

1 minute ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Talk to @Coffee Pancake, according to her many people that play children are upset. 

I know many people who are upset, and know of some who have left or have cancelled premiums etc. I cancelled my premium on May 2nd when we knew less and because of all the uncertainty. I may renew at some point in the future but that entirely depends on how things are going forward.  

[Arielle Popstar]

20 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Do you know of anyone who has been driven away by the new rules? Or anyone who is even considering leaving because of them? I'm just curious about this "large number" you keep mentioning.

Those who have already been banned have of course left. Those who have heard about it are watching with caution but at this point only a small minority realize the ToS change or understand its implication. 

You could possibly lose a few sales in future.

[Love Zhaoying]

7 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Talk to @Coffee Pancake, according to her many people that play children are upset. 

I bet they are throwing absolute tantrums!

[Phil Deakins]

6 minutes ago, brodiac90 said:

[...] and know of some who have left [...]

How many do you actually know about?

It doesn't really matter though, because it will only ever get to be a very small number - maybe a handful or so. Not the large number that has been said more than once.

Edited May 16 by Phil Deakins

[Phil Deakins]

1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Those who have already been banned have of course left.

We're not talking about people who have been banned. They didn't have a choice. We're talking about people who have left because of the new rules, which is different.

[Sadvhi]

3 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Actually you can. Sex in public in Moderate regions is against the TOS, but nudity and lewd gestures aren't. Just think of all the ass-slapping and lewd chat in clubs. Even in stores on Moderate land, people use suggestive and lewd gestures.

I'm glad you clarified this! Things could get a bit complicated because child avatars need to visit Moderate sims to shop, to try new animations, buy items for their home or farm, etc. So they may sometimes find themselves in the presence of adults who are not fully clothed and/or using lewd gestures. 

[Kathlen Onyx]

6 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

maybe its time for a new rule in the TOS to battle the scourge of pedo crime in Second Lab.

Anyone the observes a pedo crime in second life and fails to report it, is guilty of aiding and abetting pedo crime and will be permabanned

Everyone happy now?

carry on 😁

As it should be. I'll vote for that. Might be hard to prove though. I mean it's not like people are admitting on the actual SL forum that they didn't report a TOS violation. That would just be stupid right?

[brodiac90]

1 minute ago, Phil Deakins said:

How many do you actually know about?

I know of over 100 child avatars on a personal level who are either upset or concerned and I wouldn't even consider myself someone who is at the centre of the community. People who own things like Starries or Toddleedoo would have a much better idea. 

As for those who have left. I know of at least 5 who have specifically said this is why I'm leaving. I beleive @Madi Melodious knows more and has a better idea of how many people have cancelled premiums or closed sims. It's not an insignificant amount though. 

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Phil Deakins said:

We're not talking about people who have been banned. They didn't have a choice. We're talking about people who have left because of the new rules, which is different.

Depends then how you define "left". People closing accounts probably not many if at all. People who are no longer logging in, definitely some. People logging in a lot less, probably a fair few.  People logged in but parked and no longer buying, quite a few more.

[Love Zhaoying]

9 minutes ago, brodiac90 said:

I know many people who are upset, and know of some who have left or have cancelled premiums etc. I cancelled my premium on May 2nd when we knew less and because of all the uncertainty. I may renew at some point in the future but that entirely depends on how things are going forward.  

I've followed a lot of your posts, and you and I also spoke in DM about a couple things - I did not come away with the idea that you, yourself are "upset" by the changes.  Is that true, are you OK with everything?  I hope so! 🙂

 

[brodiac90]

14 minutes ago, Sadvhi said:

I'm glad you clarified this! Things could get a bit complicated because child avatars need to visit Moderate sims to shop, to try new animations, buy items for their home or farm, etc. So they may sometimes find themselves in the presence of adults who are not fully clothed and/or using lewd gestures. 

Yep, which is why a lot of child avatars now feel as though they're second class citizens. Technically we're allowed on M land but it really depends on what's happening there. Even if the venue we were in was perfectly fine when we arrived, if things change then the onus is on us to leave. That is also technically true of G rated land too, although the offenders would at least get into trouble there. 

Edited May 16 by brodiac90

[Phil Deakins]

4 minutes ago, brodiac90 said:

I know of over 100 child avatars on a personal level who are either upset or concerned and I wouldn't even consider myself someone who is at the centre of the community. People who own things like Starries or Toddleedoo would have a much better idea. 

As for those who have left. I know of at least 5 who have specifically said this is why I'm leaving. I beleive @Madi Melodious knows more and has a better idea of how many people have cancelled premiums or closed sims. It's not an insignificant amount though. 

So you know of ~5 who have actually left because of the new rules. That's fine, but it doesn't amount to the large number that has been purported. And that's what I'm getting it. Thank you.

Total speculation
Those who did leave because of the new rules probably left because they will no longer be allowed to do what they've been doing, such as being in Adult sims, or being naked, or worse, and I'm perfectly happy with that.

 

Edited May 16 by Phil Deakins

[brodiac90]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I've followed a lot of your posts, and you and I also spoke in DM about a couple things - I did not come away with the idea that you, yourself are "upset" by the changes.  Is that true, are you OK with everything?  I hope so! 🙂

 

@Love Zhaoying My feelings are complicated. Do I broadly agree with the rule changes? Yes. 

Am I conerned about what it might mean for content I already own? Absolutely. If Tweenster does not update then I'm going to lose about 2000 items of clothing costing me thousands of RL dollars. I'll also need to invest in another avatar and clothing, say Tweeneedoo (the closest in size). So, in some ways, a lot of things are still up in the air for the time being. 

Do I understand the need for the modesty layers? Yes, does it make me feel any less dirty or ashamed that they're necessary? No, they're a constant reminder that sick things go on in SL and even though I've done nothing wrong it still feels icky. 

 

Edited May 16 by brodiac90

[brodiac90]

4 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

So you know of ~5 who have actually left because of the new rules. That's fine, but it doesn't amount to the large number that has been purported. And that's what I'm getting it. Thank you.

 

 

Yes, 5 people I know of, but I am only one person. Extrapolate that to other people and the number will grow.... 

[Kathlen Onyx]

4 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

So you know of ~5 who have actually left because of the new rules. That's fine, but it doesn't amount to the large number that has been purported. And that's what I'm getting it. Thank you.

Total speculation
Those who did leave because of the new rules probably left because they will no longer be allowed to do what they've been doing, such as being in Adult sims, or being naked, or worse, and I'm perfectly happy with that.

 

Ok, so I get maybe being a bit nervous to commit to a subscription until this all pans out and we see what the implications really are but why leave? What does leaving do but affect the person leaving. I mean if you get banned you essentially aren't here either so I don't get it.

I think the people that say they are leaving are just not logging in maybe for now. The real question would be "how many people have left AND deleted their account"  Even that doesn't say a whole lot as you can always get your account back.

[Rowan Amore]

And perhaps those who have "left" have actually just switched to another account and are using an adult avatar.   We're all just guessing.  

If I were using a child only account, I'd already have another account that was adult.  I'm sure many in the children's community do the same.    Just as many use different accounts for different RP scenarios.  

[Phil Deakins]

7 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Depends then how you define "left". People closing accounts probably not many if at all. People who are no longer logging in, definitely some. People logging in a lot less, probably a fair few.  People logged in but parked and no longer buying, quite a few more.

The statements I'm addressing were about the effect of a "large number" of people leaving SL because of the new rules. I'm querying that statement because I am absolutely certain that it will never happen.

 

3 minutes ago, brodiac90 said:

Yes, 5 people I know of, but I am only one person. Extrapolate that to other people and the number will grow.... 

Grow, yes/maybe, but it will never reach a significant number relative to the SL usership, imo. Also, in some or many cases, it is good that they leave, imo.