So what changed in the Terms of Service?

[Robberinthemuseum]

10 minutes ago, Wincil said:

Oh well I don't use that body type so.

Inithium! Kupra cups! And blood coming from nose and a head patter? Am i close? 😜 

 

Your type of avi is a lot of fun. So squishy and bouncy....more power to you 😘

Edited May 4 by Robberinthemuseum

[Miho Eton]

Just threatening to report me because I have a avatar with a "stylised" head feels like a personal attack they can report all they want. There's really nothing wrong with having that style.  

Edited May 4 by Wincil

[Leslie Trihey]

21 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

See your opinion of what a child avi is and mine are different. It's not a slippery slope. If I report your avatar because I think it's a child avi and you believe it clearly is not and are following the TOS, then don't worry about it.

Besides you won't even know who reported you. If I was going to report someone I certainly wouldn't tell them I was.  I'd just do it. 

Also, I have never, ever even seen an anime avatar in world so it's certainly not me you'll have to worry about reporting it.

Your opinion doesn't jive with reality. If I put the right make up layers on your avatar I could make your face very "childlike" as well. All it would take is a little of the right blush and a little nose contering layer and eye make up that puts emphasizes your eyes and makes them look bigger. Then suddenly bam, "childlike" face.

Edited May 4 by Leslie Trihey

[Robberinthemuseum]

Just now, Wincil said:

Just threatening to report me because I have a avatar with a "stylised" head feels like a personal attack.

They can report all they want. There's nothing wrong with having that style. It's a look. And I'm sure a lot of fun to rock 

[Starberry Passion]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Oh, and just in passing . . . can we please stop referring to a*eplay in SL as "pedophilia"?

Those who engage in this might or might not be "pedophiles" (I am not qualified to judge), but RPing a*eplay is no more actual pedophilia, than RPing "r*pe" is actual r*pe. It's a representation of it -- there are no actual children involved.

Almost no one here is going to equate BDSM roleplay with actual sexual violence -- why are some of us equating a*eplay with actual child abuse?

I don't say this to "excuse" a*eplay: it's awful, socially dangerous and harmful, and also (less importantly) not good for the platform.

But it's not the same thing.

Right. calling someone a pedo online for R.Ping with fictional 3D child presenting avatars does hurts actual victims of Real Life S.A. by turning them into fictional beings in comparison. It's like calling a child a cartoon. Children should never be compared to fictional beings and fictional beings shouldn't be given rights that a child or even an adult have irl.

I understand the outrage and age**** is looked down upon, community wise.

I'm not defending age**** in the slightest, either, but people are just slandering at this point.

[Alwin Alcott]

6 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Wow.

This really just isn't that complicated . . .

if all try to see it as a restoration of the Teen Grid it might be easier  ... it was taken down with the rules they should stay on G regions .. now the rule gets "only" a little tighter ; play a kid, stay there (on G/M )

I can't remember there was ever such uproar about the TG .. only when it got removed... many were shocked they would get access to the main grid.

[Raspberry Crystal]

I think it would help if the governance team made it clear if they are not composed of USA citizens with a mono-cultural outlook. If they are then I think we need to listen to those from other cultures who feel that their avatar choices are under threat. If someone has an avatar which is intended to be an adult, appears as an adult to others who share that culture, but not to western eyes then this policy is affecting people who are sticking to the rules, but are afraid their actions will be misinterpreted.
I was really concerned to read through reddit threads where asian women have been frightened to log on to SL because their avatar reflects their real-life height and shape.
I also think it would also help if the governance team demonstrated awareness in distinguishing between trans / non-binary avatars and child avatars.
There are communities of non rule breaking second life residents who are being badly affected by these policies and it doesn't do to ignore that.
Even if their fears are unjustified I think some extra consideration needs to be given.

[Alwin Alcott]

20 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

So, according to the new TOS, modesty layers cannot be flesh-toned and avatars are not allowed to wear any attachments or clothing layers meant to signify genitalia, however there's no mention of flesh-toned clothing in general.

I assume that's because LL don't want to have to produce a color chart illustrating the required hue, saturation and luminance value shifts necessary to comply with the TOS? Or maybe it's just that they can't be bothered to fix the environmental lighting issue that causes mesh clothing to drastically change color at different times of day?

I can only hope that, since LL have stated that child avatars are not allowed to be in the presence of nudity, they intend to ban all the mesh clothing that magically disappear once you move your camera a few meters away because the creator didn't create proper LOD models?!

let's start with them giving a guideline whát the requirements are for a child avatar ... before they get a zillion reports for all small avatar types .. if seeing some reports already take more as a week to get attention it won't get a lot better.
(and sometimes you don't even hear anything anymore ( technical issues))

[Alwin Alcott]

2 minutes ago, Raspberry Crystal said:

but not to western eyes ..

please ;  USA eyes .. those see things different as normal Western people.

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

3 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

let's start with them giving a guideline whát the requirements are for a child avatar ... before they get a zillion reports for all small avatar types .. if seeing some reports already take more as a week to get attention it won't get a lot better.
(and sometimes you don't even hear anything anymore ( technical issues))

At this point I'm starting to wonder if the recent TOS changes aren't just part of a massive stress test for a new A.I. governance system.  If this thread is any indication I really don't see how else they expect to keep up with the deluge of reports that they're going to receive.

[Coffee Pancake]

6 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

if all try to see it as a restoration of the Teen Grid it might be easier  ... it was taken down with the rules they should stay on G regions .. now the rule gets "only" a little tighter ; play a kid, stay there (on G/M ).....

A child's avatar and a child avatar are very different things.

The teen grid was for actual teens - that is, avatars operated by actual minors.

Child avatars represent minors but are almost exclusively operated by adults well over the age of 18.

 

 

As to who this all affects

All Child avatars have new hoops to jump though in order to keep playing, they want to follow the rules.

Adult avatars who are sometimes read as a child but aren't, get caught out and reported for breaking the new rules which don't apply to them (typically non conforming women, short people, femboys, Anime, etc etc).

It is unlikely to apply to any avatars operated by actual children.

 

There are no parallels with the teen grid. None of SL's child avatars would be allowed to go there.

 

 

 

 

[Coffee Pancake]

21 minutes ago, Raspberry Crystal said:

I think it would help if the governance team made it clear if they are not composed of USA citizens with a mono-cultural outlook. If they are then I think we need to listen to those from other cultures who feel that their avatar choices are under threat. If someone has an avatar which is intended to be an adult, appears as an adult to others who share that culture, but not to western eyes then this policy is affecting people who are sticking to the rules, but are afraid their actions will be misinterpreted.
I was really concerned to read through reddit threads where asian women have been frightened to log on to SL because their avatar reflects their real-life height and shape.
I also think it would also help if the governance team demonstrated awareness in distinguishing between trans / non-binary avatars and child avatars.
There are communities of non rule breaking second life residents who are being badly affected by these policies and it doesn't do to ignore that.
Even if their fears are unjustified I think some extra consideration needs to be given.

All of this.

 

[Istelathis]

8 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

At this point I'm starting to wonder if the recent TOS changes aren't just part of a massive stress test for a new A.I. governance system.  If this thread is any indication I really don't see how else they expect to keep up with the deluge of reports that they're going to receive.

I think you may be correct, to get to the bottom of this, I went to castaway cove and drilled the drenched captain.

As I came closer to the truth, it told me I was in violation... 

[Persephone Emerald]

8 hours ago, Leslie Trihey said:

Oh back in the day I was quite active in the Bible Study Discussion Meeting community. A community with some of the strictest rules for appearance on the grid. My Kemono variant's were good enough for them, never had a problem with my lagomorph, fox, nor human or other Kemono av variants.

Did you mean the Bible Discussion Study Meeting (BDSM) group?

[Leslie Trihey]

3 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Did you mean the Bible Discussion Study Meeting (BDSM) group?

No not any specific group.

[Starberry Passion]

26 minutes ago, Raspberry Crystal said:

I think it would help if the governance team made it clear if they are not composed of USA citizens with a mono-cultural outlook. If they are then I think we need to listen to those from other cultures who feel that their avatar choices are under threat. If someone has an avatar which is intended to be an adult, appears as an adult to others who share that culture, but not to western eyes then this policy is affecting people who are sticking to the rules, but are afraid their actions will be misinterpreted.
I was really concerned to read through reddit threads where asian women have been frightened to log on to SL because their avatar reflects their real-life height and shape.
I also think it would also help if the governance team demonstrated awareness in distinguishing between trans / non-binary avatars and child avatars.
There are communities of non rule breaking second life residents who are being badly affected by these policies and it doesn't do to ignore that.
Even if their fears are unjustified I think some extra consideration needs to be given.

Agreed and this is what makes it so hard to determine what is an adult avatar and what is an child avatar.

Creators have made child specific avatars meant to be a child, labeled as a child but then you have people coming out saying "well I can make a maitreya or a legacy or a reborn a child avatar." This just blurrs everything and make everything look like a child avatar, potentially. Someone might have one of these bodies, look Asian, look like a Doll, want to be pretty, have a cute face, have an e-girl asthetic, or a kawaii aesthetic and then turn around and be mistaken for a child when they say they are an adult. 

[Alwin Alcott]

13 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

There are no parallels with the teen grid. 

yes there are now.
Play underaged or be underaged is restricted in the places where they can go.

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

2 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

Agreed and this is what makes it so hard to determine what is an adult avatar and what is an child avatar.

It would be a lot easier to determine if it weren't for the clear divide between those who want realistic RL proportions for their avatars and those who prefer to adhere to SL standards.

The irony is that those "SL standards" were defined 20 years ago by a handful of egotistical males who started maxing out their shape sliders in attempt to assert dominance and display just how "alpha male" they were! 🙄

[stlshayne]

Diligently reading - I just have to ask - since it's been 1 day and we're on page 75... how long until this overtakes the  Pet Peves thread in pages?

[Daniel Regenbogen]

Best solution for LL: Have an AI monitor *all* conversation in open chat and IM! They really want to catch and fight pedos? That's the tool to do it. And it is very fair, it targets *all* residents. When some keywords are triggered, the AI will check the appearance of the involved residents.  I'm sure it will make those happy who say "Every little step to make it harder for those perverts is great.".

Hm, LL could bundle it with some social scoring. Someone helps a newbie? Give him some points. Someone runs an inworld charity? Give him some points. Someone encroaches a neighboring parcel with trees? Take away some points. If you have lots of points, you get some goodies. If you have a negative number, you get suspended for a day. China is doing that in RL, so why not try it out in SL?

[Alwin Alcott]

3 hours ago, Theresa Ravenheart said:

Engaging or participating in any event or location where nudity and/or sexual activity is present, encouraged and/or expected.

So any form of nudity is now adult content.

i think your conclusion is debatable, because we can read it in two ways ; 
if it's a combination of the two the word "and" wouldn't be there and just say "or".
With the word "and" is makes the activity required to be present, and the "or" confirms the activity as main reason.

this and the lack of information what they'r going to use to rule the violations only makes it a vague happening, not te mention the worries people get about possible different outcomes, just depending who's handling the appeal or report. ( what also was a point in the original cause of this)

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

2 minutes ago, Daniel Regenbogen said:

Best solution for LL: Have an AI monitor *all* conversation in open chat and IM! They really want to catch and fight pedos? That's the tool to do it. And it is very fair, it targets *all* residents. When some keywords are triggered, the AI will check the appearance of the involved residents.  I'm sure it will make those happy who say "Every little step to make it harder for those perverts is great.".

Hm, LL could bundle it with some social scoring. Someone helps a newbie? Give him some points. Someone runs an inworld charity? Give him some points. Someone encroaches a neighboring parcel with trees? Take away some points. If you have lots of points, you get some goodies. If you have a negative number, you get suspended for a day. China is doing that in RL, so why not try it out in SL?

Well a society in the midst of dystopian turmoil is more likely to accept an authoritarian alternative...

and now I'm wondering if LL didn't just sell us all to some foreign government to use as a litmus test! 😅

[Jaylinbridges]

20 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

The irony is that those "SL standards" were defined 20 years ago by a handful of egotistical males who started maxing out their shape sliders in attempt to assert dominance and display just how "alpha male" they were! 

Oh, you mean this guy:

He's modeling the new child avatar modesty underwear.  But he's got the BOM order mixed up, the underwear is supposed to be under his jeans.

Edited May 4 by Jaylinbridges

[Alwin Alcott]

4 minutes ago, Daniel Regenbogen said:

Best solution for LL: Have an AI monitor *all* conversation in open chat and IM! They really want to catch and fight pedos? That's the tool to do it.

like the things we get boxxy?... after every anwer the machine doesn't understand start again at 1?
sorry i don't understand... a.s.o

They only have to publish the full list of requirements, not the vague stuff we have untill now.
How on earth you can comply when you don't know what they see as bannable? ..their descretion?... wasn't that also a part of the initial cause?.. noticable differences in resident contacts?

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

So, according to the new TOS, modesty layers cannot be flesh-toned and avatars are not allowed to wear any attachments or clothing layers meant to signify genitalia, however there's no mention of flesh-toned clothing in general.

I assume that's because LL don't want to have to produce a color chart illustrating the required hue, saturation and luminance value shifts necessary to comply with the TOS? Or maybe it's just that they can't be bothered to fix the environmental lighting issue that causes mesh clothing to drastically change color at different times of day?

I can only hope that, since LL have stated that child avatars are not allowed to be in the presence of nudity, they intend to ban all the mesh clothing that magically disappear once you move your camera a few meters away because the creator didn't create proper LOD models?!

The road to Hell is paved with . . . PBR.