So what changed in the Terms of Service?

[Qie Niangao]

50 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

This is where I'm confused, the whole "wearing".

I know what the LL new guidelines say, but isn't this simply solved by child avatar makers simply having a range of default avatar "skins" in a HUD that a user can choose from (to match the chosen head skin etc) that have the modesty patches applied (whatever the guidelines on size coverage etc turn out to be), and not having the avatar able to be BoM or wear any other skin in any way?

How could a user possibly then running one of these avatars even wear a skin that lacked a modesty thing?

I'm expecting child avatars to not be modifiable at the base skin "layer" at all beyond what the maker themselves allow.

Something like Maitreya's base skin panel, no BoM, and that's your only available choices. (Obviously these would include the modesty panels.)

That would do it, but I'd suppose a bunch of creators of other BOM content (not just skins) would be pretty disappointed that all their products were suddenly obsolete. Also, to actually prevent anything, those bodies would have to be locked-down to not accept any applier scripts (e.g., Omega), lest somebody use them to paint the system BOM textures on instead, making the whole avatar BOM-compatible again.

[Sammy Huntsman]

6 minutes ago, Leslie Trihey said:

Definitely adult, but if you were my daughter I'd still tell you that Zindra is no place for vulnerable young goth girls. 😝

Will you be my mama

[Vivienne Schell]

10 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

That's nothing to do with the modesty layer (nor any texture). It's about body shape.

child avatar skins or bodies

NOT and.

[Katherine Heartsong]

12 minutes ago, Leslie Trihey said:

Random thought: Losing access to BOM would also suck. BOM covers so much, stocking/socks, skin details like freckles, cute additions like stickers or knee/elbow bandages. Undershirts/Underlayers. Could be solved with appliers but appliers are kind of old fashioned now, and they were very limited even at there peak.

True, and you're right it sucks (beyond losing access to non-updated bodies, clothes etc) that's why I am super curious how this modesty thing is going to actually technically work.

[Alwin Alcott]

Just another, line from the announcement about the TOS

 

Quote

We recently posted our inititial post to community concerns about alleged violations of company and community policies by employees, contractors, and community members

we have the outcome of the last two words here ... where's the rest of the thing?

[Chery Amore]

Well with Maitreya  if they don't want to get mixed up in the mess they can just say ... nopity, nope.  No updates planned. It won't lose them customers since the bodies have been bought.  Well other than new word of mouth customers that want to play younger teens.  Frankly I don't know where I'd land on that subject if I were a creator in that situation not specifically creating for underage avatars.

[Madi Melodious]

4 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

That's not sexual. It prevents me from getting lost!

My adult alt and her husband placed open collar scripts in their wedding rings.   They replaced the chains with hearts.  When they go skating one will "link" to the other and they will follow each other with a chain of hearts between them.  It's very romantic. 🥰

Don't tell her I said that.  She is still mad at me from the time I rented her hot tub out to a bunch of furries.   How was I to know they were shedding.  🤔

[Katherine Heartsong]

7 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

That would do it, but I'd suppose a bunch of creators of other BOM content (not just skins) would be pretty disappointed that all their products were suddenly obsolete. Also, to actually prevent anything, those bodies would have to be locked-down to not accept any applier scripts (e.g., Omega), lest somebody use them to paint the system BOM textures on instead, making the whole avatar BOM-compatible again.

Precisely what's driving my curiosity, the whole "how is this possible to do?" questions. How do you have a modesty layer that can't be removed or, by association(?), tampered with.

[Katherine Heartsong]

2 minutes ago, Madi Melodious said:

My adult alt and her husband placed open collar scripts in their wedding rings.   They replaced the chains with hearts.  When they go skating one will "link" to the other and they will follow each other with a chain of hearts between them.  It's very romantic. 🥰

Oh my god that is so ADORABLE!!!!!!!

[Vivienne Schell]

2 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

Just another, line from the announcement about the TOS

 

we have the outcome of the last two words here ... where's the rest of the thing?

[brodiac90]

2 minutes ago, Chery Amore said:

Well with Maitreya  if they don't want to get mixed up in the mess they can just say ... nopity, nope.  No updates planned. It won't lose them customers since the bodies have been bought.  Well other than new word of mouth customers that want to play younger teens.  Frankly I don't know where I'd land on that subject if I were a creator in that situation not specifically creating for underage avatars.

If I were them I'd make moves to very clearly label all my content as adult and include disclaimers. "This avatar is only intended for adults and adult use, using this avatar in any other way is a violation of TOS. The creator will not be held responsible for residents who violate TOS in this way."

[brodiac90]

4 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

Precisely what's driving my curiosity, the whole "how is this possible to do?" questions. How do you have a modesty layer that can't be removed or, by association(?), tampered with.

It's one of the first questions I asked. Effectively all child avatars are broken currently and unless this issue can be resolved it defacto bans child avatars. I'm hoping it just means skins but part of me thinks this is just some legal talk from LL lawyers who have no idea how SL actually works. Intent is one thing, what the policy actually states is another. 

Edited May 7 by brodiac90

[Qie Niangao]

11 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said:

23 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

That's nothing to do with the modesty layer (nor any texture). It's about body shape.

child avatar skins or bodies

NOT and.

I don't know what you mean. I was responding to your comment about the Policy's prohibition of "Child avatars where the focal point of the body is on the breasts, pelvis, or buttocks" which means (to me) they can't wear big butts, boobs, etc, rather than a constraint on textures. So I'm not sure what you're saying.

Edited May 7 by Qie Niangao
double quote

[Vivienne Schell]

1 minute ago, brodiac90 said:

It's one of the first questions I asked. Effectively all child avatars are broken currently

No. Two months left.

[brodiac90]

1 minute ago, Vivienne Schell said:

No. Two months left.

And the clock is ticking. 

[Starberry Passion]

27 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

How old do y'all think I look? I mean I think I look like an adult, I don't look mature or some crap. Lol 

You look 32 to me. Idk how people are seeing 16. 

[Codex Alpha]

. Will be posted in a dedicated avatar discussion, or someone will AR me.

Edited May 7 by Codex Alpha

[Zalificent Corvinus]

6 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

Precisely what's driving my curiosity, the whole "how is this possible to do?" questions. How do you have a modesty layer that can't be removed or, by association(?), tampered with.

That question, has been answered about 6 or 7 times by at least two different people, including direct replies to Qie asking that question about 50 pages back. He keeps ignoring the answers and asking the same question over and over again, each time with ever more fanciful "over think the problem backwards from the wrong starting point" interpretations.

 

Here's how you do it.

1. Take your BoM AR Clickbait body.

2. Cut holes in it to remove all the polygons LL say nobody must ever see.

3. Cover the holes with with new mesh "enforcement" patches, possibly taking the extra time to disguise them as bad underwear, or possibly just strips of duct tape.

4. Make a new section on the body's HUD to chose a selection of NON-skin coloured textures/colours for the patchess/duct tape

5. Set the whole thing NO-Mod

6. Package and distribute the NEW ToS compliant AR Clickbait body to  your customers.

 

It's NOT the rocket science problem Qie thinks it is.

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

36 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

How old do y'all think I look? I mean I think I look like an adult, I don't look mature or some crap. Lol

It's probably best not to start this trend again, since we've already been asked not to (it was a while back but I'm guessing it still applies)...

On 5/5/2024 at 7:12 PM, Quartz Mole said:

I think if anyone wants to post some more pictures of avatars to discuss how old they look, it would be best so to do in a thread dedicated to that topic, possibly in the Your Avatar forum.  

If someone would like to start that thread, I'll port the last few pictures over, but please don't post any more of them in this thread.

[Alwin Alcott]

9 minutes ago, brodiac90 said:

And the clock is ticking. 

good i don't have kids ( anymore) ... i'd return them to sender... 

[Denim Robonaught]

5 hours ago, brodiac90 said:

then it's tuck in time in my kid bed which only has kid friendly animations. It isn't a PG bed, it's a bed specifically designed for kid avatars. PG furniture is often just adult furniture with the explicit animations removed. 

 

Yes my kids had those too. They enjoyed them a lot.

[Qie Niangao]

Just now, Zalificent Corvinus said:

That question, has been answered about 6 or 7 times by at least two different people, including direct replies to Qie asking that question about 50 pages back. He keeps ignoring the answers and asking the same question over and over again, each time with ever more fanciful "over think the problem backwards from the wrong starting point" interpretations.

 

Here's how you do it.

1. Take your BoM AR Clickbait body.

2. Cut holes in it to remove all the polygons LL say nobody must ever see.

3. Cover the holes with with new mesh "enforcement" patches, possibly taking the extra time to disguise them as bad underwear, or possibly just strips of duct tape.

4. Make a new section on the body's HUD to chose a selection of NON-skin coloured textures/colours for the patchess/duct tape

5. Set the whole thing NO-Mod

6. Package and distribute the NEW ToS compliant AR Clickbait body to  your customers.

 

It's NOT the rocket science problem Qie thinks it is.

It's not rocket science and if you'd read my reply you'd know I said it would work but it would make fully obsolete all existing avatar bodies, not just skins, and (notwithstanding what the FAQ says) the actual Policy specifically says "skins or bodies". Moreover, to actually be effective it would have to apply to any body used by anyone playing an underage character, which is practically every mesh body in existence. As I said for alliterative effect "Belleza better get busy".

Here's the thing: Creators must know what's actually intended and be under nondisclosure. Otherwise we'd have heard from them or the Lab. God forbid anybody decide to go into making compliant child avatars right now because the cartel is closed for business until June 30th.

[Vivienne Schell]

4 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

Just for reference, and some laugh and giggles, this is another platform-that-which-will-not-be-named's idea of modestly clothing, on a platform that allegedly claims "18+" and originally wanted "12+", but frequently created events and concerts geared to 4-6 year olds "Mommy Shark Daddy Shark"... so who knows what market they wanted to invite.

Overall it was an infantilizing experience, but that's the way of the world now

Do you really think the boy would need a bra on him too? Really?

What should be of note, is that even with this "BOM" / baked skin clothing it didn't stop certain activities from happening, and some individuals found out to be participating in TOS-breaking behaviour anyway.

This is why I think it's more important to address the behaviours and actions of an account, rather than an appearance, though I don't really care either way - on child avatars I don't need details.

If you ever logged in the failed Linden Lab Sansar thing....these layers were mandatory for everyone there. Not as if the clothes creators could not deal with the layers, they did. Now it only will become mandatory for child avis. And i wonder why some (by far not all) child players whine, cause hell, does a supposed to be 12 ys old girl avatar need to wear thongs, string bikinis or "sexy" lingerie instead of these undies ? Certainly not.

[Love Zhaoying]

Once the new rules are in place, will the Forum Cartel be able to allow child avatars into the parties?

[Codex Alpha]

7 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said:

If you ever logged in the failed Linden Lab Sansar thing....these layers were mandatory for everyone there. Not as if the clothes creators could not deal with the layers, they did. Now it only will become mandatory for child avis. And i wonder why some (by far not all) child players whine, cause hell, does a supposed to be 12 ys old girl avatar need to wear thongs, string bikinis or "sexy" lingerie instead of these undies ? Certainly not.

Nope, and I'm on record saying I don't care, I don't need those sort of details, so pants away. It's also kind of pathetic though conversely, as there are kids that are playing with dolls that don't have modesty layers on them, but arguably older kids past their barbie doll stage, and the majority of adult users on SL, have to play with dolls with stricter protocols. So its a bit ridiculous.

And another user suggested that even boy child avatars require a shirt.. lol.. How far and stupid and insulting are we going to take this?

Edited May 7 by Codex Alpha