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Crubo Carver

Slat and Qavimator - do they mix?

17 posts in this topic

Qavimator has been my primary tool since I came to SL but, as we all know, it has major limitations, such as inability to select multiple frames, inability to confine an operation to an axis, etc.

For that reason I spent many hours learning slat, an old open-source tool. I consulted the tool's help sections and Medhue's tutorials until I could use it, and it does certain things FAR faster and easier than Qavimator.

However, I just encountered what seems to be a major glitch, and wondering if anyone else has seen it. I like to create the basic pose sequence in Qavimator, then pull the bvh into slat for extreme time-savers like one-axis blending, multiple frame insertion, etc.

However, I have discovered that when I import a Q-created bvh into slat, NO hip translation data (that is, all x y z positioning - not rotation) is imported. I have to zero the y axis completely because Q creates at y=41. The av completes all the movments - but with no lateral or vertical position changes.

So why not just code translation in slat? Because it has no floor mesh, but uses a system of inserted markers that I find very hard to use for fine-tuning position. For a simple horizontal or vertical motion that's fine, but for subtle stuff like walks, where you shift the hips to match phases light weight transfer, it's very hard to use.

If I import slat into Qavimator, any slat-made translation is lost and a y-position=zero puts the av waist-deep in the floor. This is even worse because the only correction is a y-axis adjustment one keyframe at a time.

Am I missing some import step? Or am I doomed to yet another set of laborious workarounds made necessary by LL's lack of interest in animation tool support? I know this is lengthy and technical but hey, it's an animation forum!! Thanks!!

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I have heard some like bvh hacker because it lets you basically...well, 'hack' the bvh specifics and fix things for SL and other applications. This might somehow work out to help you convert stuff over. But I don't know though.

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Of course, I use slat all the time, and I go back and forth, occasionally between slat and qavi, just for mirroing and optimization. I've never seen the issue you are speaking of. Then again tho, I don't use the latest slat version, I use a beta 5 version. If you want it, just IM me with your email.

I've brought the same animation into Poser, slat, and qavi. The only issue that I've ever seen, is if I just make an animation in slat, and then bring it into Poser, the torso is flipped, but if I optimize it in qavi, that will fix the torso. Other than that, I've never had an issue.

Do you have the same issue with avatar positioning when you create the animation first in slat, then bring it into Qavi, cause that is how It would normally happen with me?

Beside just being a super fast bvh editor to make animations, I think SLat is far superior to all other animation programs because you do most of your editing in the part graphs, where you can see all the curves that the part makes. This also allows you to make much smoother animations than in something like Qavimator. Poser has a built in smoothing thing that automatically makes all your curves rounded, but there are times when you do not want this. Plus, poser is a pain in the ash.

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I totally agree about slat, and it's YOU Medhue who brought slat to my attention. The more I learn how to use it the better it gets - the multiple-frame insertion, blending, individual axis selection - incredibly useful and fast compared to Qav, which eats hours and hours - if I knew diddly about coding I would try to update slat, it is so awesome.

I have tried the reverse anim-export-import - bringing a slat hip-y-axis-zero anim into qavimator and the av is sunk thru the Q floor. The key reason I did that in the first place is the floor in Q is so useful for walks - do you find the slat marker feature comparable to a grid floor, which slat lacks?

Q defaults at a y setting of 41, do you think that's it?

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Friday Siamendes wrote:

I have tried the reverse anim-export-import - bringing a slat hip-y-axis-zero anim into qavimator and the av is sunk thru the Q floor. The key reason I did that in the first place is the floor in Q is so useful for walks - do you find the slat marker feature comparable to a grid floor, which slat lacks?

It is not the most perfect way to reference the ground, but after using it all these years, I don't really have an issue with just using the markers. Use the Tframe to line things up, you know that all the angles are perfect with that frame.

 

Q defaults at a y setting of 41, do you think that's it?


Yep, or something in that range.

 

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Medhue, I just watched your two SLat vid tuts- thank you for those btw - I hadn't heard of the program before and am seeing may be a way to answer myown question here re inserting frames in QA.  One little question and not really a derail to this thread since I will be trying my QA anims in SLat - can one "Add" a second figure into SLat also and if so how?

Thanks!

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Amaranthim Talon wrote:

 can one "Add" a second figure into SLat also and if so how?

Thanks!

I have never used it, but I think you can. If you click Display, at the top, there are options to view the blue set and red set. I think red is the default set that is shown. I have no idea if it works or how, as I have never used it. I don't do alot of couples type of stuff, but when I do, I just make the animations individually and then bring them into SL, and adjust them from there, reuploading fixes. Yeah, I know it is waisting lindens, but I'm usually working on something and the workflow just seems to be faster for me.

 

 

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Thank you - I will try that out. I find it is helpful though to have both avatars able to interact so that you can place the limbs in way they don't intersect impossibly . You can of course adjust pose balls and sits later but if they are very close together it is disconcerting to see hands and arms peeking thru someone's body! Eep!!

So QA is handy in that- however, which takes me back to my thread I posted- if I find I need to lengthen a sequence I cannot insert frames - argh -

So - OK I wil give the red blue a shot. Thank you again for input.

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If you figure out ways to do this with the red and blues in slat please post - i find it hard to position avs in slat without a floor grid. 

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I have no idea of this is possible, but I wonder if you can creat the start positions in Qavi, and then bring those into Slat.

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I wanted to add that yes I was able to insert a second figure by adding hmm- I don't recall now if it says add blue? But it was as Medhue suggest - brilliant guy btw , ty ty Medhue!

Mind, I have not delved deeply yet in SLat- mostly because while I admit that QA has large limitations, it is so inutitive! I really didn't need to learn much to get started on it. It was easy- grab the manequin's limb and move it- voila! Ye, the refinements and inofrmation u need to really make good anims I have had to sweat at, but like with all "arts" you grow into it.  I  am afraid SLat isn't very self explanatory to me. In fact, Medhue, you stated in one of these two threads something about how the camera function was so much easier for you on SLat - I'm afraid it has me quite stummped! I keep trying to do cam things like we do in-world, like it works in Blender, like it works in QA - and I do not achieve the same viewing results. I realize I will need to devote sometime to it in order to get in the learning curve, I just keep 'ooh shiny!'ing" .

Anyway, thanks everyone contributing to these threads- just reading everyones animation adventures and advice is super instructional and am learning a lot.

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There is a little diagram that I threw together for some1 else. It's already here in my photos for the forums, so I'll just post it here too. I remind every1 that I use a beta 5 version of SLat and you can contact me inworld for me to send that version to you. All my edits/explainations are in RED.

Slat-Diagram.jpg

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It took me awhile to understand slat and get used to it. Totally worth the effort! I was sticking to Qavimator too, out of habit and that feeling that it's more intuitive, but slat does so many super-useful things.

I have several pages of systematic notes that I assembled and I would be glad to share them if you if you PM me. 

Also go thru the help notes in slat topic by topic, and once you have some familiarity with the tool, watch Medhue's youtube tutorials, very helpful.

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Just wanted to point out for any past or future contributors to this discussion that 1007_beta_5b is, in fact, available for download at the project's Sourceforge page. :)

Go to http://sourceforge.net/projects/free-bvh-editor and navigate to "beta release (winXP only)", inside which you'll find all the beta 1007 versions for download. Just grabbed it myself!

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Oki so i have gotten what i want made in Slat but now i am floating. i have tried adjusting the penvis y down but it still shows up when i upload the anim that i am floating. Help please

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Justa small update... i did find the hip translation ad usedthe y to put it down bt still haivn the same issue. In the Poses Menu i do not hav checked Zero Hip Y Translations or 0 Hip Rotations. Would really love to get this ground sit thast been stuck in my head all weekend made. Thanks in advance.

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