Ban lines - a proposal

[AmeliaJ08]

I'm not really sure where to put this so settled on General Discussion, admins please move if you think it's better placed elsewhere.

I was thinking about banlines yesterday. It seems to me that banlines are probably the best way of keeping SL land secure/access only - they only extend approx 100M 50M into the air too, ideal for ground level properties etc.

Unfortunately they've got a bad reputation for a simple reason: they're ugly. People don't like to see them. Given this I wanted to ask: why are they even visible by default?

It seems to be if banlines were invisible (and you would still bounce off them/receive a notification window saying you're not allowed access to the parcel) they would be a lot more tolerable and just better than they are. People are using security orbs to replace banline functionality in areas where banlines are restricted due to the visual impact. They also use security orbs to protect airspace above parcels too of course (unfortunately) but for those who aren't the security orb with all of its various disadvantages like annoying pilots, adding script load etc. could be replaced by banlines if they were only invisible.

I just think more wide use of them might make SL a little more user friendly for everybody, vehicles etc merely bounce off banlines for example.

How do other people feel about this?

 

Edited August 10, 2023 by AmeliaJ08
correction

[Orwar]

1 minute ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

How do other people feel about this?

   Absolutely not. If anything, ban lines should be replaced by solid brick walls so that you stand the slightest chance of avoiding them rather than the yellow stripes appearing half a second before you run into them. They also should have no place on mainland, at all, ever - especially those that yank over the main routes. Between that and how those roads constantly run through region corners it's almost as if LL don't actually want people to explore the grid.

   There are much better systems to keep your home private without creating a hazard that actively make people leave SL in frustration to seek vehicular adventures elsewhere.

[Gabriele Graves]

I think it is a personal preference and there is a viewer setting to change that preference.

Also just a small correction.  General Banlines go to 50m above the terrain.

[Persephone Emerald]

If one is standing or walking, ban lines seem to be an unnecessary and ugly distraction, but if one is driving, flying or sailing, then they're a necessary warning. It's impossible to make a security system that's perfect for everyone, because everyone uses SL differently. 

[AmeliaJ08]

10 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

I think it is a personal preference and there is a viewer setting to change that preference.

Also just a small correction.  General Banlines go to 50m above the terrain.

Oh for sure but the default is to display them and they are very ugly. Correction noted

[Gabriele Graves]

2 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

If one is standing or walking, ban lines seem to be an unnecessary and ugly distraction, but if one is driving, flying or sailing, then they're a necessary warning. It's impossible to make a security system that's perfect for everyone, because everyone uses SL differently. 

...and for the same person at different times even.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Gabriele Graves

[Eowyn Southmoor]

Vehicles do not just "bounce off" banlines. Undoubtably some might, but certainly many do not, so I wouldn't be making such a broad sweeping statement.

And yes, banlines are ugly as hell, but i'd much rather see them when i am driving - at least then i can avoid them 

[Gabriele Graves]

1 minute ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

Oh for sure but the default is to display them and they are very ugly. Correction noted

My pleasure I don't mind what the default is though there is probably a danger new people may not understand why they cannot cross into some spaces if they are off by default.

[AmeliaJ08]

14 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   Absolutely not. If anything, ban lines should be replaced by solid brick walls so that you stand the slightest chance of avoiding them rather than the yellow stripes appearing half a second before you run into them. They also should have no place on mainland, at all, ever - especially those that yank over the main routes. Between that and how those roads constantly run through region corners it's almost as if LL don't actually want people to explore the grid.

   There are much better systems to keep your home private without creating a hazard that actively make people leave SL in frustration to seek vehicular adventures elsewhere.

Interesting. I do explore mainland and I have far more issues with security orbs than I do banlines, I just hate how they look and many private estates even restrict them because of the look.

 

[AmeliaJ08]

1 minute ago, Gabriele Graves said:

My pleasure I don't mind what the default is though there is probably a danger new people may not understand why they cannot cross into some spaces if they are off by default.

I was thinking a notification would be better, you do sometimes see it "you do not have access to this parcel" if you somehow get beyond a ban line by a little.

 

[AmeliaJ08]

3 minutes ago, Eowyn Southmoor said:

Vehicles do not just "bounce off" banlines. Undoubtably some might, but certainly many do not, so I wouldn't be making such a broad sweeping statement.

And yes, banlines are ugly as hell, but i'd much rather see them when i am driving - at least then i can avoid them 

It is my experience for the most part, I didn't intend to speak for everyone. I can count on one hand the number of times a banline has ruined a driving or flying experience for me but not enough fingers for security orbs.

 

[Eowyn Southmoor]

Ive only run into one banline this year in all my driving, and in the vehicle i was using, it was a simple matter of editing it back to the road, resitting in it, then I could continue on my way.  in general, both banlines and orbs rarely effect my vehicle travel, but regardless I just thought i'd mention cars getting stuck in them because for many people that seems to be the case.

[AmeliaJ08]

I freely admit I do a lot more flying than I do driving since I find region crossings far more tolerable in a helicopter or plane than in a car! I'd love to drive around mainland more but... it's so often a frustrating experience crossing region borders by road. May be just my cars though.

Banlines by air aren't so much of a big deal which might explain my greater tolerance for them, you're rarely flying low enough to hit them.

 

 

[Orwar]

13 minutes ago, Eowyn Southmoor said:

Vehicles do not just "bounce off" banlines. Undoubtably some might, but certainly many do not, so I wouldn't be making such a broad sweeping statement.

   I wish banlines did that, rather than unseating you and deleting your vehicle, or even tossing you straight home. I have no idea why the results are so varied (is it the vehicle script? Or that you sometimes pass through the banline before it reacts? Who knows!). 

18 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

Interesting. I do explore mainland and I have far more issues with security orbs than I do banlines, I just hate how they look and many private estates even restrict them because of the look.

   There are tons of orbs that look like mundane everyday objects that don't stand out. And I'd much rather get a pop-up telling me I have 15 seconds to vacate the parcel than "WHAM - you're back home and your vehicle is gone". Sure, orbs that are set to give you no time or 1-2 seconds are just as bad, but I can find no rational reason as to why that part which works fine for the Belliseria covenant shouldn't work on mainland in general. If you absolutely want total privacy then go get a private region.

[Persephone Emerald]

I usually travel by flying or walking, just as my avatar, so I appreciate being able to see and avoid ban lines, rather than getting sent home by a 0 second security orb. If I do get sent home by such in Belliserria, I immediately teleport back and report the offender.

[Gabriele Graves]

25 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

I was thinking a notification would be better, you do sometimes see it "you do not have access to this parcel" if you somehow get beyond a ban line by a little.

 

I think a lot of people would miss a notification though.  Heck I miss notifications when I'm just standing around and not in any vehicle.

[Gabriele Graves]

I definitely prefer to see them.  You don't tend to see them until it's too late in a lot of circumstances either, so the visual aspect doesn't bother me.  If anything I'd like to see all the banlines in a region I've entered if they are in view, at least on the mini map if nothing else but as was explained in the past, LL changed how it works so the server only send that information now when you get close to them.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

What is this mainland you speak of? 

But no really, I agree - banlines are ugly, especially when they're scattered around on scenic islands. I'm a sky dweller these days, though, so on/off by default doesn't really matter to me in particular.

Would be fun if you could choose your banline style, though. Have it pop a big gif up when you get too close to someone's property.

[AmeliaJ08]

Could a lot of these issues mentioned by people above maybe be improved with simulator code? I can understand how a person may find themselves inside a ban lined parcel if a simulator is lagging, the cleanest way of handling that situation would be to move the person back to their last known 'good' location but if scripts etc are falling apart then who knows.

I'm probably asking far too many questions

 

[Orwar]

Just now, Ayashe Ninetails said:

What is this mainland you speak of? 

   Those. Plus Belli. 

   As opposed to private regions, that are just scattered around the edges of the grid without being connected.

[AmeliaJ08]

1 minute ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

What is this mainland you speak of? 

But no really, I agree - banlines are ugly, especially when they're scattered around on scenic islands. I'm a sky dweller these days, though, so on/off by default doesn't really matter to me in particular.

Would be fun if you could choose your banline style, though. Have it pop a big gif up when you get too close to someone's property.

That is a good point. Maybe invisible banlines could be a per-estate setting? or maybe have the option of both in all cases but covenant could restrict use of either.

Would reduce script load caused by security orbs in residential estates for sure since they're very often against covenant due to the appearance.

 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

2 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   Those. Plus Belli. 

   As opposed to private regions, that are just scattered around the edges of the grid without being connected.

I knowwww, silly. I was being a goofball. I only ever venture to mainland when a store I want to go to is unfortunately plopped on it. I can usually tell by the clutter on the map where I'm headed. I wasn't aware of the names, though, so thanks for that in any case! 😄

 

4 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

That is a good point. Maybe invisible banlines could be a per-estate setting? or maybe have the option of both in all cases but covenant could restrict use of either.

Would reduce script load caused by security orbs in residential estates for sure since they're very often against covenant due to the appearance.

Oh, I meant an individual setting for the traveler so they can customize what they see instead of the ugly yellow lines, but now that you mention it, customization settings for the landowners might be kind of fun, too.

[Sid Nagy]

The ban lines and orbs are there, have a long history and protective people seem to need them to 'secure' their Second Life.
There are probably as much people who love them as there are people who despise them. Nothing will change anytime soon.
I'm in the group of use them as sparsely as possible or dump them altogether, but we will have to live with them, I guess.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Sid Nagy
English, what else?

[Orwar]

1 minute ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

I knowwww, silly. I was being a goofball.

   I kneeew that, silly. I was just feeling unusually philanthropic and figured I'd drop the map there for those who don't. 

   I'm the other way around though, the only times I go to private regions is when there's a store on it (or, very rarely, clubs or photo regions), but 98% of the time I spend in SL is living on and exploring the grid. 

[Gabriele Graves]

14 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

Could a lot of these issues mentioned by people above maybe be improved with simulator code? I can understand how a person may find themselves inside a ban lined parcel if a simulator is lagging, the cleanest way of handling that situation would be to move the person back to their last known 'good' location but if scripts etc are falling apart then who knows.

I'm probably asking far too many questions

 

It may appear like the person has entered the parcel because the viewer extrapolates heading and velocity but when the region starts to respond the viewer will actually snap the agent back to the last position it knew about before it would enter the parcel.  So as far as the region is concerned you never entered that parcel and the viewer will correct itself eventually.