A real shame : Losing my faith in LL and SL

[Love Zhaoying]

11 minutes ago, Mariusz Ivanovic said:

If someone defends something under any scrutiny for any reason for some benefit other than their own, then they are a shill. If someone acts like a shill and you call them a shill, its more an observation than an attack. You can call a soldier a killer, even if they killed in the line of duty, they still took a life, its not an attack, its just calling something what it is at face value. Don't act like a shill and get offended when someone calls you a shill or consider it an attack. I've had several posters from this post, act like shills on previous posts I've made, seen them acting like shills on COUNTLESS posts that critique SL or LL in any way. If I was not genuine in my intent and feelings and just making posts to crap on SL and LL, you could call me a troll...thats not an attack either, its a label and model of behavior noticed because its been seen over and over...you are being a shill right now by playing victim and diverting attention from my original intent for this post. Its being passive aggressive, but still taking the focus away from my critiques, and making it about you or whomever you feel I attacked. I don't see how you can post 24000 times, spend hours on here diverting decent, and not have some vested interest in LL in some way...therefore...a shill. This is your full time job? posting on here? do you work for LL? You seem to defend any action and try to squash or divert any decent related to LL no matter what...not many people have that type of devotion, time, or enthusiasm unless they fall into the category of "shill". If that's an attack, then sorry but not sorry...I did just apologize to you in my last post for hurting your feelings, and again, making this post all about you, and diverting attention from my original comments. I've already asked you more than once to move on, but you keep persisting...as a shill would.

I don't think "shill" means what you think it means.

From Dictionary.com:

noun

a person who poses as a customer in order to decoy others into participating, as at a gambling house, auction, confidence game, etc.

a person who publicizes or praises something or someone for reasons of self-interest, personal profit, or friendship or loyalty.

From the Cambridge dictionary:

"someone who helps another person to persuade people to buy something, especially by pretending to be a satisfied customer"

From the Oxford dictionary:

an accomplice of a hawker, gambler, or swindler who acts as an enthusiastic customer to entice or encourage others.

"I used to be a shill in a Reno gambling club"

What all of the definitions of "shill" have in common, is that they assign some "ulterior motive" for our support; every dictionary usage of "shill" defines that a "shill" is not being "authentic" or "honest".

Seriously - you think we do not believe what we are saying? Just because we support Second Life, Linden Lab, and disagree with some of your assertions?  

ETA: Your first line quoted above spells it out "If someone defends something under any scrutiny for any reason for some benefit other than their own, then they are a shill."  You do not believe we are being authentic!  That's sad.

That's a very "unkind" position to take, that everyone who takes our position must be doing so not because we are honest, but because we stand to profit in some way.

Anyway, it's nice to see a passionate discussion, even if you do tend to be a little attacky.  (I just made "attacky" up, kind of like vampires are "a little bitey".)

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by Love Zhaoying

[Persephone Emerald]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I don't think "shill" means what you think it means.

From Dictionary.com:

noun

a person who poses as a customer in order to decoy others into participating, as at a gambling house, auction, confidence game, etc.

a person who publicizes or praises something or someone for reasons of self-interest, personal profit, or friendship or loyalty.

From the Cambridge dictionary:

"someone who helps another person to persuade people to buy something, especially by pretending to be a satisfied customer"

From the Oxford dictionary:

an accomplice of a hawker, gambler, or swindler who acts as an enthusiastic customer to entice or encourage others.

"I used to be a shill in a Reno gambling club"

What all of the definitions of "shill" have in common, is that they assign some "ulterior motive" for our support; every dictionary usage of "shill" defines that a "shill" is not being "authentic" or "honest".

Seriously - you think we do not believe what we are saying? Just because we support Second Life, Linden Lab, and disagree with some of your assertions?  

That's a very "unkind" position to take, that everyone who takes our position must be doing so not because we are honest, but because we stand to profit in some way.

Anyway, it's nice to see a passionate discussion, even if you do tend to be a little attacky.  (I just made "attacky" up, kind of like vampires are "a little bitey".)

 

Saying they're "attacky" is a fair comment. If you had said they're "a tacky" that would be an ad hominem attack.

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Persephone Emerald said:

Saying they're "attacky" is a fair comment. If you had said they're "a tacky" that would be an ad hominem attack.

I left it there for someone else to find, like a carefully placed trail of breadcrumbs leading to a candy house in the woods. Not sushpishous! No, not at all! 

[Mariusz Ivanovic]

7 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

From the Cambridge dictionary:

"someone who helps another person to persuade people to buy something, especially by pretending to be a satisfied customer"

 

 

You are literally posting a definition of the word as I was describing it, so how do you see that I don't know what the word means? You are also diverting attention away from my original post, and making this about YOU, and word definitions, accusations of attacks, all of which have absolutely nothing to do with anything I originally posted about. Post whatever you like your shillness, I'm done, you've silenced all decenters and anyone with a half a brain to think for themselves...praise all mighty LL they are flawless and perfect...take all my money please! you win! I'm sorry for ever doubting them...everything works great! no problems with the friends list problems LL has already stated exist! I'm gonna go bash my head against a brick wall now, it will be more enlightening than continuing this engagement...I'm withdrawing my earlier proposal of marriage, you can keep the dog, make sure to give her treats, she likes them! Enjoy the rest of your day!

[EliseAnne85]

19 minutes ago, Mariusz Ivanovic said:

If someone defends something under any scrutiny for any reason for some benefit other than their own, then they are a shill.

Just want to make clear I am not a shill nor defending SL by saying I have not had problems with my FRIENDS LIST.

But, you need to understand, I may have a different SL than you do.

1.  I've been building since sculpties and running a store and offline quite a lot in other programs even when on SL.  I tend to notice in the left hand corner of my local chat area when friends log on or off but even then might not have the time to talk to anyone as I'm building.  

2.  I go to *occasional* events in SL and most of my friends go to the same events so I see them all at the same time for the most part with little exception here and there.  

3.  I never make big friends list.  I stopped making big friends list in my first year of SL in the 2000's because we ended up never contacting or talking to each other.  Even my FB friends list is under 30.  Speaking of even 27 friends in SL, whom I do talk to or see at our main events altogether, that's a lot of people to be real online friends with, meaning have the time for.  I do not have time to keep up with 27 social media or MMO friends in any meaningful way.  We have fun together as a group when we get together and I talk to my friends when I can in IM's, especially to let them know I'm coming to see them and say Hi for the holidays (which for me start around Halloween).  

But, I'm not a shill.  I just never had a friends list problem nor have I seen it written of on these forums.  So, I'd never heard of friends list problem at all before.  I thought I'd say something as sometimes things can be figured out that way.  I have never had a large friends list but I don't know if that has anything to do with anything anyways.  I just wanted to make it clear I am being genuine.  I don't have any issues with friends list but I lead a particular SL which is more build-oriented than friends or social-oriented.  

[Arielle Popstar]

18 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

a person who publicizes or praises something or someone for reasons of self-interest, personal profit, or friendship or loyalty.

 

I see that happen a lot in these forums. Heaven forbid a poster with less than a 1000 posts dares to have a complaint about something in S/L as all the forumites suddenly become big fan boys and girls for the Lab, even if they were complaining of the exact same thing themselves only a thread or two before

The actual topic was about Losing Faith in SL and LL but instead everyone chose to pick on the friend issue even though it was only a part of the issue but I guess the easiest to be "attacky" on.

[Love Zhaoying]

13 minutes ago, Mariusz Ivanovic said:

You are literally posting a definition of the word as I was describing it, so how do you see that I don't know what the word means? You are also diverting attention away from my original post, and making this about YOU, and word definitions, accusations of attacks, all of which have absolutely nothing to do with anything I originally posted about. Post whatever you like your shillness, I'm done, you've silenced all decenters and anyone with a half a brain to think for themselves...praise all mighty LL they are flawless and perfect...take all my money please! you win! I'm sorry for ever doubting them...everything works great! no problems with the friends list problems LL has already stated exist! I'm gonna go bash my head against a brick wall now, it will be more enlightening than continuing this engagement...I'm withdrawing my earlier proposal of marriage, you can keep the dog, make sure to give her treats, she likes them! Enjoy the rest of your day!

Sorry, I was most of the way through my post before I discovered that you had indeed including a "correct" meaning of "shill" as the first sentence of what I quoted. 

But your definition is my point - by calling us "shills" - you do not believe we are honest in our intention.  

Seriously - your only "defense" of our counter-points to your claims, is to call us "shills".  That's just an "ad hominem attack". (Thanks, @Persephone Emerald).  I do not think you really, honestly believe that we are all "lying" about our beliefs and have some ulterior motive.  I think you just do not like when people disagree with you.

It's OK.  Really! We are used to that on the Forums.  

As for "Taking a Break" from Second Life:  You may find - if you take JUST a long enough break, that things will seem "mightily different" - bugs fixed, new mobile viewers (which means lots of more people), new default / free bodies, new "materials" (PBR), actual "mirrors", 2048 Premium Plus homes - ALL of that and much, much more, is coming, very very VERY soon. 

IN FACT: the one specific thing we discussed the most - which you brought up in your original post - the "Friends online / Friends list" issue, is RIGHT on the login screen. Linden Lab is actually, actively working on the issue.  I know at least one other person brought it up in this thread, but here's a picture and a link:  

https://status.secondlifegrid.net/incidents/5rjh7k9wlvyj

Edited May 27, 2023 by Love Zhaoying
Spacing

[Mariusz Ivanovic]

8 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

Just want to make clear I am not a shill nor defending SL by saying I have not had problems with my FRIENDS LIST.

But, you need to understand, I may have a different SL than you do.

1.  I've been building since sculpties and running a store and offline quite a lot in other programs even when on SL.  I tend to notice in the left hand corner of my local chat area when friends log on or off but even then might not have the time to talk to anyone as I'm building.  

2.  I go to *occasional* events in SL and most of my friends go to the same events so I see them all at the same time for the most part with little exception here and there.  

3.  I never make big friends list.  I stopped making big friends list in my first year of SL in the 2000's because we ended up never contacting or talking to each other.  Even my FB friends list is under 30.  Speaking of even 27 friends in SL, whom I do talk to or see at our main events altogether, that's a lot of people to be real online friends with, meaning have the time for.  I do not have time to keep up with 27 social media or MMO friends in any meaningful way.  We have fun together as a group when we get together and I talk to my friends when I can in IM's, especially to let them know I'm coming to see them and say Hi for the holidays (which for me start around Halloween).  

But, I'm not a shill.  I just never had a friends list problem nor have I seen it written of on these forums.  So, I'd never heard of friends list problem at all before.  I thought I'd say something as sometimes things can be figured out that way.  I have never had a large friends list but I don't know if that has anything to do with anything anyways.  I just wanted to make it clear I am being genuine.  I don't have any issues with friends list but I lead a particular SL which is more build-oriented than friends or social-oriented.  

Please don't take anything I said personally against you, it was a generally made statement directed at a very specific group of posters. I was never stating that I felt even SOME of the posters in here were shills, and seriously, I welcome any critiques and debates on my previously made statements as they relate to my original post, I really have a thick skin, and don't offend easily, and never expect everyone to agree with my opinions, but that doesn't mean my opinions are not valid, they come from a passion I have for SL. It just seems like the same people on these forums always divert any negative comments away from any meaningful constructive solutions, and devolve it into well...this post is a perfect example...I've seen it 100 times before, OP is upset at LL's " "XYZ" issues, and the post devolves into discussions about pie...like actual friggin pies. I've enjoyed reading your insights and experiences on the relevant topics of this thread, but please don't take any negative comments I made as directed towards you.

[animats]

The yelling here is getting a bit loud.

Second Life is a 3D virtual world which some people use as a text-based social network. Those social networking features were an afterthought, and it shows. They are a mismatch to what today's users expect from a social network. Hence the problem.

(I'd written several paragraphs on why finding who's logged into SL is hard, but it was too technical for this discussion. Short version: you're really logged into the current region, not the whole grid. Local messages and friends work pretty well. Long distance cross-region info involves inter-server cooperation behind the scenes. The destination user's avatar has to be located in world before you can talk. That's complicated.

That happened to Facebook, too. I was once talking to one of Facebook's architects at a meeting at Stanford. Facebook started as something aimed at college students. Organize your frat's party on Facebook. So the original Facebook architecture was optimized for local traffic, with limited long distance capability. But people didn't use Facebook that way after the first few years. The architecture started to choke. They had to do a complete redesign, one that didn't assume most messages were local.)

This isn't really a good excuse from the user point of view, but that seems to be how we got here.

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, animats said:

The yelling here is getting a bit loud.

Second Life is a 3D virtual world which some people use as a text-based social network. Those social networking features were an afterthought, and it shows. They are a mismatch to what today's users expect from a social network. Hence the problem.

(I'd written several paragraphs on why finding who's logged into SL is hard, but it was too technical for this discussion. Short version: you're really logged into the current region, not the whole grid. Local messages and friends work pretty well. Long distance cross-region info involves inter-server cooperation behind the scenes. The destination user's avatar has to be located in world before you can talk. That's complicated.

That happened to Facebook, too. I was once talking to one of Facebook's architects at a meeting at Stanford. Facebook started as something aimed at college students. Organize your frat's party on Facebook. So the original Facebook architecture was optimized for local traffic, with limited long distance capability. But people didn't use Facebook that way after the first few years. The architecture started to choke. They had to do a complete redesign, one that didn't assume most messages were local.)

This isn't really a good excuse from the user point of view, but that seems to be how we got here.

Thank you for the technical explanation! 

[Mariusz Ivanovic]

14 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

bugs fixed, new mobile viewers (which means lots of more people), new default / free bodies, new "materials" (PBR), actual "mirrors", 2048 Premium Plus homes - ALL of that and much, much more, is coming, very very VERY soon. 

IN FACT: the one specific thing we discussed the most - which you brought up in your original post - the "Friends online / Friends list" issue, is RIGHT on the login screen. Linden Lab is actually, actively working on the issue.  I know at least one other person brought it up in this thread, but here's a picture and a link:  

OK so...seriously when I read this post, I was totally busting out laughing inside and out because, (and really I'm NOT attacking you here, or trying to hurt your feelings) but this part I quoted...you are like..."I'm totally not a shill" but then go on to post what sounds like a promotional video for LL...like a literal commercial for the company...do you not see the humor, irony, coincidence of this, and WHY I'd think you were actually a shill? I'm sure you are self aware of your actions and things you post...This is bordering on comedic gold to me, like seriously...I'm starting to think maybe you are actually trolling me here, because any reasonable person would look at this last post and be like...damn this girl is a shill! Are you really this deep and layered? We might need to get together in SL for a coffee and private conversation, and a good ole laugh over this...You are a trip girl

[Maitimo]

3 hours ago, Mariusz Ivanovic said:

So imagine this...you PAY to go on a cruise, you expect a certain level of value, luxury, amenities, and destinations. By no means did you go the cheap route, spared no expense, and when you get to the port, you get an inflatable raft that you have to row yourself, and to eat, a hot dog and soda, with a compass to point you in the right direction to far away travel destinations. Guess we found your dream vacation, huh Solar? SSDD Bon voyage sucker! Keep shillin my boy! Here is some basic reality for you...I pay for this service, and expect the features to work properly and fulfill my needs. a friends list is a BASIC FUNCTION of ANY social online interaction, and if you can't agree with that, then who's the one not acknowledging basic reality?

The solution to all of this is simple.

Stop paying.

 

[EliseAnne85]

4 minutes ago, Mariusz Ivanovic said:

Please don't take anything I said personally against you, it was a generally made statement directed at a very specific group of posters. I was never stating that I felt even SOME of the posters in here were shills, and seriously, I welcome any critiques and debates on my previously made statements as they relate to my original post, I really have a thick skin, and don't offend easily, and never expect everyone to agree with my opinions, but that doesn't mean my opinions are not valid, they come from a passion I have for SL. It just seems like the same people on these forums always divert any negative comments away from any meaningful constructive solutions, and devolve it into well...this post is a perfect example...I've seen it 100 times before, OP is upset at LL's " "XYZ" issues, and the post devolves into discussions about pie...like actual friggin pies. I've enjoyed reading your insights and experiences on the relevant topics of this thread, but please don't take any negative comments I made as directed towards you.

Okay, I won't, thanks for letting me know.

As far as bringing up technical issues and you losing faith in LL, it seems to be part of the reason you are losing faith in LL as per your written out OP.  You are losing faith in their lack of "fixing" things that need to be fixed.

But, also the reason I responded I don't have issues with friends list is because of my issue with EEP.  I know people have other machines so I needed to see what *their experience is with their machine* and then kind of compare notes to see how I can improve EEP with my equipment.  We all have different equipment.  

I see now the friends list does have some problems and you sound burned out from it.  I had *EEP is a hassle* and takes too much time burnout for awhile too.

I've taken breaks from SL and returned.  Many people have.  It's okay to do that, but I think you said you are paying monthly.  Hmmm, that may be one of the reasons I don't want to pay monthly.  

[Mariusz Ivanovic]

3 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

Okay, I won't, thanks for letting me know.

As far as bringing up technical issues and you losing faith in LL, it seems to be part of the reason you are losing faith in LL as per your written out OP.  You are losing faith in their lack of "fixing" things that need to be fixed.

But, also the reason I responded I don't have issues with friends list is because of my issue with EEP.  I know people have other machines so I needed to see what *their experience is with their machine* and then kind of compare notes to see how I can improve EEP with my equipment.  We all have different equipment.  

I see now the friends list does have some problems and you sound burned out from it.  I had *EEP is a hassle* and takes too much time burnout for awhile too.

I've taken breaks from SL and returned.  Many people have.  It's okay to do that, but I think you said you are paying monthly.  Hmmm, that may be one of the reasons I don't want to pay monthly.  

I pay yearly subs x4, so they already have my money, and I have little recourse other than to come on here every few months and let out my frustrations no matter if they come from a good or bad place. I used to have these yearly subs x4 in ADDITION to buying over 200$ worth of L$ per month, which I've already put a stop to, and feel I spend more money than most people, and no, NOBODY is getting my stuff if/when I go, most of my avatars are worth more than RL cars when adding up all their inventory....I'm not bragging here, just stating my level of investment and former belief I had in this company and product.

[Coffee Pancake]

4 minutes ago, Mariusz Ivanovic said:

I have little recourse other than to come on here every few months and let out my frustrations

Have to let us know how that's working out.

[Rowan Amore]

10 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Have to let us know how that's working out.

Isn't that what personal blogs are for?  🤔

[Mariusz Ivanovic]

3 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Isn't that what personal blogs are for?  🤔

17k posts, haven't you kinda made THIS your personal blog? Worried I might be infringing on your territory?

 

Edited May 28, 2023 by Mariusz Ivanovic

[Love Zhaoying]

31 minutes ago, Mariusz Ivanovic said:

you are like..."I'm totally not a shill" but then go on to post what sounds like a promotional video for LL...like a literal commercial for the company...do you not see the humor, irony, coincidence of this, and WHY I'd think you were actually a shill? I'm sure you are self aware of your actions and things you post

Yes but..

You miss the point. Completely!

Just because someone lists things that have been done, fixed, or are planned by Linden Lab, does not make them a shill.

It does not even mean they are a promoter.

It only means, they are providing you information.

Here is a use-case: let's say, instead of your complaints, rants, and ad hominem attacks, you came into the forum and said, "Hey guys, I'm feeling bummed out. Second life just seems outdated. So many bugs. Is there any plan to improve things, or do something to attract new users? It just feels like Linden Lab doesn't do anything for us lately."..

..I or someone, or multiple someone's, would provided the SAME information. It's just information.

You choose to view that information suspiciously. So, your interpretation is colored by your point of view and predisposition.

You see? It had nothing to do with "us". For my part, I provided a "list of positive things" not just as an argument, but to provide you some "hope" - hope that things are getting better, things will get better, someone cares.

But instead, since you view the INFORNATION (that's all it is) with suspicion and a negative pre-disposition, your viewpoint is negative even when provided with positive INFORMATION.

See? We're not shills, your attitude is just skewed. 

[Rowan Amore]

10 minutes ago, Mariusz Ivanovic said:

17k posts, haven't you kinda made THIS your personal blog?

 

If I had started 17K threads then yes. There are folks here with way more posts than i have.  When I do post a subject, I welcome any and all comments.    You, on the other hand, only want constructive comments.  That's not how a forum functions.  On your personal blog, you could just delete everyone who has anything negative to say.  

ETA...since I saw you added to your post...not in the least.concerned about you...at all.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Rowan Amore

[BilliJo Aldrin]

Not trying to be contrary to the OP, but Second Life is working just fine for me.

[Love Zhaoying]

24 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

You, on the other hand, only want constructive comments

Surely you don't mean, "comments in agreement"?

[Mariusz Ivanovic]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Yes but..

You miss the point. Completely!

Just because someone lists things that have been done, fixed, or are planned by Linden Lab, does not make them a shill.

It does not even mean they are a promoter.

It only means, they are providing you information.

Here is a use-case: let's say, instead of your complaints, rants, and ad hominem attacks, you came into the forum and said, "Hey guys, I'm feeling bummed out. Second life just seems outdated. So many bugs. Is there any plan to improve things, or do something to attract new users? It just feels like Linden Lab doesn't do anything for us lately."..

..I or someone, or multiple someone's, would provided the SAME information. It's just information.

You choose to view that information suspiciously. So, your interpretation is colored by your point of view and predisposition.

You see? It had nothing to do with "us". For my part, I provided a "list of positive things" not just as an argument, but to provide you some "hope" - hope that things are getting better, things will get better, someone cares.

But instead, since you view the INFORNATION (that's all it is) with suspicion and a negative pre-disposition, your viewpoint is negative even when provided with positive INFORMATION.

See? We're not shills, your attitude is just skewed. 

You think I miss a lot, misunderstand a lot, misinterpret a lot, but I think I'm pretty spot on. I'm sorry my thoughts on issues important to me, don't conform to your expectations of how they should be presented, perhaps LL has a form you can provide to address this? You seem to assume a lot about me, yet are very inaccurate in those assumptions. I wasn't COMPLAINING about your provided information, I just thought the delivery sounded a bit...scripted? Like I said...almost like promotional material for LL, and found it humorous, and ironic considering the topic we've been discussing. Since we are suggesting ways we should package our rants or information, if I was trying to convey what you were saying, I'd just be like...HEY! theres a bunch of cool new features coming! So at least there is SOME innovation and things to look forward to in the future. Instead of sounding like I was reading tech specifications from a DVR manual. Thank you for knowing and telling me how I should feel though, about any given topic. Since we are doing that, maybe you can change your perspective to know the difference between some playful banter, and an ATTACK of some kind? I see nothing wrong with the original post, and how I expressed myself. I pay for a service, and expect basic functions of the service to work as intended. I'm not even being overly critical or asking a lot...Things happen, bugs, outages, restarts, glitches, but these issues are PERSISTANT REPEATABLE LONG LASTING ISSUES that have not been fixed after ...well I was apparently being generous by saying a year, but in your own words you claimed over 10 years! So I'm not sure what you are even debating here...You are just repeatedly diverting off topic, making things about you, and refusing to just move on as repeatedly requested. Thank you for your information you supplied, and the contributions you've made to the thread I started, but please refrain from telling me how to express myself, and how I should feel about...ANYTHING. I'm a coherent adult capable of expressing myself as I deem appropriate, and as long as I'm following the guidelines of the forums, have every right to. It's not even like you are disagreeing with what I'm saying, you are just diverting the topic AWAY from what I'm saying, and that is NOT ok, or welcome. I have no issues at all with people disagreeing with me, as I've stated many times in many posts here, and its not something I even expect or WANT. As long as its constructive and relevant to the post, its fine, no anger, no attacking. I've seen you do exactly what you are doing in THIS post, in other posts...over and over. If you just don't get me, I think that's a YOU issue, since I've explained myself and my position and purpose of this rant over and over to you and anyone else with comments or questions. I'll ask again, please just move on, because I'm tired of this silly back and forth about totally NOTHING relating to my post. I'm sure you're not going to stop though until you get your last word in, and feel like you've won the internet for the day! Here's a sticker, go away!

[Silent Mistwalker]

 

This thread...

[Love Zhaoying]

48 minutes ago, Mariusz Ivanovic said:

You think I miss a lot, misunderstand a lot, misinterpret a lot, but I think I'm pretty spot on. I'm sorry my thoughts on issues important to me, don't conform to your expectations of how they should be presented, perhaps LL has a form you can provide to address this? You seem to assume a lot about me, yet are very inaccurate in those assumptions. I wasn't COMPLAINING about your provided information, I just thought the delivery sounded a bit...scripted? Like I said...almost like promotional material for LL, and found it humorous, and ironic considering the topic we've been discussing. Since we are suggesting ways we should package our rants or information, if I was trying to convey what you were saying, I'd just be like...HEY! theres a bunch of cool new features coming! So at least there is SOME innovation and things to look forward to in the future. Instead of sounding like I was reading tech specifications from a DVR manual. Thank you for knowing and telling me how I should feel though, about any given topic. Since we are doing that, maybe you can change your perspective to know the difference between some playful banter, and an ATTACK of some kind? I see nothing wrong with the original post, and how I expressed myself. I pay for a service, and expect basic functions of the service to work as intended. I'm not even being overly critical or asking a lot...Things happen, bugs, outages, restarts, glitches, but these issues are PERSISTANT REPEATABLE LONG LASTING ISSUES that have not been fixed after ...well I was apparently being generous by saying a year, but in your own words you claimed over 10 years! So I'm not sure what you are even debating here...You are just repeatedly diverting off topic, making things about you, and refusing to just move on as repeatedly requested. Thank you for your information you supplied, and the contributions you've made to the thread I started, but please refrain from telling me how to express myself, and how I should feel about...ANYTHING. I'm a coherent adult capable of expressing myself as I deem appropriate, and as long as I'm following the guidelines of the forums, have every right to. It's not even like you are disagreeing with what I'm saying, you are just diverting the topic AWAY from what I'm saying, and that is NOT ok, or welcome. I have no issues at all with people disagreeing with me, as I've stated many times in many posts here, and its not something I even expect or WANT. As long as its constructive and relevant to the post, its fine, no anger, no attacking. I've seen you do exactly what you are doing in THIS post, in other posts...over and over. If you just don't get me, I think that's a YOU issue, since I've explained myself and my position and purpose of this rant over and over to you and anyone else with comments or questions. I'll ask again, please just move on, because I'm tired of this silly back and forth about totally NOTHING relating to my post. I'm sure you're not going to stop though until you get your last word in, and feel like you've won the internet for the day! Here's a sticker, go away!

I'm sorry, but I just can't read your long posts that have no paragraph breaks.

Guess I hit a nerve with my last post, which was honest, sincere, and patient. 

Edited May 28, 2023 by Love Zhaoying
No, not to

[EliseAnne85]

1 hour ago, Mariusz Ivanovic said:

I pay yearly subs x4, so they already have my money, and I have little recourse other than to come on here every few months and let out my frustrations no matter if they come from a good or bad place. I used to have these yearly subs x4 in ADDITION to buying over 200$ worth of L$ per month, which I've already put a stop to, and feel I spend more money than most people, and no, NOBODY is getting my stuff if/when I go, most of my avatars are worth more than RL cars when adding up all their inventory....I'm not bragging here, just stating my level of investment and former belief I had in this company and product.

But, you got some worth out of it, don't you think, or you wouldn't have kept buying?  And, you know with the SL TOS, it's all temporal anyways which means we have to enjoy it for the here and now as SL may not always be here.  SL gives us no permanent clause because of "life" or as they say "bleep happens".  So, that is our only way of enjoying SL, in the here and now.

But there are new things in the pipeline which I am personally lukewarm about but Love seems a bit excited so was sharing it.  I love the mesh the way it is and worry about losing content to things that look goofily reflecting too much. 

I was here when mesh first started and it took years for it to become really good like it is now today.  I feel PBR will be that way and may not be really good for a couple of years.  But, I'm kind of excited about other new things.  I rarely buy over 3600 lindens so the fee increase did NOT affect me in the slightest.  Plus, I've only cashed out once my SL; I spend the lindens I make in SL. 

Maybe paying monthly isn't worth it for you right now.  

ETA:  Oh, sorry, I messed up, my bad.  You paid the money already yearly up front.  Well, then if things don't improve, maybe yearly subscriptions aren't for you after these are done.  But, you paid already, so wait n see is about all you can do.  New things are supposedly coming this year, Summer.  

Edited May 28, 2023 by EliseAnne85