So what changed in the Terms of Service?

[Arielle Popstar]

3 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

So, you're saying all the child avatars at Giggles and Family safe are innocent?  Those are the ones I'm talking about.  The ones run by creepy adults.  Not child avatars in general.

Don't presume to know what I know.  You might be surprised.

Well now you're extending it. What happens after one is taken advantage of the first time or two? Does one then put their foot down and say "never again!" or is the typical path lead one to become more open to receiving "love" in that manner since in some ways it is so easy to do in SL? Does the victim then become a perpetrator?

Deeper questions for sure but maybe how some heal by finding the answers to questions they been asking themself for a long time.

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, brodiac90 said:

5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Isn't a presumption of "possible wrong-doing" exactly why these changes are needed?  Or, are the changes needed just because of "laws"?

Let's get real here, there were kid avis who were bad actors in all this. As I've said before, people who play with genuine kid avatars hate those type of kid avatars more than anyone else. I gurantee that.

Thank you!

[Vivienne Schell]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Isn't a presumption of "possible wrong-doing" exactly why these changes are needed?  Or, are the changes needed just because of "laws"?

The changes are a minimum of necessary prevention of possible wrongdoing which would violate international and national laws. Not to mention the devastating impact of another (to be expected without this set of still moderate changes) media campain against "Paedo Paradise SL". Child Avatar Pilots should be grateful that they were and still are tolerated at all  under the recent circumstances.

[Leslie Trihey]

11 minutes ago, AnthonyJoanne said:

I'll bite.

What demographic do you fall in?

How do you justify your claim that your demographic pioneered the technology if you aren't a Baby Boomer?

(You may already have answered this question ... I'm five pages behind, but if I wait until I get to the end I'll forget to ask)

Elder millennial. (That being said this conversation got nipped in the bud earlier by staff so not sure if it's wise to continue it)

[Rowan Amore]

6 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Well now you're extending it. What happens after one is taken advantage of the first time or two? Does one then put their foot down and say "never again!" or is the typical path lead one to become more open to receiving "love" in that manner since in some ways it is so easy to do in SL? Does the victim then become a perpetrator?

Deeper questions for sure but maybe how some heal by finding the answers to questions they been asking themself for a long time.

No,.that was what my comment was concerning from the start.  The bad child actors.

Sorry Arielle but you've said on more.than one occasion, if something you're doing seems.to be attracting a specific kind of attention, you'd reevaluate yourself.to.figure out what you keep.doing that might be causing it and.change.  

The first time some creep made any type of inappropriate advance on my child avatar,  I'd be reporting.  

ETA...not going to respond to anymore remarks about this.  The post I quoted from you is not exactly appropriate for this thread.

 

Edited May 6 by Rowan Amore

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

We need cliff notes, this is going to be huge!

[Branduff Bisnovat]

5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Exactly what do you want to see shown in an infographic?

Like, a flowchart of "Is avatar an Adult? <Yes/No>", "Is avatar naked? <Yes/No>"?

Yes please I love the flowchart idea 😂

Honestly I have no idea, I feel like someone with a communications degree or something would have a better idea. Some of the simpler guidelines feel like they could be explained in a surface level way without directing people to a wall of text though. Maybe a powerpoint presentation instead of an infographic 🤔

[AnthonyJoanne]

Just now, Leslie Trihey said:

Elder millennial. (That being said this conversation got nipped in the bud earlier by staff so not sure if it's wise to continue it)

Fair enough.

I'll let it slide and not dispute your claim then.

 

[Leslie Trihey]

1 minute ago, SpiritSparrow Skydancer said:

We need cliff notes, this is going to be huge!

😛

 

[Denim Robonaught]

38 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Once again, let's say what the policy actually says...

Is simple nudity without sex Adult?

Depending on context, nudity may not require an Adult rating. For example all of the following could be rated Moderate:

• A nude beach without sexual activity.
• Skin vendors showing a nude skin to display the product.
• Nude art that is not sexual.
• Strip clubs that do not use adult words in search or host sex furniture.

Depending on the context, exposed genitalia may not be considered Adult. For example:

• Hanging out at a nude beach would be fine.
• Walking around pants-less on the mainland could be inappropriate.

Non-sexualized depictions of nudity are Moderate NOT Adult.

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Adult_Content_FAQ

Now here's where people say, "They didn't say it WAS ALWAYS inappropriate."

I think you make an excellent point here, and there are various other subjects on the same page that I've been trying to explain in several replies.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

you know what? these new rules will be unworkable, lets just have one rule, the one rule that directly addresses the problem: boff a kid, both parties are perma banned. you’ll catch more pedos if you let them do it out in the open instead of on a hidden private sim. Property owners can decide if they want kids or not, and that will be all of adult and most of moderate.

Of course that is too simple, so we will have this unworkable mess no one will be happy with.

That is all, carry on 😂

[Ceka Cianci]

13 minutes ago, SpiritSparrow Skydancer said:

The age of consent around the world varies from 11 to 21, but the most common ages range from 14-16, according to the World Population Review. In some countries, such as Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Libya, Iran, Pakistan, and Qatar, there is no age of consent but people must be married.

 

 So, I wonder if a teen (I was active at 16) at age 16 would be in violation of Linden Law.  Or is it a country (state) by Country (state) basis? However, my state is 18 yo...  so under age 18 where I am can get you in jail!

 In Nigeria for example, age 11. (I was shocked)

So, what ages (child) are we talking about? I might have missed that part.

In the U.S there are more states where it's 16 than 18. But there is also that range where it has to be like 2 years apart.. you can't have some 40 year old picking up 16 year old girls.. hehehe

It's more for those that were dating before they were 18 and one of them turns 18 before the other does..

[Denim Robonaught]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I'm not "in a heated argument" - I'm just playing "what if" - and drew my own line in the sand.

Assuming I don't WANT to give up being a Furry - but WOULD, given the choice, to protect my other "rights":

What would YOU give up to prevent your own rights eroding?

Only Adult avatar answers, if you please.  I don't see how the Child avatars will have anything positive to contribute - they are the once trying to get "more" and we end up with "less".

I normally say this is not a "zero sum game", but y'all made it one! 🙂

 

The opposite of what you're saying?

[Arielle Popstar]

6 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

ETA...not going to respond to anymore remarks about this.  The post I quoted from you is not exactly appropriate for this thread.

It is the exact reason why these ToS changes were made. If one doesn't understand the Why they will certainly not have any idea on the How. As you said already in another post

Quote

IMO, they were put in place to help prevent wrong doing.  It won't be effective.

 

[Aya Sweetheart]

22 minutes ago, SpiritSparrow Skydancer said:

The age of consent around the world varies from 11 to 21, but the most common ages range from 14-16, according to the World Population Review. In some countries, such as Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Libya, Iran, Pakistan, and Qatar, there is no age of consent but people must be married.

 

 So, I wonder if a teen (I was active at 16) at age 16 would be in violation of Linden Law.  Or is it a country (state) by Country (state) basis? However, my state is 18 yo...  so under age 18 where I am can get you in jail!

 In Nigeria for example, age 11. (I was shocked)

So, what ages (child) are we talking about? I might have missed that part.

local laws are often overriden by federal laws... but none of that RL stuff matters here.

in SL, 18+ is adult and there is no sexual anything allowed for anyone or any character under 18.

[Vivienne Schell]

Just now, Aya Sweetheart said:

local laws are often overriden by federal laws... but none of that RL stuff matters here..

You sure that you were born in SL? 😁

[Love Zhaoying]

17 minutes ago, AnthonyJoanne said:

21 minutes ago, Leslie Trihey said:

Elder millennial. (That being said this conversation got nipped in the bud earlier by staff so not sure if it's wise to continue it)

Fair enough.

I'll let it slide and not dispute your claim then.

If this platform has been around since about 2004, how did even "elder" millennials create / establish it?

Wow, that's confusing!

[Persephone Emerald]

46 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Once again, let's say what the policy actually says...

Is simple nudity without sex Adult?

Depending on context, nudity may not require an Adult rating. For example all of the following could be rated Moderate:

• A nude beach without sexual activity.
• Skin vendors showing a nude skin to display the product.
• Nude art that is not sexual.
• Strip clubs that do not use adult words in search or host sex furniture.

Depending on the context, exposed genitalia may not be considered Adult. For example:

• Hanging out at a nude beach would be fine.
• Walking around pants-less on the mainland could be inappropriate.

Non-sexualized depictions of nudity are Moderate NOT Adult.

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Adult_Content_FAQ

Now here's where people say, "They didn't say it WAS ALWAYS inappropriate."

I don't want to make things more difficult for all of us, but maybe we need to look again at what should be considered Adult activity.

Why are strip clubs ok on Moderate land? I can see Burlesque being classified as art, but burlesque dancers tend to keep on their g-strings. To my mind, a simple strip dance actually is intended to arouse sexual feelings, so this could be considered sexual nudity. Maybe strip clubs should be on Adult land? I think most of the ones I've been to in SL were on Adult land, though back in the day when they were more common, it was normal for them to be on Moderate land.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Why are strip clubs ok on Moderate land?

Because they are behind closed doors, and there is no "public sex" allowed - just nudity?

Strip clubs OK.

Sex clubs Not OK.

Just a theory.

 

[Persephone Emerald]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

Because they are behind closed doors, and there is no "public sex" allowed - just nudity?

Strip clubs OK.

Sex clubs Not OK.

Just a theory.

That makes sense. That's a sensible place to draw the line.

[Leslie Trihey]

To sum up my closing thoughts on this topic for anyone that may be interested as I will be taking at least a day's break in awhile as I've spent entirely to much time on the forum, and really should direct my attention to other things. Though I may participate in less controversial/combative threads.

 

Most of these rules are fine. Some are better then fine. The furniture rule is fantastic actually as it clear's up many concerns that people have had in the past.

 

The only rule I particularly have a problem with is the modesty layer. I view it as a major inconvenience to people and I feel that it doesn't accomplish anything that BOM undies wouldn't. I don't think it's really that enforceable either.

 

Thank you for reading, have a great whatever time it is in the world currently for you. 💖

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, Monika Skydancer said:

This is SL. A child avatar is an item of clothing. You can take it off & put on another one.

Really? How many other "items of clothing" in SL generate this many rules and angst? Or have legal ramifications?

Let's put this to the test.

If you ran across a child avatar in SL engaged in inappropriate sexual activity with an adult avatar, you'd be disgusted and upset, right? I can assure you that most people would be, even if you wouldn't.

Now, name an item of clothing or entire outfit that would generate the same disgust if you ran across someone having sex wearing it.

Can you think of any?

Child avis are an identity, not an item of clothing. Not an outfit. Everything we're doing here, all of the laws written against child p*rn, are predicated on that assumption. We wouldn't be having this discussion about anything else that you could put on or take off in SL.

[Leslie Trihey]

4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

If this platform has been around since about 2004, how did even "elder" millennials create / establish it?

Wow, that's confusing!

Elder millennials were born in the 80s. Millennial age range: 1981-1996.

[Vivienne Schell]

2 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I don't want to make things more difficult for all of us, but maybe we need to look again at what should be considered Adult activity.

Why are strip clubs ok on Moderate land? I can see Burlesque being classified as art, but burlesque dancers tend to keep on their g-strings. To my mind, a simple strip dance actually is intended to arouse sexual feelings, so this could be considered sexual nudity. Maybe strip clubs should be on Adult land? I think most of the ones I've been to in SL were on Adult land, though back in the day when they were more common, it was normal for them to be on Moderate land.

You make things difficult where they are not.

FAQ;

Q: I am a child avatar in SL. How do I shop for anything, when many of the popular stores for furniture, AOs, gestures, etc. have both regular and adult versions in their Moderate rated store?

A: As stated above, child avatars cannot engage or participate in the use of adult versions of such content. It may be best to create an outfit with a non-human or non-child human persona to run errands such as shopping, such as any of the default Second Life avatars, robots, et cetera.

Replace "Store" by "Burlesque" and "Strip Club" (both are legal on M) and you are there. Very simple.

[Theresa Tennyson]

30 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

But..hasn't that part of the equation always been the case? Nothing "changed" in that aspect, unless I am misunderstanding.

Poor, innocent child avatars don't want to see nasty, dirty, adult avatars naked.  I get it.  Weird, but I get it.

 

YOU. ARE. MISUNDERSTANDING.

The policy has been re-written so that child avatars can no longer be around naked adults. If it were just a roleplaying thing - yes, it would be ridiculous.

BUT IT'S NOT A ROLEPLAYING THING ANY MORE.