Introducing Senra Avatars... what do you think?

[Lewis Luminos]

49 minutes ago, Conifer Dada said:

Thanks 🙂  Even if that's true I still carry the shortcomings of all system avatars. 

What I was trying to say is that many people choose to give their avatars exaggerated proportions and the Senra avs wouldn't look out of place among those.

 

Those exaggerated proportions are user-choice though. You can affect those with the sliders.

What I'm seeing in Senra is things like stupidly thin arms regardless of how high you raise the sliders (to be fair, Belleza Gen-X is guilty of this too). Lips and eyes that look dreadfully un-natural, regardless of what you do with the sliders. Eyebrows that are halfway up the forehead, regardless of what you do with the sliders. No high-heeled feet. Skins that are flat-toned and ashen with even less detail and realism than the ones made years ago for Bitsy et. al.

New users are going to get incredibly frustrated when they try to improve their avatar with the sliders and find that they can't, no matter what they do.

You can get better shapes with Ruth 2 than you can with Senra, and better skins at Freebie Galaxy. And Ruth has high heel feet that fit readily available shoes (I forget if it fits slink or maitreya - one of those).

At this point, I think these decisions have been made on purpose, to stop the big-name body and head makers from throwing a hissy fit and quitting.

[Lewis Luminos]

4 hours ago, rasterscan said:

Oh yes ! Thankyou for pointing that out ! I see what you're saying now !

Not a fair comparison when you're adding stuff to one of them (hair, hat, beard, glasses etc)  thas not included in either starter set.

[Phil Deakins]

I haven't looked through all the thread but, from the pics I've seen, I am decidedly underwhelmed. I have no idea about the bodies, or about adjusting and clothing them. I am only interested in whether or not they are good looking.

There are some very good looking females in the existing choices, such as the one with a dog in a bag that someone mentioned. And there are others. But I haven't seen any female pics of the new ones in the thread that are even slightly attractive.

I can't say that I'm disappointed because I'm not exactly on the lookout for romance, but, from what I've seen of the new ones in this thread, they are so unattractive. I sincerely hope that new users aren't forced into them.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Phil Deakins

[Silent Mistwalker]

8 hours ago, rasterscan said:

Oh yes ! Thankyou for pointing that out ! I see what you're saying now !

These are the "classic" avatars, not the one you show.

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Silent Mistwalker

[Conifer Dada]

The Jamie female avatar would be fine if it's part of a range of different starter bodies but you can't get away certain things, such as pushed-in baby nose, duck-beak lips, large butt and very thin ankles. I experimented also with the Blake male avatar and that seems better proportioned, whether he's thin or overweight.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Conifer Dada

[Emily Peridot]

Without additions to pretty them up they look pretty much how I looked in 2015... like crap! For how much they were hyped up you'd think they would have a little more effort put into them.

It's like advertising New York style pizza but then getting Little Caesars instead. Ick.

The previous starter avatars look way better in comparison. Disco Stu aestheticly is way more pleasing to the eye than Blake imo.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Missy Starchild

[Conifer Dada]

3 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

These are the "classic" avatars, not the one you show.

 

The one on the right was my choice of starter avatar when I joined in 2006.

[Jaimy Hancroft]

On 8/1/2023 at 11:14 PM, ItHadToComeToThis said:

Helga work out video: https://gyazo.com/e03609354d76b39e2e615501052dacf0

*dead*

[Chic Aeon]

I am not reading all 232 posts to see if someone said this already but two things occurred to me -- one new.

First off I checked and if you click on Choose and Avatar in Firestorm you get a completely blank floater.  Hopefully the LL viewer goes "somewhere". 

The skins with the new avatars are  traditional skins and now pretty much everything is EvoX (even the free things --- So THAT is going to be confusing for new folks.  

[AmeliaJ08]

6 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

I am not reading all 232 posts to see if someone said this already but two things occurred to me -- one new.

First off I checked and if you click on Choose and Avatar in Firestorm you get a completely blank floater.  Hopefully the LL viewer goes "somewhere". 

The skins with the new avatars are  traditional skins and now pretty much everything is EvoX (even the free things --- So THAT is going to be confusing for new folks.  

Yeah the EvoX thing... I know there are some holdouts but maybe it's time everyone accepts Lelutka won.

Is there any specific reason not to use EvoX mapping? I'm assuming it is open to everyone, I've seen a few compatible heads at this point.

Would simplify yet another thing that is going to be complicated for noobies to understand.

[Paul Hexem]

18 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

Is there any specific reason not to use EvoX mapping?

Because it's a non standard proprietary product? Because the source files are intellectual copyright and not available to the public?

Of course, these new bodies are no mod too, so maybe proprietary and closed source is the direction SL is going now.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

17 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

Because it's a non standard proprietary product? Because the source files are intellectual copyright and not available to the public?

Of course, these new bodies are no mod too, so maybe proprietary and closed source is the direction SL is going now.

As far ass I can remember you can download the OFFICIAL Evo/EvoX UV maps/dev pack off the web, its publicly available, in photoshop psd format, for basically everyone who wants it.

 

[Arielle Popstar]

50 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

Is there any specific reason not to use EvoX mapping? I'm assuming it is open to everyone, I've seen a few compatible heads at this point.

 

One reason is the EvoX mapping looks weird when rezzing. I use the Evo mapping for that reason on my Lelutka heads.

[Ted McGregor]

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Edited August 3, 2023 by Ted McGregor

[Fionalein]

1st generation Lelutka bento heads fitted seamless onto Maitreya necks, later ones never worked for me - I'll stick with SLUV.

[Ted McGregor]

17 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

As far ass I can remember you can download the OFFICIAL Evo/EvoX UV maps/dev pack off the web, its publicly available, in photoshop psd format, for basically everyone who wants it.

 

Does this allow commercial use or is it for personal use only ? The website also specifically asks businesses in SL to register.

PS nevermind.. that registration is for access to their meshes ... that seems the proprietary part. You are right.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Ted McGregor

[Rowan Amore]

12 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

As far ass I can remember you can download the OFFICIAL Evo/EvoX UV maps/dev pack off the web, its publicly available, in photoshop psd format, for basically everyone who wants it.

 

But the Senra head isn't built to the Lelutka mapping so it couldn't use anything mapped for Lelutka.  It's the actual head files that are proprietary.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

Just now, Ted McGregor said:

Does this allow commercial use or is it for personal use only ? The website also specifically asks businesses in SL to register.

Registering iss for the MESH dev kit, to make rigged/fitted addons for the heads, as far ass I remember, the link for the 60 ? mb psd file is in one of the boxes in the lelu head folder, 

You want the secret source files for the rigging/weight mapping, register and apply and wait, you want to make your own skin, tattoos, eyebrows, lipstick, eyeshadow, the files right there.

 

That worthless guf about "oh closed source! Evil!" is just that, worthless, name a major skin store in the last oh 15 years who gives away all the source files they use to make their skins because "open source is the spirit of the SL that never existed!".

What about all those no trans items, with no mod scripts people buy, how many furniture stores encourage you to copybot their products and give them away free, full perm?

 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

7 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

But the Senra head isn't built to the Lelutka mapping so it couldn't use anything mapped for Lelutka.  It's the actual head files that are proprietary.

The context wasn't about using Evox on SSUX, it was a complaint that nobody should use EvoX on anything because "closed source is evil, they don't give you the source files for the skins"

[Sid Nagy]

The longer I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion, that we might be looking too much in a wrong way at the new starters avatar set.

They are simply not made as additional avatars for us oldbies, but for newbies entering setting the first steps in our wonderful world. If we don't want to create for those, we better let them in our libraries and forget about them.

The advantages for the noobs (without them knowing):

1 They don't look to bad with them. It will even become a lot better if some experienced clothing designers are willing to make a few good looking items for the bodies as freebies or for bargains.
2 It gives them the possibility to fiddle around with avatars without using coins right away. So they can get a feeling if SL's fashionista game is something for them.
3 With these avatars they can set their first steps into exploring SL and with a bit of luck they find help of one of the mentors or other lovely people who are willing to help them with their first steps. After a few sessions they will find out about all the fashion abracadabra if they want to upgrade their avatars.

[Ted McGregor]

10 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

... because "open source is the spirit of the SL that never existed!".

Wait .. propietary intellectual property (data) and open source software vs. closed software are different subjects entirely. 

With propietary data for avatar meshes you establish a monopoly. I don't think we want that. 

[Fionalein]

Are the LoD models of clothing and body not aligned well? I noticed a new user clipping, I zoom in - no clipping, I zoomed out - clipping again.

Kitty not happy with doing the Zoomies now anymore.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Fionalein

[steeljane42]

1 hour ago, Fionalein said:

1st generation Lelutka bento heads fitted seamless onto Maitreya necks, later ones never worked for me - I'll stick with SLUV.

It works perfectly, but requires maitreya 5.3 and another setting on the maitreya's hud for the neck. Type 1 size 0 is what you want for EvoX. Type 2 is for the older heads like Lel's Origins line and abandoned Catwa heads, some of those also need size 5 as well.

[Qie Niangao]

2 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

One reason is the EvoX mapping looks weird when rezzing. I use the Evo mapping for that reason on my Lelutka heads.

Suppose we wanted to fix that so EvoX looked good while rezzing, what would be involved? I think the problem is that the EvoX mapped skins are baking on to the system body, which uses the SLUV map, right? At some point in the rezzing+baking process the system body will be fully alpha'd out and replaced by the EvoX-mapped mesh, but in the meantime, yeah: yuck.

Would it be practical to delay showing the system bodies until all attachments are loaded? I guess that would be a viewer change, not something the baking service could enforce by being slow to bake system avatars. Or is this all chasing in the wrong direction?

Personally, I don't think the improvements in the EvoX UV map were really worth all this pain. It's undeniably better, sure, but… well, it doesn't really matter, it's the de facto standard now, and it's a real problem that Senra doesn't use it.

[Gabriele Graves]

9 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Suppose we wanted to fix that so EvoX looked good while rezzing, what would be involved? I think the problem is that the EvoX mapped skins are baking on to the system body, which uses the SLUV map, right? At some point in the rezzing+baking process the system body will be fully alpha'd out and replaced by the EvoX-mapped mesh, but in the meantime, yeah: yuck.

Would it be practical to delay showing the system bodies until all attachments are loaded? I guess that would be a viewer change, not something the baking service could enforce by being slow to bake system avatars. Or is this all chasing in the wrong direction?

Personally, I don't think the improvements in the EvoX UV map were really worth all this pain. It's undeniably better, sure, but… well, it doesn't really matter, it's the de facto standard now, and it's a real problem that Senra doesn't use it.

How feasible would it be to add a viewer option that never rendered the system avatar when selected and somehow instructed other viewers not to render my system avatar?  That would seem to be one solution.  I would happily turn it off as I've not had any use for it for many years now.

It wouldn't convince me to go to from Evo to EvoX myself but I certainly would like not to see the other cyclopean nightmares whilst they are rezzing (assuming they use that option).

Edited August 3, 2023 by Gabriele Graves