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SUGGESTION - more avatar information.


Ren Float
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On 3/22/2023 at 1:21 PM, Alwin Alcott said:

click on the "quote" at the btm of the message :) 

770337480e7c1bb9fe396f1f05e3fb45.png

it will put the txt in a quote window in a new message. With clicking in the quoted part you can erase the parts you don''t want, or leave it as is, and put your reply under the quoted "window"

Ok.... on an unrelated note.... I accidentally put my cursor into the quoted text, but no matter what I did I couldn't exit it. I tried TAB and ESC.

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On 3/22/2023 at 1:42 PM, Love Zhaoying said:

Thanks, I wasn't sure if you wanted them added to the viewer, or as scripting options for people who create HUDs. 

It already CAN be put into a dance hud - all it has to do is use a llSay(channel, text)... and then each person wears something that listens to that channel. The problem is that each HUD would almost certainly use its own channel. This adds needlessly to the number of attachments (each invitation would require its own listener)

It would also require that each maker adds this option.

The only way to guarantee universal adoption is to have it handled by the viewer.

 

Edited by Ren Float
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23 hours ago, Bree Giffen said:

Isn't there an animation information display in the developer menu? I forgot what it's called. Don't know how to figure out which HUD is controlling you. It's possible to have animations running on your avatar from both HUDs at the same time but one has a higher priority over the other or one started playing after the other. 

Yes, it is possible to have multiple HUDs controlling me at any given moment, but we take turns controlling the crowd to prevent this from happening.

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14 hours ago, Ren Float said:

It already CAN be put into a dance hud - all it has to do is use a llSay(channel, text)... and then each person wears something that listens to that channel. The problem is that each HUD would almost certainly use its own channel. This adds needlessly to the number of attachments (each invitation would require its own listener)

It would also require that each maker adds this option.

The only way to guarantee universal adoption is to have it handled by the viewer.

One thing that's nagging at me is whether viewers are allowed to know the names of animations not owned by that viewer's avatar, or if that can be known, whether it can be shown to the user. There must be some restriction there, else we wouldn't be plagued by these damned UUIDs everywhere they could be more usefully replaced by names. If I'm guessing correctly that the viewers can't even know those animation names, they couldn't show them to the user. (It would be handy if a viewer dev could weigh in on what's really the situation here.)

I gather "each maker" means the several dancers are using different HUDs from different creators. That makes everything more complicated. Otherwise, assuming animation names are forbidden to viewers, I'd suggest replacing the dance HUD(s) with a new script that:

  • uses all the animations scavenged from the old HUDs,
  • manages dance subscriptions from the other avatars,
  • plays the dances on every subscribed avatar,
  • broadcasts the active dance information to all the subscribed HUDs, and
  • displays that information when sent to or received from other HUDs and played on the HUD's avatar.

This would still require that the script crack the code of silence and map between an animation's name and its key, but I think that's doable for a script containing the animation to be named, worn by an avatar willing to be animated.

None of this seems like rocket science, but I doubt there are even three places on the grid that would actually use such a script, even if it were free.

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3 hours ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

Either they click on the dance thing and get a fancy blue dialog window or check local chat to read the last status line...

The blue dialog box merely tells you who is inviting you. If you are already invited to two other dance HUDs, you have no way to know who is controlling you at that moment. There is also no way to know the name of the animation being used.

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33 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

One thing that's nagging at me is whether viewers are allowed to know the names of animations not owned by that viewer's avatar, or if that can be known, whether it can be shown to the user. There must be some restriction there, else we wouldn't be plagued by these damned UUIDs everywhere they could be more usefully replaced by names. If I'm guessing correctly that the viewers can't even know those animation names, they couldn't show them to the user. (It would be handy if a viewer dev could weigh in on what's really the situation here.)

I gather "each maker" means the several dancers are using different HUDs from different creators. That makes everything more complicated. Otherwise, assuming animation names are forbidden to viewers, I'd suggest replacing the dance HUD(s) with a new script that:

  • uses all the animations scavenged from the old HUDs,
  • manages dance subscriptions from the other avatars,
  • plays the dances on every subscribed avatar,
  • broadcasts the active dance information to all the subscribed HUDs, and
  • displays that information when sent to or received from other HUDs and played on the HUD's avatar.

This would still require that the script crack the code of silence and map between an animation's name and its key, but I think that's doable for a script containing the animation to be named, worn by an avatar willing to be animated.

None of this seems like rocket science, but I doubt there are even three places on the grid that would actually use such a script, even if it were free.

TBH, I am not 100% certain what the viewer (currently) can know. It may take some redesigning to make this information available. It seems to me that any information available to a HUD COULD be made available to the viewer.

Yes, we have multiple dance HUD makers in use. Each person has his/her preference. My preference is Barre Dance HUD - which will no longer be receiving updates, ever. Despite this fact, it is the ONLY HUD that operates the way I want. I have bought and tried all the others, nothing else comes close.

It's not necessary for HUD B to know what HUD A is doing. Nor is it necessary to manage who is dancing.

In our multi-driver situation, we communicate when we change who is controlling the dancing. It is seriously too much effort and too time consuming for each person to manually type out the name of the animation currently in use.

Even in a single HUD situation, just being able to know the name of the animation in use could be thought of as "demoing" the animation; if I like it, I at least know what to buy!

 

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First, my train of thought jumped the tracks here:

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

This would still require that the script crack the code of silence and map between an animation's name and its key

That would not be necessary if the script that plays the animation broadcasts to other the name of the animation it's playing because it plays them by name. The anim key-to-name mapping only becomes necessary if a script is trying to independently figure out the name of an animation some other script is playing on an avatar. That situation is still relevant here, but not in the approach I was describing.

37 minutes ago, Ren Float said:

It's not necessary for HUD B to know what HUD A is doing. Nor is it necessary to manage who is dancing.

I guess I'm understanding that several dancers are being animated by one dancer's HUD at a time, and that HUD would need to know who those dancers are in order to keep animating them. (Sort of like what we used to call a "chim" and maybe still do for all I know.) Somehow that population of dancers-to-be-animated would need to be "managed" as by invitation or subscription or something. That much is just what I understand to be required of the current HUDs, but these hypothetical HUDs would also share the active dance name for display on everybody's own copy of the HUD. (Another option would be to just send it to their local chat, which should work fine for a small number of dancers, but those dancers may have better things to do with local chat than watch the dance names scroll by along with everything else.)

But that's all kind of academic because it assumes replacing each dancer's favorite dance HUD, which would introduce the replacement script to a bunch of already unhappy users. As a scripter myself: no thanks!

So that leaves two options: 1.) A separate, additional scripted HUD that each dancer would wear just to track, share, and display this information, or 2.) the viewer option. The viewer option is why we care about what the viewer does (and can) know. What it "can" know, though, isn't a technological limitation, it's potentially a policy constraint, imposed to placate some IP purists in the past, or at least that's my concern.

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2 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

So that leaves two options: 1.) A separate, additional scripted HUD that each dancer would wear just to track, share, and display this information, or 2.) the viewer option. The viewer option is why we care about what the viewer does (and can) know. What it "can" know, though, isn't a technological limitation, it's potentially a policy constraint, imposed to placate some IP purists in the past, or at least that's my concern.

I view option (2) as being the far more desirable one - this would guarantee that no special measures would be needed by the HUD or its owner.

As for "IP purists", names are not the important "intellectual property", the movements are. And, as I mentioned, watching a dance being performed SHOULD be considered as demoing the animation; who could possibly object to that??

Edited by Ren Float
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1 hour ago, Ren Float said:

As for "IP purists", names are not the important "intellectual property", the movements are. And, as I mentioned, watching a dance being performed SHOULD be considered as demoing the animation; who could possibly object to that??

Oh, I completely agree. And maybe I'm worrying about nothing. It's only that, as I understand the ancient history, it was once possible to play animations by UUID, as it's possible to paint textures or play sounds or read notecards, etc., by UUID. Supposedly, animators argued that animations deserved more protection, so that was disabled, but now scripts are really handicapped: they cannot get most names of animations reported by llGetAnimationList. And those scripts also cannot directly get the UUIDs of anims in their contents, so they really can't tell what animation is playing without some hackery.

Thing is, I'm really not sure how much of that IP paranoia for scripts also applies artificially to viewers, which is why I keep bringing it up, hoping somebody like a viewer dev might clarify. 

And that's to scope the battle for a jira to do what you want to do, not to discourage submitting that jira. Even if it is current policy not to let viewers know the names of animations played by other avatars, we know it would be a silly policy; we'd just need to add that argument to the jira at some point.

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