second life photography discussion

[xXSuicidalIdolXx Candycane]

maybe some could help me better understand why? I noticed within the art and photography of second life it seems those who put way less effort into pictures and avatar appearance have a higher likelihood of more reactions, following and comments, meanwhile someone like me who spends well over 7 hours on a photoshoot from start to finish who very well cleans up and cares about detail yet the follows, reactions and comments are nowhere to be found, personally it's a *****ty feeling as someone who works really hard on photography and puts in the effort but in no return is not interacted with but on the other hand someone with no skills or a nice looking avatar gets to what I can see full fame, sure one can argue about what makes a picture what it is, colors, detail, outfits, setting, lighting, background etc. maybe someone could shed light on what I'm doing wrong but it just seems backwards, no talent gets everything mean while talent gets nothing. it is very frustrating, and I totally get it there is a lot of us here but coming into second life and getting into photography just seems like a waste at this point. 

[Rowan Amore]

If you're post pictures of your avatar, try posting in these sections...

https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/405992-how-does-your-avatar-look-today/

https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/456871-what-does-your-avatar-look-like-now/page/140/#comment-2568720

ETA...just looking, I gave a like to your photos you posted there earlier today.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Rowan Amore

[Ayashe Ninetails]

7 minutes ago, xXJupiterHeightsXx Starchild said:

maybe some could help me better understand why?

Hmm. My entire Second Life is styling avatars and photography, so I understand where you're coming from. That said, I don't put any thought whatsoever into follower counts or likes. My stuff always flies under the radar and I'm totally cool with that. I'm assuming you're talking about Flickr here? Just pay no attention to it. Easier said than done, I know, but the hobby is rewarding in and of itself. You don't need anyone's approval, as long as doing what you're doing brings you joy. I highly doubt you're doing anything wrong. It sounds like you're putting in a lot of work!

There are tons of bloggers on Flickr who come with their own fans and followings and follow meee and I'll follow youuu and honestly, photography isn't really a competition (unless you enter competitions, of course, which I rarely ever bother with). Just keep putting yourself out there, engage with other art you see and enjoy, and you'll eventually build your own little circle of fans who are more than willing to toss you a like or two, naturally and organically.

If you're looking for a nice community to share photos with in a supportive, chill environment where all that stuff doesn't matter, post in the Your Avatar subforum here (we've got at least two threads for avatar photos), and the Art, Music and Photography subforum.

[Rowan Amore]

3 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Hmm. My entire Second Life is styling avatars and photography, so I understand where you're coming from. That said, I don't put any thought whatsoever into follower counts or likes. My stuff always flies under the radar and I'm totally cool with that. I'm assuming you're talking about Flickr here? Just pay no attention to it. Easier said than done, I know, but the hobby is rewarding in and of itself. You don't need anyone's approval, as long as doing what you're doing brings you joy. I highly doubt you're doing anything wrong. It sounds like you're putting in a lot of work!

There are tons of bloggers on Flickr who come with their own fans and followings and follow meee and I'll follow youuu and honestly, photography isn't really a competition (unless you enter competitions, of course, which I rarely ever bother with). Just keep putting yourself out there, engage with other art you see and enjoy, and you'll eventually build your own little circle of fans who are more than willing to toss you a like or two, naturally and organically.

If you're looking for a nice community to share photos with in a supportive, chill environment where all that stuff doesn't matter, post in the Your Avatar subforum here (we've got at least two threads for avatar photos), and the Art, Music and Photography subforum.

I actually stopped putting my Flickr photos in any groups.  All it got me were tons of add requests from bloggers looking for more followers.  Most of the people I've added in the last few years, I met in the forums. 

I'm flying under the radar right with you.

[Stephanie Misfit]

23 minutes ago, xXJupiterHeightsXx Starchild said:

maybe some could help me better understand why? I noticed within the art and photography of second life it seems those who put way less effort into pictures and avatar appearance have a higher likelihood of more reactions, following and comments, meanwhile someone like me who spends well over 7 hours on a photoshoot from start to finish who very well cleans up and cares about detail yet the follows, reactions and comments are nowhere to be found, personally it's a *****ty feeling as someone who works really hard on photography and puts in the effort but in no return is not interacted with but on the other hand someone with no skills or a nice looking avatar gets to what I can see full fame, sure one can argue about what makes a picture what it is, colors, detail, outfits, setting, lighting, background etc. maybe someone could shed light on what I'm doing wrong but it just seems backwards, no talent gets everything mean while talent gets nothing. it is very frustrating, and I totally get it there is a lot of us here but coming into second life and getting into photography just seems like a waste at this point. 

Are you talking about here in the forums, or on Flickr? I notice a lot of photos on Flickr that are completely unedited, very average pictures getting favourites in the hundreds, while some talented SL photographers get just a handful of favourites for their photos. I think on Flickr, if you amass followers and favourite lots of other people's photos, you can end up getting a lot of favourites on your own pictures. But I can't be certain, I don't play that game, my favourites are a carefully curated collection of photos that I want to look at again, and the people I follow are either creators or people whose work I am interested in seeing more of.

You say you spent 7 hours on a photo. I am assuming you enjoyed that process, or you would not have done it. SL photography is meant to be fun, a creative outlet. That is the whole point. Not gathering likes or favourites. If you are doing it for attention, not for the fun, maybe rethink whether it is a hobby for you.

 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

4 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I actually stopped putting my Flickr photos in any groups.  All it got me were tons of add requests from bloggers looking for more followers.  Most of the people I've added in the last few years, I met in the forums. 

I'm flying under the radar right with you.

Omg, right? The group spam some engage in is intense on there! How do you even add a single photo to 400+ groups? That's got to be automated somehow! 😂

I am extremely selective with that and only toss a photo into a max of maybe 10-20 relevant groups. If anything, I just focus on a handful of photography and fashion groups, and target the creator pools. Some creators are super nice and will leave nice comments on photos, too! 

[Rolig Loon]

Without sounding too flippant, my gut reaction is that many of the people who post photos are not claiming to be great photographers; they are in it to take interesting snapshot to share with a small circle of the regulars who post in those threads.  If you are hoping for recognition as a master photographer or are expecting critiques from professionals, you're in the wrong place.  There are excellent photographers in SL and there are people with true artistic talent, but you are going to have to find them patiently over time. Gather your own group of serious enthusiasts.  Meanwhile, don't be too hard on the forum regulars who are there to enjoy photos in a more relaxed way and support each other as hobby photographers.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Rolig Loon

[Rowan Amore]

10 minutes ago, Stephanie Misfit said:

Are you talking about here in the forums, or on Flickr? I notice a lot of photos on Flickr that are completely unedited, very average pictures getting favourites in the hundreds, while some talented SL photographers get just a handful of favourites for their photos. I think on Flickr, if you amass followers and favourite lots of other people's photos, you can end up getting a lot of favourites on your own pictures. But I can't be certain, I don't play that game, my favourites are a carefully curated collection of photos that I want to look at again, and the people I follow are either creators or people whose work I am interested in seeing more of.

You say you spent 7 hours on a photo. I am assuming you enjoyed that process, or you would not have done it. SL photography is meant to be fun, a creative outlet. That is the whole point. Not gathering likes or favourites. If you are doing it for attention, not for the fun, maybe rethink whether it is a hobby for you.

 

There are sites where you can purchase a package for Flickr followers.and favs.  Crazy, huh?

[Stephanie Misfit]

29 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

Without sounding too flippant, my gut reaction is that many of the people who post photos are not claiming to be great photographers; they are in it to take interesting snapshot to share with a small circle of the regulars who post in those threads.  If you are hoping for recognition as a master photographer or are expecting critiques from professionals, you're in the wrong place.  There are excellent photographers in SL and there are people with true artistic talent, but you are going to have to find them patiently over time. Gather your own group of serious enthusiasts.  Meanwhile, don't be too hard on the forum regulars who are there to enjoy photos in a more relaxed way and support each other as hobby photographers.

Yes, I definitely agree with this, as far as forum users go. This is not the place to come to have your artistic talent recognised, and you are just as likely to have your photo praised for being original and funny, or showcasing a cool outfit, as you are for any technical merit.

[Ceka Cianci]

Myself, I don't really browse around on Flickr.. I've had my account there since not long after they started up.. The only reason I got it was because of being able to upload and link from.. I don't even remember if it was even that social of a place back then and did followers and things like that..

A lot of the pictures I take in second life now get sent to private so that only I can see them and where ever I link them too.. Some I leave out but really, it's still just a place to link from and upload to..

Honestly, I wouldn't spend all those free time hours, days and sometimes a week or more on something, unless I loved doing it  and was something that was rewarding me and exciting me while I was putting everything together..

Reactions are nice no matter how many there are, but honestly, the whole experience has to be exciting and feel good and worth it and Be the best part it all. Not the amount of likes it gets from flickr drive by likers..

 

 

[Ceka Cianci]

2 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

There are sites where you can purchase a package for Flickr followers.and favs.  Crazy, huh?

That's just crazy to think that people would buy something like that.. Likes and follows must bump to somewhere to make people want to do that sort of thing..

 

[diamond Marchant]

4 hours ago, xXJupiterHeightsXx Starchild said:

maybe some could help me better understand why?

my two cents...

1. For most of us, we should only do things in SL that bring us joy. You should be doing photography because you enjoy it.

2. There are only two people you need to please, yourself and your client, should you have one.

3. An image should stand on its own merits. How it was made or how long it took to make it is mostly irrelevant.

4. Edit, edit, and edit. NEVER exhibit anything that is not your best work.

5. Try not to care about arbitrary social media metrics. Never enter photo competitions.

6. Find current and historic photographers that resonate with you and study their work. For example, I found William Eggleston to be very influencing.

Edited March 8, 2023 by diamond Marchant

[xXSuicidalIdolXx Candycane]

okay so this goes out to everyone who has responded, thank you. you all have giving me some Steller advice to move forward with! I suppose I worded the first post a bit weirdly and noticed some comments in a way think all I care about is views, comments etc. which is not true and here is my point of view to help round out what I am aiming for and please note all advice giving has helped me already. so, coming from someone who is very much into real life photography as you can find a link in my profile. the same happened to my real-life pictures as I am a drone pilot and got into that hobby of arial photography. my Facebook page has no comments or likes or interactions and the same has followed with my second life pictures, which is why I sounded off in my post by getting discourage, likes, comments and follows are not what I generally care about however I am no expert or have gone to school for photography but instead picked this up as passion of mine and learned what I can do within second life and real world photography. I very much enjoy the community and what it offers but when barley getting any interaction from my posts I often wonder if I have done something wrong? is my work good? etc not sure if creators feel that way or if it's just me, the comments everyone has put down makes sense, but I guess being a human, an artist or hobbiest certain things go through my mind and when I hear nothing, I think sometimes is what I am doing even enjoyable for others. the comments though are what I needed to hear in support as this is the first time I'm coming out and seeking advice, guidance and support.

[ValKalAstra]

There is a bit of a bitter truth to "success" in virtual photography (or any creative endeavour for that matter) that it's so much more about the social game than it is about the actual work.

Take Flickr interactions. They're almost exclusively a factor of outside influences. First being how many groups you post it in. There's a lot of spam going on there where I see burly muscle guys post in groups for sexy ladies and likewise. Yet that spam works. It puts more eyeballs on the image.

The second thing is the silly Flickr handshake. Follow someone and they usually follow you back. Like their pictures and you get yours liked back. That sounds simple enough right? Well it's more than that, some will absolutely never click your image unless you've interacted with theirs and I'm never quite sure they genuinely liked it or just randomly clicked to play the social game.

Third factor is something silly like the time you post it. I've seen pictures posted at European Times get absolutely left in the dust. You get more interactions during American Times, ideally give or take centered on population hubs. SL in general just seems very us centric.

Fourth factor is luck and randomness. A good friend of mine who makes amazing pictures randomly had one of hers go through the roof. Like she averages around 400 interactions and that single image suddenly went to 6000 interactions over the couple of a few days and we never found out what had made it pop off.

The good news is that if you crave actual interaction, there are ways to get it. People already mentioned the subforums here. There are many people that try to be encouraging and interact with your works there. Another source are photography groups in world. Something like naturally naughty (one of the most supportive groups I know, nevermind the name), Sunny's or for example the group of the Focus photo magazine. They often have interesting discussions going on and you can see people help each other. They'd be your best bet.

Last but not least, pick up photography friends. Most in world put their Flickr in their profile picks. Find someone you like, compliment them, reach out and if chemistry is alright, you found someone to share the creative passion with!

[Bela Beleza]

Maybe there are 2 main ways to make pics in SL. One is about a snapshot, the other is about arrangement. When being in a roleplay or anyways interacting with environment and people then its a challange to make pics "shot from the hip". This includes, when I do that, lower graphic settings because of the perfomance issues i would have otherwise. The technical quality is often low. Depending on the success (composition) of such it's worth the time to pretty it up with photoshop but due to lazyness I do that seldom. The second way is the arrangement, which uses a mix of full setting of graphics, technical skills (composition, lighting and such) and afterwork with PS or so. Sometimes i like to try so, too, and its fun. I admire the results of others when i see them on Flickr i.e and despite its real good handicraft showing with I also see seldom real originality but often a kinda streamlined or mainstream-style - the second life style. I often can not see the real second life in them no more. But the beauty of such pics is nonetheless breathtaking. Yet - i do not strike to follow that mainstream. Though I let myself get inspired. Since I do not even strike to be professional -  i have no pressure and all is easy going.

[Kalegthepsionicist]

@xXJupiterHeightsXx Starchildpeople like and follow because you not because your picture . well this happen with flickr SL. my partner flickr get more view than mine , while all pic is done by me, I manage her flickr. because I am fat boy and she is beautiful woman.. grin

[Bela Beleza]

1 hour ago, diamond Marchant said:

Never enter photo competitions.

Had to grin. A witty and eye-twinkling advice.

If - i believe its better to enter competitions on small Second life groups where one is already known, so that is not a real competition but a social activity amongst "friends".

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

If the likes for image quality (composition, topic, technical, originality, whatever), let's call this 'A', are, say 10, then the likes you get from submitting your image to as many Flickr groups as you can, let's call this 'B', are 1000.

If A costs you many hours and B costs you less than under an hour, and likes is all you are after, then the most efficient strategy is to forgo effort A and focus mostly on B.

I have a little plaque above my bed that says: "To hell with likes."

Edited March 8, 2023 by Arduenn Schwartzman

[Alwin Alcott]

1 hour ago, xXJupiterHeightsXx Starchild said:

 I guess being a human, an artist or hobbiest certain things go through my mind and when I hear nothing, I think sometimes is what I am doing even enjoyable for others.

your problem isn't your pics but your confidence in what you do.


 

[ValKalAstra]

1 minute ago, Alwin Alcott said:

your problem isn't your pics but your confidence in what you do.

That's not necessarily an unusual trait for creatives though. People put something out where they don't know if people will like it. While in theory they (well, we since I create too) should create for themselves and for the art of it, the reality is that we all crave that interaction element too. Creative endeavours are a way of reaching out to others, a means to socialise around something you made.

Posting a work with no response is like entering a room to awkward stares and silence. It doesn't feel good and makes you question yourself. While your self worth as a creator should not be based around the social game, getting nothing can be sobering. Creativity is social, not solitary.

 

[Orwar]

   How to get a lot of views and likes on your pics in social media: follow everyone (and hope people follow you in return), give your pictures as much exposure as you possibly can (put it in all the Flickr groups you can, link to the pic in every photography related in-world group you can find - preferably on repeat every now and then so that people that weren't online or paying attention might now catch it), put every conceivable tag you can on your pictures to increase the likelihood of it showing up in searches. Repeat year in and year out, on a daily basis, to ensure that you're constantly funnelling people towards your page, and if all else fails, buy the views and likes to trick people into thinking you're a successful photographer that they should be following. Also just make as much noise as you can, compliment people's pics when they share them and comment on every pic you come across to maximise engagement. 

   At no point in the process you will find yourself needing to actually take a 'good' picture!

[Scylla Rhiadra]

13 hours ago, Rolig Loon said:

Meanwhile, don't be too hard on the forum regulars who are there to enjoy photos in a more relaxed way and support each other as hobby photographers.

This. 

Sure, there are photos that are technically or aesthetically "better" than others.

But there are no "bad" photos, because a photograph can mean so much more than mere technique and aesthetics. It can be a record of love or friendship, or capture a memorable moment. It can even just be a self-affirmation. They all have value, even if that may not reside in something that is evident to all viewers.

Everyone who takes a pic is expressing their creativity and something about themselves.

And that's worth celebrating in its own right.

[MrsSeren]

35 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

This. 

Sure, there are photos that are technically or aesthetically "better" than others.

But there are no "bad" photos, because a photograph can mean so much more than mere technique and aesthetics. It can be a record of love or friendship, or capture a memorable moment. It can even just be a self-affirmation. They all have value, even if that may not reside in something that is evident to all viewers.

Everyone who takes a pic is expressing their creativity and something about themselves.

And that's worth celebrating in its own right.

This ^^^^^^ 100%; you indirectly helped me learn this but then you know this.   

[Shiloh Lyric]

If you're talking about Flickr, it seems to be mostly a popularity game. I've been posting photos for years, and while they're not the greatest, they're better than some...again, I've been doing it for years. I have some photos which have broken 100 faves, out of the thousands of "followers" I have and "follow" back, but most average around 60 faves. Other people have hundreds. 

But, honestly, I don't "play the game" very well. If you comment and fave others a lot, you tend to get reciprocicity and more comments and faves back. I just like taking photos since it's my main SL creative outlet, and looking at the pretty photos from others. However, I'm never going to be "popular" on Flickr, so I tell myself that the faves I do get are from people who actually like my "work".

[Janet Voxel]

It’s hard to say what’s going on without seeing your work.