MARKETPLACE BROKEN AGAIN

[Arwen Serpente]

3 minutes ago, Yeya Zuta said:

Does this means that old big brands will always have advantage, and new brands have no change on MP..... OR very old products (that use to sell well) from like 15 years ago will come up more?   🤔

I wonder the same thing. Right now, when using search, it "appears" that older products do populate the top spots.

[Caren Jewell]

5 minutes ago, Arwen Serpente said:

I wonder the same thing. Right now, when using search, it "appears" that older products do populate the top spots.

and realy much demos . .old demos for 0 L and old classic Clothes

Edited April 10, 2023 by Caren Jewell

[Love Zhaoying]

Theoretically, today's modern-day search users should be experts at search engines from searching for detailed umm...sensitive materials.  Example, "Beach fun" NOT dwarves

 

[Yeya Zuta]

Theoretically it would be good to have a "Non-Neutrality of Search Engines"  It's seems to be a bias thing to me. 

[Yeya Zuta]

18 hours ago, Caren Jewell said:

and realy much demos . .old demos for 0 L and old classic Clothes

You can exclude demo in search Caren. 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Yeya Zuta

[Polenth Yue]

9 hours ago, Billysue Bluebird said:

Yes if you have a good store and you sell 500 different houses, change the name of all 500 houses to just "House" I bet you would make alot of money

This is basically how it works, but likely wouldn't make you a lot of money. The top hits for "mushrooms" are sellers who just used that single word. However, it's debatable how often people search for just that word and then buy something. The broad search is unlikely to bring up what they want, so they'll add a colour or style word. The optimum title for most things is going to be at least two words, because it needs enough keywords to hit the most common searches that result in a purchase. Mine are between two and four words after edits.

As a general comment, I know people are resistant to rewriting listings, but they are not going to roll back to the outdated software they were using. You can file all the tickets you want, but the only thing that will make your sales start again is reworking your listings. You don't need to test everything, because some of us are doing it for you, so you know you need to cut down titles and put keywords into features. You don't need to do them all at once. Start with a couple of former bestsellers and work from there.

[Arwen Serpente]

2 minutes ago, Polenth Yue said:

As a general comment, I know people are resistant to rewriting listings, but they are not going to roll back to the outdated software they were using. You can file all the tickets you want, but the only thing that will make your sales start again is reworking your listings. You don't need to test everything, because some of us are doing it for you, so you know you need to cut down titles and put keywords into features. You don't need to do them all at once. Start with a couple of former bestsellers and work from there.

Polenth, I know you are being helpful and optimistic and realistic, but please acknowledge that revising listings is a huge task. Especially for Merchants with hundreds and thousands of products. This isn't about "resistance" it is about man-hours. Please don't underestimate that.  We do not have clear, specific instructions from LL about revisions - the factors are the same factors they always were, just weighted differently (and we don't know the specific weightings - that's their "secret sauce"). We've always been encouraged to have clear titles, fill in features, etc. Their instructions have not changed. When I see specific instructions like "5 words in a title" "always include a color if relevant", or "use full sentances /phrases/single words (who knows) in features", then I will have more confidence about revisions. To start modifying listings while LL continues to "tweek" is really a waste of time. When the dust settles and there is clear direction, revisions may be possible.

I do appreciate the testing done by individuals and posted here. It is helpful. It is also only directional. Changing a thousand listings based on a few Merchant comments in the Forums is not a task I am confident will pay benefits. When I started to see the advice here in the Forum, I tested a few revisions - with no change, no positive result.

[Love Zhaoying]

19 minutes ago, Polenth Yue said:

The top hits for "mushrooms" are sellers who just used that single word.

This makes sense, from a "relevance" perspective.

[Caren Jewell]

When I rename 500 Houses in "House" it makes no sense for me cause a Jeans is not only a Jeans, they got Names inside like by me with Dispenser they got special names like all the time. I can not realy follow atm how I should change them but I be willing to find it out and test. The Point was never that changes are not important or new software or or .. the Point is why should this be in one of the best Seasons Valentine/Easter/Spring like Xmas of the year. This changes/updates needs Time and when I know that this Update needs Weeks to jump back in the regular Sales, why I don't do this in Summer. Why must we try to explain here what is now realy good for us and how can we change things - this is Info that I like to got from the Team BEFORE an Update comes and that we got a chance to respond and maybe try to explain in one open Post together. I can not make an Update and let the User then alone over weeks, sorry

Edited April 10, 2023 by Caren Jewell

[Happy Toshi]

I just hope all said and done as they tweek works out for the best. Who knows maybe gets rid of super old stuff. Or you are better off where you started. Honestly I try to update even my old stuff in furniture... Give people free updates of it even.. Just added 70 new bento poses to 3 couches that I did 2 years ago and physics...  Renaming a 100 items right now is sorta boarderline freaking out... 

[Polenth Yue]

15 minutes ago, Arwen Serpente said:

Polenth, I know you are being helpful and optimistic and realistic, but please acknowledge that revising listings is a huge task. Especially for Merchants with hundreds and thousands of products. This isn't about "resistance" it is about man-hours. Please don't underestimate that.

I'm not an optimist. If I was, I'd tell you to hold tight, do nothing, and they will roll out a fix that will make things just like they used to be. I'm a pessimist, which is why I'm saying that they won't be rolling anything back. They might tweak things a bit, but this is how it works now.

I'm aware it's a lot of work. It's taken a lot of time for me to do what I've been doing, particularly as I signed up for more events to cover the lack of marketplace sales. But it's only worth waiting if you think a miracle is around the corner or that someone is coming to help you. I'm a cynical pessimist, so I don't believe in either of those things and I won't be waiting for them. I also haven't seen any suggestions of action that would work better than what I've been doing, though if I did, I'd roll them into my plan.

I do understand that optimists tend to struggle more when faced with something that is ending badly. It was a shock and they didn't have a plan. But now is as good a time as any to make that plan and start acting on it. If nothing else, shop and hop applications will open up soon, which will help some people over the gap.

[Arwen Serpente]

I agree with you that a full rollback is not going to happen. I've acknowledged in my post earlier today. We come at this from different angles which is fine. Your preference is to act now on your best instincts. Mine is to watch and see where this goes, and then adjust. Different strokes for different folks...

[Wulfie Reanimator]

5 hours ago, Arwen Serpente said:

Glad you're optimistic, Yeya. Sadly and obviously, I'm not so optimistic. I agree with you regarding "intent". I don't think the changes are malicious, but they are aware of the negative impact - they indicate it in their post several times:

"We recently made changes to the Marketplace that had some results that our community was not expecting."

"When using product search Your product may not be appearing in the same position as it used to in relevance sort"

"When viewing a Marketplace store page or the product search with relevance sort enabled and no search term, you will get unexpected results." 

"If your items do not fall into the top 50k they will all be ranked the same. This is why your best selling sort may not match your best selling reports. In short, your items will only have a sales rank if they fall into the top 50k."

They know there will be winners and losers with these changes.  It isn't so much dependent on the size of the store, but how an item fares with the new factor weighting, and if a product breaks into the top 50k. As far as they can report so far, it is successful and increasing their revenue.  So some Merchants are winning, we just don't know which ones and how large or small they are.

They refer to future "tweeks" which yes, means a work in progress, but to me a tweek is a small move, not what many here have been asking for.

Edited to add: If they do have big changes planned, I hope they will communicate to the community before making them. They tend to like the "ta da!" of implementing change and announcing after.  Communication from LL over the past 6 weeks has been very poor, leading to the post "What the heck happened to my Marketplace store".

Why did you leave out literally the next sentence and paragraph from your quotes?

Quote

In short, your items will only have a sales rank if they fall into the top 50k. Best selling sort has always functioned this way and has not changed.

With that in mind, we are currently working on a change to allow best selling to now index each merchant’s store individually instead of just the top 50k items. This will allow shoppers to see any creator’s best selling items when viewing a store page. We hope this will be a better long-term solution than the previous relevance sort and clearly communicate to shoppers what are the most popular products in a creator’s store. 

https://community.secondlife.com/blogs/entry/13127-what-the-heck-happened-to-my-marketplace-store/

Edited April 10, 2023 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Arwen Serpente]

Because those quotes went to the point that LL knew there would be negative impacts.

It's a good quote and speaks to the hope that they will be able to find a way to improve listing rankings by store. So it does show that they want to correct the errors of the current changes. Having said that,  I'm skeptical of how they will do the change since they want to minimize older items popping. Those items have long histories as reflected in the Best Selling Merchant report, so older items could be seen first, just by virtue of how long they have been selling and not how popular they currently are. I can only speak for myself, but the original Relevance algorithm worked well.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Arwen Serpente
removed repetitive phrase

[Wulfie Reanimator]

32 minutes ago, Arwen Serpente said:

Because those quotes went to the point that LL knew there would be negative impacts.

It's a good quote and speaks to the hope that they will be able to find a way to improve listing rankings by store. So it does show that they want to correct the errors of the current changes. Having said that,  I'm skeptical of how they will do the change since they want to minimize older items popping and for each individual store. Those items have long histories as reflected in the Best Selling Merchant report. I can only speak for myself, but the original Relevance algorithm worked well.

I think you're reading way too much into that blog post and misinterpreting it.

Quoting that "top 50K products" part while leaving out the last sentence is very misleading, since it's what we've always had. There are no winners or losers there. Not new ones anyway. They will be fixing that for store views.

The "newest first" default sorting is what has increased sales, compared to the previous "relevance" sorting (during the past 2 months). There are only winners there, because clearly (and as they explained) "relevance" doesn't really work in a single-store view when you're not searching for anything. They will be fixing that for store views.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Wulfie Reanimator

[RoxanaSaphire]

You can fix the search issue by renaming all your products to just one key word. I did that an appear with nearly all of my items in number 1 search page if someone searches "shape lelutka legacy".

1. But that did NOT change the fact that i nearly dont sell anything since beginning of march and i wonder why 🤷‍♀️

2. If you name all your items the same you cannot seperate your products anymore in your products list, cause they have all the same name. Here would be an addtional note needed. Now i have to click on every item to see what it is 💀

3. The problem with the not working adds is still existing. The last adds had nearly zero clicks - so i have no chance to promote my stuff in any way. If course i did not buy any new adds from MP. Why should i? This all is totally absurd.

Edited April 10, 2023 by RoxanaSaphire

[Caren Jewell]

15 minutes ago, RoxanaSaphire said:

You can fix the search issue by renaming all your products to just one key word. I did that an appear with nearly all of my items in number 1 search page if someone searches "shape lelutka legacy".

1. But that did NOT change the fact that i nearly dont sell anything since beginning of march and i wonder why 🤷‍♀️

2. If you name all your items the same you cannot seperate your products anymore in your products list, cause they have all the same name. Here would be an addtional note needed. Now i have to click on every item to see what it is 💀

3. The problem with the not working adds is still existing. The last adds had nearly zero clicks - so i have no chance to promote my stuff in any way. If course i did not buy any new adds from MP. Why should i? This all is totally absurd.

....

yeah this was what I mean - like 500 Houses with the Name "House" or .. 500 Jeans "jeans"  .. nothing is anylonger different and to sort it out is a hell  .. this can not be the right way. It must be another way too but I ask all now,  is this our Part to make it more clear how we should change it and what can help and makes more sense for the lists? No, this should come from the MP Team before the Update comes or very fast after finish cause this is their Idea and they thought about it how it can be. What they told us after long time was not perfect for all and make no sense too - for some maybe yes but should I change now my Products in name with hope for a "maybe"? ... I'm so sorry for you Roxana but this seems is not the right way and I changed some Stuff like you today and yes, it shows nothing different. An Update make sense when all have a good way in future to live with this. But not when an Update send me back in the year 2009 when I start with my Store.

 

Edit: btw Spidey Linden closed my Jira today with the same old copy/paste words (no eta blablabla) and People addet there today they comments, so it was a running Jira. Not longer important for them - again. I stop to open anything from now .. I be tired about this all.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Caren Jewell

[RoxanaSaphire]

Im with you Caren. Of course its not the right way, but i just tried cause i am so desperate. And even when i appear on top 1 page i dont sell stuff. Thats very strange.

I also dont know what to do.

 

[Fergie Finesmith]

They closed my JIRA with the same old copy paste text....  they don't care

[Caren Jewell]

6 hours ago, Fergie Finesmith said:

They closed my JIRA with the same old copy paste text....  they don't care

Mine too .. "no Eta.. blablabla" the same words like all weeks from Spidey Linden

[Flea Yatsenko]

No offense but if you're doing SEO, app store optimization, etc, you're always chasing secret changes they make, redoing listings, etc. This stuff is difficult and a lot of work. You are going to have to make changes to your listings if you want to be competitive. You will have to do a/b testing. Search before really sucked, it can be a lot better now. But it's going to take work from merchants and buyers to get things where they belong.

Ranking in something like Google search is endless changes and optimization and all sorts of work. In fact if you have a blog you're probably spending more time with SEO than actually making content. I never expect slmp to get like that, but I think a lot of people were actually selling stuff because relevance was messed up and it's all they could find. I know I've always sold stuff and wondered why people are buying it because it's so outdated. And honestly I think it's because it's all they can find.

[Polenth Yue]

19 hours ago, RoxanaSaphire said:

You can fix the search issue by renaming all your products to just one key word. I did that an appear with nearly all of my items in number 1 search page if someone searches "shape lelutka legacy".

1. But that did NOT change the fact that i nearly dont sell anything since beginning of march and i wonder why 🤷‍♀️

2. If you name all your items the same you cannot seperate your products anymore in your products list, cause they have all the same name. Here would be an addtional note needed. Now i have to click on every item to see what it is 💀

3. The problem with the not working adds is still existing. The last adds had nearly zero clicks - so i have no chance to promote my stuff in any way. If course i did not buy any new adds from MP. Why should i? This all is totally absurd.

I didn't rename all my products "mushrooms" and I don't recommend that anyone does something like that. Cut excess words, but leave enough words for the title to make sense to a customer and for your products to look like different products. Your products should not all have identical titles. Otherwise, you can end up at the top of the search, but a customer has no idea what sets the products apart and therefore doesn't click on them. You will also miss out on searches that are more specific, because the system can't see relevant keywords.

The obvious way for shapes to rise up search is to use words that describe the actual shape, rather than giving them names like they're people. Most of your competitors are selling Sally Anne, Susan and Jane. So sell curvy, sexy, realistic, thin or whatever else would describe your shape. These are the words people will actually use in a search when they want a certain shape. They're the words that should get priority in the title.

Also put all those keywords and more into the features section. The listing I checked had hardly anything in that section.

But I can see another issue here, as I tried your search and didn't see your products at first. That's because my default was general and your products are set to moderate. Your competitors tagged their products as general, so they appear in more searches than you. You want your listings to be at the lowest age rating possible for the type of product.

[RoxanaSaphire]

Your are right with all what you say.

I did that just as a test, not as solution forever. Before that MP issue appeared,  i had of course a particular description like you are suggesting.

The age rating is made by linden. Of course i want to reach as much people as possible, so i set G-Rating. But Linden does change them to M. There is nothing what i can do about that.

Edited April 11, 2023 by RoxanaSaphire

[Rowan Amore]

28 minutes ago, RoxanaSaphire said:

Your are right with all what you say.

I did that just as a test, not as solution forever. Before that MP issue appeared,  i had of course a particular description like you are suggesting.

The age rating is made by linden. Of course i want to reach as much people as possible, so i set G-Rating. But Linden does change them to M. There is nothing what i can do about that.

There's 82,000+ shapes under General.  Wonder why they rated yours Moderate.

[RoxanaSaphire]

26 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

There's 82,000+ shapes under General.  Wonder why they rated yours Moderate.

I also dont know. Maybe cause i do generally bikini shots, but also mosty creators do. I changed now all to "G" again. Lets see if they change it again back to "M"