Courtney Sinister Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 You see it all the time, some people won't share rl, others say that is silly. Some ask rl questions on meeting, others resent it. Still others wonder what the fuss is about.I'm convinced it is because there are 2 archetypes of sl use, and many shades in-between. I call my way of measuring this the "Immersion Scale."Imagine a line with numbers along it. At one end is the number 1, at the other, 10.1---2---3---4---5---6--7---8---9---10Pure ones would use sl only as a social network. Their avatars are not "them" in any sense, even in a pretend one. They are merely placeholders for their rl selves. Ones don't roleplay, are free with rl info, voice often, and expect contact with sl friends outside of sl. They often think those near the other end are "fake" and have no rl.Pure tens use sl as a "second life" and immerse themselves in it. They are almost always "in character." They resent being asked about rl, "become" what may be a VERY different sl self when in-world, and may seldom voice. They think ones on the line lack imagination and do not understand the wonder of sl.Most are somewhere in-between. Some are one type in one area of sl, and other types in other areas. For example, at a beach you might be just saying hello and asking where people are from and their age, then you might go to a club, wherfe you dance as your immersed self, but with frequent breaks from that into rl information about what you are doing or how your friend's work day went. Later still, the same sl user might go to a roleplay sim and totally immerse in their rl self.Nevertheless, I find I can usually find a useful spot on the line for people I know, and it helps me understand them and how they feel about sl issues.I'm a 7. What are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Ahren Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I guess I'm about an 8. Don't really like to talk about RL, but it creeps in. What do you say if someone asks you where you're from as a conversation starter and you don't want to say? Third planet out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtney Sinister Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 If it is asked within the first few lines of my first conversation with someone, I respond to the question "Where are you from?" with the answer, "My partner and I have a place on _____ Island." That will either stop further rl questions, get them to ask again while allowing the issue to be addriessed, show their complete lack of geographic sense, or scare them off totally. I really don't mind the question under the right circumstanses, but it seems to me that asking age and location in the first minutes of talking is ignoring the potential of sl--unless you are one of those social network users. Just to be clear, I'm not saying one way is better than another, though I certainly have my preferance. I also fear very much that the Lindens are favoring the ones on the scale these days to the point where I wonder if they even know we 6-10's exist (and do most of the shopping). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peggy Paperdoll Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Why is that we get these threads periodically (several times a year at least). To me it's just another survey.........and I treat them very much the same way. It's "pidgeon holing" users. And I don't believe you can pidgeon hole any user of SL. Any one of us (probably all of us) will fall on different numbers on your "Immersion Scale" depending on what is specifically asked........an average can't even be arrived at because there are so many different things everyone does all the time. Then there are the people who disagree that "Immersion" even relevant. So where do I fall on your scale? Would that be 0 or 10? Or somewhere in between? You tell me because I could never answer accurately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtney Sinister Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 It was not primarily meant to be a survey, but a way to discuss a real issue. There is a fair amount of conflict going on out there around what sl is and what it should be. I thought this might help people talk about it. Every day I see sl being pushed toward being a social network. Every day I hear arrogant asses saying "It isn't real!" "You can't really touch!" It has certainly gotten more that way since I started in 2007. Your comments about how people don't fit one number on the scale seem to eerily echo my coments when I said the exact same thing. You could have just used cut and paste in fact. No one is trying to pin you down. I based this roughly on the Kinsey scale, which is also not meant to be something that identifies a set permanant number for everyone, but which has turned out to be a very useful tool for discussing sexuality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deltango Vale Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Hmmm, I guess I'm probably an 8 as well. Where I might change the interpretation is to say that SL is a different country. I am basically myself, but I enjoy living in two countries: SL and RL. Needless to say, SL is a much more free and tolerant country than any other I know on Earth. If SL were a real country, I'd move there in a second and never return to the boring old world of priests, politicians and all the other griefers that make RL so unpleasant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Ahren Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Yes, but the sex isn't nearly as good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayalily Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 That's funny because "where are you from" is usually the question I get asked first. I don't mind answering at all because I'm not looking to hook up with any avatar. I'm here to chit chat about this and that and even included politics if it comes up, tho in RL I have no trust in politicians whatsoever. I like to talk about music, that's why I'm here. Yes I know I could go to youtube or just listen to the radio, but it's that experience of everyone listening to a great song at the same time in the moment and enjoying that in the moment experience is what makes SL great to me. Also, sharing a song with a friend who you think might like a certain song they have never heard that's a fun experience. SL can offer some great musical experiences for music lovers the world over. However, the local chat is what is roll on the floor funny. I prefer local chat over IM anyday. IM's are not terribly funny, but local chat is great fun. I sometimes play a character in local chat. A dumb blonde. lol My number, oh maybe 5. Neutral like Switzerland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peggy Paperdoll Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 You just proved, at least, one point about the way I feel about all this "oh so important" discussion we all must have for SL be what we want it to be (whatever that is). "Every day I hear arrogant asses saying "It isn't real!" "You can't really touch!"" kind of says it all. Am I an arrogant ass because I don't fit in one of your pidgeon holes? Or am an arrogant ass because I concider SL immersive? What if I think SL is just a hobby to indulge in when I have time? What if I only want to visit Live Music events just because I'm tired of the CD's or MP3's I have and want something new? What you think SL is (or should be) is fine..........and everyone has opinions on that. Everyone makes SL what is best for them. It seems that there is a fair number of others who take exception to that way of thinking and decide it's "important" to discuss it so that everyone gets in line. Fits one of those pidgeon holes. Sexuality? Is that the motive? Kinsey Report? Get real. SL is not some sex site. It's not some social network site. It's not some business platform. It's not some game. It's a little of all of the above (plus more that I didn't list). It's designed that way on purpose.........why is everyone trying to change it? LL is pushing the social network aspect because that aspect is present in SL.........it's a market LL would love to get into (LL is a for profit business after all). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I don't RP, and I consider privacy paramount. So that gives me no spot on that scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtney Sinister Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 Randall, I think your use of sl is a great one. As far as people who don't like to be asked about location, it isn't anything about wanting to "hook up" or not, in the case I'm talking about it is because many sl users want to relate to other users as residents of sl, not of rl and don't want to be immediately indentified as their rl selves. It is sort of tossing the illusion out the window from the start. Most immersive people I know don't mind sharing location a little later in their discussions with a person, I realize users like you don't feel that way, and that is just as legitimate. It is exactly that disconnect between how different people use and think of sl I think we have to be able to talk about if we want to keep sl great for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squashy Beeswing Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I don't know. It's really difficult for me even to give a number. At first i was gonner say '4' due to the fact that i seldom mind sharing RL stuff and usually volunteer it. But i don't expect or ask for the same back; it's not a big deal to me. I have a few friends here whom i know purely on an immersionist level and i can honestly say i don't care who's behind the av. If you present as, say, a child, in SL, then that is how i'll treat you, no questions asked. Although i don't RP here, i have my 2 homes and i breed my kittycats, and enjoy various things here, not confined to spending time with my SL partner (RL details exchanged, but he'd likely have become my SL partner, regardless). That sounds fairly immersionist to me. So where do i fall on the scale? Now that i've written all that out, i'm going to go for a '6' or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtney Sinister Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 Peggy, I am convinced you have either not read my posts or are unable to understand them. Insulting how someone views sl is arrogant for very clear reasons, and that is what I am pointing out. Rather than me telling them they need to get in line I am conplaining that they are telling others to get in line. Please tell me what line I am asking people to join? I have clearly stated that all uses are legitimate. If you can't understand that basing the use of a line for mesaring such differences on the Kinsey scale (which is about sexuality) has nothing to do with sexuality in this context, nothing I can write here can help you. But you may have a point, most troubles may not come from differences in how we use sl, it may be that some people are just jerks like you who will attack everyone and everything without bothering to read it well enough to be able to actually know what was said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtney Sinister Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 Pussycat, I think I did a bad job with my descriptions of the type. they were meant to show levels of immersion in sl, not openness about rl necessarily. I guess a good way to say it may be that the archetype Ones are always their rl self in their own mind in sl, Archetype Tens are always their sl self in their own mind in sl, and all the real people are somewhere in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squashy Beeswing Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Peggy Paperdoll wrote: Why is that we get these threads periodically (several times a year at least). To me it's just another survey.........and I treat them very much the same way. It's "pidgeon holing" users. And I don't believe you can pidgeon hole any user of SL. Any one of us (probably all of us) will fall on different numbers on your "Immersion Scale" depending on what is specifically asked........an average can't even be arrived at because there are so many different things everyone does all the time. Then there are the people who disagree that "Immersion" even relevant. So where do I fall on your scale? Would that be 0 or 10? Or somewhere in between? You tell me because I could never answer accurately. Why not have this topic again? New people are joining the forums all the time. They're not dinosaurs of 3000+ posts who've heard it all before. Yes, we all use SL in different ways. I didn't read the OP as an attempt to pigeon hole anyone, but rather as an attempt to generate discussion. Just move along if you're tired of this subject. No-one's forcing you to join in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peggy Paperdoll Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I know no one is forcing me to join in..........but think how boring it would be for everyone to just give a number and agreed with everyone else? One can have a conversation with themselves and have just as much fun. Oh and that 3000+ post? That ain't the half of it. I guess you don't remember the old RA forums..........I had more over there I'm active in forums.........sometimes I'm pleasant, sometimes I'm not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 i think there are a lot that don't like to give out information because it's the internet..not a very safe place.. immersion may be some of the reasons..but security is surely in there somewhere as well.. i know i am always keeping in my mind..why is this person so curious about me? so i don't just hand it over as a first response to their question..they are going to have to try a little harder than..where you from ? on the first opening line of meeting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peggy Paperdoll Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Let me quote you in it's entirity: ---------------------------------------------------------- It was not primarily meant to be a survey, but a way to discuss a real issue. There is a fair amount of conflict going on out there around what sl is and what it should be. I thought this might help people talk about it. Every day I see sl being pushed toward being a social network. Every day I hear arrogant asses saying "It isn't real!" "You can't really touch!" It has certainly gotten more that way since I started in 2007. Your comments about how people don't fit one number on the scale seem to eerily echo my coments when I said the exact same thing. You could have just used cut and paste in fact. No one is trying to pin you down. I based this roughly on the Kinsey scale, which is also not meant to be something that identifies a set permanant number for everyone, but which has turned out to be a very useful tool for discussing sexuality. ------------------------------------------------------------- That set the tone (though it's pretty much as I suspected from the very first post in your thread). If someone disagrees, then they are "arrogant asses". You said it, not me. Then you go off on some fantasy that you "based this" on........talk about arrogance. :matte-motes-big-grin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtney Sinister Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 Peggy, thanks for the reminder, forums are full of cranks and trolls. You fit the role well. I see nothing in your post worth adressing, so I'll stop responding and hope some find it interesting at least, if not helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peggy Paperdoll Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Go ahead and admit it............you had fun for those few posts, didn't you? You got to expound all that "insight" you have. You got to call me a troll. You got to (indirectly) call me an "arrogant ass". You're welcome for all the fun you had. :matte-motes-big-grin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Pussycat Catnap wrote: I don't RP, and I consider privacy paramount. So that gives me no spot on that scale. i have to agree with this.. i mean why would i look at strangers in SL any differently than i would strangers on yahoo or aim or any chat client? when i see someone giving me crap because i won't send them an rl image of myself..i start thinking yahoo perve wanting to build up to a cam to cam fap.. just because there are 3d charactors in this program..it doesn't change what it really is..a yahoo with a lot of extra interactive things to do.. that can put people in a false sense of security that they are in something safer than a yahoo when they are not.. so much so that fap is considered actually having sex hehehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void Singer Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 too narrow, my values depend on the situation and context. I have IMO a fair bit of personal information in my profile... but I rarely talk RL with anyone except close friends... if I'm in and RP situation I don't at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrius Gothly Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Hmm .. Your interpretation of Courtney's "examples" is a bit biased I think Peggy. What I heard from them is "if you believe your way is the ONLY way then you are an arrogant ass". It may just be my own bias that allows me to hear it that way, but after reading Courtney's replies ... I don't think so. @Courtney - I'm a 1-10+4. That means I can readily interact with, socialize with and immerse with people from every number on the scale, but my personal preference for myself is closer to a 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrius Gothly Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Ceka Cianci wrote: so much so that fap is considered actually having sex hehehehe Heyyyy ... My hand is now highly offended that you don't consider the "magic" we share together as sex. *harumph* *GRIN* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow Danube Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Wow... not sure where I fall in. Maybe you can tell me in which scale I am. - I do not like telling people about my location or what I do - I have no problem telling people my age, it's in my profile - I have no problem telling people I like where I am from and what I do - I don't RP much, I'm already pretending in SL .. I'm just not sure if I can be pretending to be pretending in a pretentious world - I talk RL to people who likes to talk about RL. Recent riot in Canada was such a good discussion to make fun with. - Too much information is a turn off, unless I'm interested in that person - Too little information is a turn off, if I'm romantically interested in that person - I make friends easily, I get close to them pretty easily too. How I treat them as friends is depending on how they see SL is - People who treats SL as his/her RL, I'll respect that. I will also be very careful not to hurt them and be as honest as I can - People who treats SL as his/her fantasy, I'll fantasize with them too. Unfortunately, this type of people never last long as a friend in my list. You see, I have short fantasy span... If they are no longer enhancing my SL experience or is a Drainer or becoming too real, I will remove them from my list and will have no regrets about it. It was just a fantasy afterall, nothing was real including that person's feelings. - I use SL as recreation but I am open to all possibilities... within a limit. I have many limits. - SL is just another game - SL is not just another game So, who and what am I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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