What is with the constant upgrades??

[Red52]

On 4/10/2024 at 10:12 AM, Resi Pfeffer said:

Its worth keeping the amount of open tabs in your internet browser to just a few, maybe even not using the browser at all for as long as you test the SL Viewer. 
Browsers like to eat up a lot of memory, especially when a lot of tabs are opened.

Hi Resi- not clear on this. My laptop has Windows 11 (for Home.) I put an SL or FS icon on my start screen and log in that way.  Isn't opening a viewer going through the Microsoft Edge browser (or Safari if I choose that)?

[Jaylinbridges]

4 hours ago, Red52 said:

Two questions: 1) I am always logged out of SL before I download a viewer, so not clear on what you mean by going to a low lag region to install?; 2) On point 5, you stated 'And relog FS to save these settings.'  Can you please explain how to do that?

You download the FS viewer before you can log in, or even install it on Windows.  I thought you said you could log into Firestorm but could not move.  In any  case, I would uninstall any copy of Firestorm you already have on Windows.  Then download it again and install it, but don't log in yet.  You need to Start at a quiet region.  I will look for one to suggest when I have more time. 

Ok either of the regions posted below are fine.  Start FireStorm and at the bottom box that says Start At, click down arrow key and highlight <Type region name> and  enter Voice Echo Canyon, or Tromp in the box.  Then Log In and let your inventory load and your avatar rez.  Depending on your inventory size, you should be able to move your avatar in 30 secs to 5 mins. Then open preferences and make the changes 1. to 5., say OK and log out again.  Log back in at your Home, and see if you can move.  

If you still have a problem you need to do a clean install of FS, and also check your Win11 installation, as @Nalates Urriah suggested above.

One of the changes in preferences will not take effect unless you log out of FS, and then log back in.  A relog.

I take it you are still doing fine using the SL Viewer?  

Edited April 12 by Jaylinbridges

[Ardy Lay]

Voice Echo Canyon

[Rowan Amore]

I always log in here for a quiet place...

https://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Tromp/128/128/0

[Nalates Urriah]

8 hours ago, Red52 said:

Hi Resi- not clear on this. My laptop has Windows 11 (for Home.) I put an SL or FS icon on my start screen and log in that way.  Isn't opening a viewer going through the Microsoft Edge browser (or Safari if I choose that)?

No. The Internet browser and SL viewer are separate, independent apps.

You can click a link in a browser and it will open a viewer and cause it to transfer you to the link's target location. But login is handled by the viewer.

If you are in the SL virtual world, not the websites, then you have logged in via a viewer. There is no other way. You have to run the viewer app to see the virtual world.

Inside the viewer you can use the built-in Internet browser or set the viewer to use your Windows' default Internet browser to open web pages from inside the viewer.

Edited April 12 by Nalates Urriah

[Rowan Amore]

12 hours ago, Red52 said:

Hi Resi- not clear on this. My laptop has Windows 11 (for Home.) I put an SL or FS icon on my start screen and log in that way.  Isn't opening a viewer going through the Microsoft Edge browser (or Safari if I choose that)?

Resi just meant don't be doing other things on your computer while you are running the SL viewer.  Having your normal internet browser open can use a lot of memory when you need it all for Second Life.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

Resi just meant don't be doing other things on your computer while you are running the SL viewer.  Having your normal internet browser open can use a lot of memory when you need it all for Second Life.

Agree! Plus though, no- you don't use the browser to launch SL after its installed!

14 hours ago, Red52 said:

Isn't opening a viewer going through the Microsoft Edge browser (or Safari if I choose that)?

 

[Red52]

17 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

You download the FS viewer before you can log in, or even install it on Windows.  I thought you said you could log into Firestorm but could not move.  In any  case, I would uninstall any copy of Firestorm you already have on Windows.  Then download it again and install it, but don't log in yet.  You need to Start at a quiet region.  I will look for one to suggest when I have more time. 

Ok either of the regions posted below are fine.  Start FireStorm and at the bottom box that says Start At, click down arrow key and highlight <Type region name> and  enter Voice Echo Canyon, or Tromp in the box.  Then Log In and let your inventory load and your avatar rez.  Depending on your inventory size, you should be able to move your avatar in 30 secs to 5 mins. Then open preferences and make the changes 1. to 5., say OK and log out again.  Log back in at your Home, and see if you can move.  

If you still have a problem you need to do a clean install of FS, and also check your Win11 installation, as @Nalates Urriah suggested above.

One of the changes in preferences will not take effect unless you log out of FS, and then log back in.  A relog.

I take it you are still doing fine using the SL Viewer?  

Ok, thanks!  I will follow your recommendations and use one of the low lag regions you mentioned, to log in.  Thanks for the clarification on relog.  No, not doing fine with the SL official viewer- constant crashing/ screen freezing.  I actually prefer FS- I used it for about 11 years with not many problems at all. Question- how big is too big on your Inventory?  I recall someone telling me a while ago that too many items in Inventory can cause lag problems.  I have been diligently working on clearing out and lowering Inventory items to get back to a manageable amount.

[Red52]

10 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

No. The Internet browser and SL viewer are separate, independent apps.

You can click a link in a browser and it will open a viewer and cause it to transfer you to the link's target location. But login is handled by the viewer.

If you are in the SL virtual world, not the websites, then you have logged in via a viewer. There is no other way. You have to run the viewer app to see the virtual world.

Inside the viewer you can use the built-in Internet browser or set the viewer to use your Windows' default Internet browser to open web pages from inside the viewer.

Okay- I understand you more now.  Thanks all, for the clarifications 🙂 

[Jaylinbridges]

18 hours ago, Red52 said:

No, not doing fine with the SL official viewer- constant crashing/ screen freezing.

Well,  SL Viewer has already set your performance to Low, to prevent freezing and crashing.  I am not sure what they have changed for memory management. 

This really points back to a problem with your hardware. Overheating, failing drives, or failing motherboard.  All hardware has a lifetime.  Just one single component on a motherboard that is failing, can cause all of your symptoms.  Filter capacitors are the most common, but bad solder joints, cracks in the board, a failing connector, micro corrosion, all can create problems.  And most software peeps have no idea how to diagnose much less fix these faults.  That's why a repair shop will just say, replace your laptop when they can't fix a hardware issue, which would cost more in labor and parts than a new computer.

Probably already suggested by someone here - but you need to put your SL and FS caches on a white list so every file written to your disk cache does not have to be checked by the anti--virus.  That can cause slowdowns and pauses in certain cases.  It's one of those "it can't hurt, even if it makes a small difference in performance" things.  80%(*) of SL users never white list their SL/FS viewer, and they are still here, so...

(*) a WA guess of course

 

Edited April 13 by Jaylinbridges

[SandorWren]

3 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Well,  SL Viewer has already set your performance to Low, to prevent freezing and crashing.  I am not sure what they have changed for memory management. 

This really points back to a problem with your hardware. Overheating, failing drives, or failing motherboard.  All hardware has a lifetime.  Just one single component on a motherboard that is failing, can cause all of your symptoms.  Filter capacitors are the most common, but bad solder joints, cracks in the board, a failing connector, micro corrosion, all can create problems.  And most software peeps have no idea how to diagnose much less fix these faults.  That's why a repair shop will just say, replace your laptop when they can't fix a hardware issue, which would cost more in labor and parts than a new computer.

Probably already suggested by someone here - but you need to put your SL and FS caches on a white list so every file written to your disk cache does not have to be checked by the anti--virus.  That can cause slowdowns and pauses in certain cases.  It's one of those "it can't hurt, even if it makes a small difference in performance" things.  80%(*) of SL users never white list their SL/FS viewer, and they are still here, so...

(*) a WA guess of course

 

I'm guessing the % of people who don't whitelist is closer to 99.9. I would never have thought to do that, and I'm a PC geek (too) !!! But I AM guessing as well.

 

[Nalates Urriah]

On 4/12/2024 at 9:57 AM, Red52 said:

Ok, thanks!  I will follow your recommendations and use one of the low lag regions you mentioned, to log in.  Thanks for the clarification on relog.  No, not doing fine with the SL official viewer- constant crashing/ screen freezing.  I actually prefer FS- I used it for about 11 years with not many problems at all. Question- how big is too big on your Inventory?  I recall someone telling me a while ago that too many items in Inventory can cause lag problems.  I have been diligently working on clearing out and lowering Inventory items to get back to a manageable amount.

Inventory size is unlimited. Folder size is sort of restricted by computer and connection speed to about 5,000 items. But you can have as many folders and sub-folders as you want to keep a folder's item count below 5k.

Lag is not caused by inventory size. A really large inventory, like 100K+ items, may cause an almost noticeable delay at login. And large inventory does use a bit more memory. But it is NOT a significant factor in running a viewer. Loading a single texture can use more memory than your inventory.

[Jaylinbridges]

13 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

A really large inventory, like 100K+ items, may cause an almost noticeable delay at login. And large inventory does use a bit more memory. But it is NOT a significant factor in running a viewer. Loading a single texture can use more memory than your inventory.

A large inventory should not cause lag in normal movement for FPS, and should not cause crashes.  But it will cause annoying delays when logging in, when opening the inventory window, and moving files within the inventory.

I have the perfect example, an account with a 220K inventory and not very flat  I inherited this account from someone who had never heard of making a subfolder, and rezzed a new box to dress every time from copy outfit boxes.  I been working on it for years, removing dups and making subfolders, but it is still a mess.

And the annoying part is the logging in time of about 1 min, 55 seconds.  This is an improvement over the 3 mins it used to take.  And once fully loaded, there is a 11 second delay every time you open the inventory window, thanks to the new texture preview that LL added.  I open and close my inventory window 100's of times/day - so waiting 11 secs while the system freezes completely is quite the pain.  I wish there was a way to turn off that texture preview, I never use it anyway.  I don't use the account often fortunately.   

My main account with 90K inventory takes 15 secs to log in and fully rez, and the the inventory window opening takes about 3 seconds.  Is still annoying.

 

Edited April 14 by Jaylinbridges
Used a stopwatch to measure login time, nearly 2 mins, still

[Red52]

On 4/13/2024 at 6:24 AM, Jaylinbridges said:

Well,  SL Viewer has already set your performance to Low, to prevent freezing and crashing.  I am not sure what they have changed for memory management. 

This really points back to a problem with your hardware. Overheating, failing drives, or failing motherboard.  All hardware has a lifetime.  Just one single component on a motherboard that is failing, can cause all of your symptoms.  Filter capacitors are the most common, but bad solder joints, cracks in the board, a failing connector, micro corrosion, all can create problems.  And most software peeps have no idea how to diagnose much less fix these faults.  That's why a repair shop will just say, replace your laptop when they can't fix a hardware issue, which would cost more in labor and parts than a new computer.

Probably already suggested by someone here - but you need to put your SL and FS caches on a white list so every file written to your disk cache does not have to be checked by the anti--virus.  That can cause slowdowns and pauses in certain cases.  It's one of those "it can't hurt, even if it makes a small difference in performance" things.  80%(*) of SL users never white list their SL/FS viewer, and they are still here, so...

(*) a WA guess of course

 

Can you explain 'white list' and how to put files on it please? Why is it important to put these caches on a white list?  If I were to invest in a new laptop, what specs would you recommend?  I have no idea what to look for now, since several members have pointed out that the specs that SL has posted are not sufficient 😞 Thank you!

[Red52]

On 4/13/2024 at 3:00 PM, Nalates Urriah said:

Inventory size is unlimited. Folder size is sort of restricted by computer and connection speed to about 5,000 items. But you can have as many folders and sub-folders as you want to keep a folder's item count below 5k.

Lag is not caused by inventory size. A really large inventory, like 100K+ items, may cause an almost noticeable delay at login. And large inventory does use a bit more memory. But it is NOT a significant factor in running a viewer. Loading a single texture can use more memory than your inventory.

Thanks for the info, Nalates! When you say 'folder size is sort of restricted by computer and connection speed,' why is that? Do you mean that only approximately 5,000 items will show in a folder at a time?  If there are more than 5K items in a folder, what happens to the rest of them? I do understand how to make folders/subfolders, and do use them. 

[Jaylinbridges]

22 minutes ago, Red52 said:

Can you explain 'white list' and how to put files on it please? Why is it important to put these caches on a white list?

Here is the Firestorm instructions for white listing FS on your antivirus.  I don't think LL has any instructions, since they don't recommend it is needed.  White listing your cache will not solve your issues at all.  It is right up there with clearing your cache for problem solving.

https://wiki.firestormviewer.org/antivirus_whitelisting?s[]=exclusions

[Perrie Juran]

5 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

I don't think LL has any instructions

Linden Lab's  instructions are pretty weak, they don't include any of the executables which need whitelisted separately as explained in Firestorms instructions. 

 

https://community.secondlife.com/knowledgebase/english/how-to-improve-viewer-performance-r601/#Section__1_3

 

Edited April 16 by Perrie Juran
coreected link

[Nalates Urriah]

20 hours ago, Red52 said:

Thanks for the info, Nalates! When you say 'folder size is sort of restricted by computer and connection speed,' why is that? Do you mean that only approximately 5,000 items will show in a folder at a time?  If there are more than 5K items in a folder, what happens to the rest of them? I do understand how to make folders/subfolders, and do use them. 

The problem is a timing issue. The process that loads the inventory list will time out if a folder takes too long to download. If it does time out, the assumption is the connection is inadequate and the connection aborts. It is then a matter of calling support to get inventory rearranged. Meaning they divide folders with ~5k+ items into smaller groupings.

I say sort of restricted because it isn't the Lab limiting us but physics. Also, the number varies based on your computer and connection speed.

When you get logged in all your inventory will be there.