Bring back Ratings!! - A Proposal

[Kathlen Onyx]

JUST NO

[Ayashe Ninetails]

18 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

- Why would we exclude Basic members from getting a L$ award for Ratings?  I simply do not understand.  Yes, I get that if this is based on stipends, only Premium users get stipends.  But I do not understand why you would design a system that explicitly does NOT award Basic members.

Just to clarify, my older account (2005) still gets a stipend and I've never been premium. It's possible for us basics to have them, if we're ancient enough.

As for the rating system, I don't even remember the old one. Either I wasn't around when it happened or I didn't even notice it.

[EliseAnne85]

44 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

We could start a club!

And, have a party!

[Rowan Amore]

Someone would inevitably find a way to get BBs to vote for them.  Since it's public info, it'll be added to some website.  🤣

[Drake1 Nightfire]

27 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Sounds a lot like a Social Credit score which I think would potentially suck for residents but might be great for Creators and other sorts of commercial interests within S/L.

And could easily be gamed.. Offer your premium customers a discount if they up vote your store. Just another way to separate the basic users from the premium ones. Caste system at its finest. 

[Ceka Cianci]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

I went with "ratings" in an attempt to remind people of the absolute insanity we used to get up to in the quest to get ratings .. however it turns out I'm just old and few here were in SL back then.

I get that most of us on the forums have ended up bubble babies in one form or another, but that's not why we joined SL or what we found fun at the starft.

Addressing that particular infectious malaise is a much bigger long term problem.

Honestly, Those ratings weren't a big part of my SL back then, they were pretty much nonexistent..I never heard of ratings parties or social gatherings because of them..

All I can really remember of them is someones saying we had them.. I might have asked what that button was for or something and that pretty much being the end of it..

I have no ties to the good old days or bad old days of what those profile ratings were about, because it wasn't very hard to make money back then for new residents..So they had zero impact on my second life back then.. I remember vote boxes more than I do profile ratings.

My thoughts on rating each other  or liking or whatever has nothing to do with being a bubble baby of yester year or disliking something from the past..

It has everything to do with how people act today because of a like button and how likes are so important or thumbs up or someones rating is so important to others that it becomes another avenue for peer pressure.

I'd much rather someone IM me if they have something to say about my profile or me..  I don't want to start to get IM's of people asking me to rate their profile..

My thoughts have nothing to do with back then and or being stuck in my ways or being some sort of, bubble baby.. It has everything to do with today and how people act  because of Likes or ratings and  the lengths they will go to, to get them..

I would rather Opt  in to something like that..

 

 

 

 

 

[Love Zhaoying]

I remember "Vote for Me!" on some clickable public signs (like at or near an Infohub).

Not sure if that was related to the old Ratings.

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Love Zhaoying

[Pixie Kobichenko]

There’s an episode of Black Mirror that explores social ratings (it doesn’t end well).  

Edited February 6, 2023 by Pixie Kobichenko

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Sounds a lot like a Social Credit score which I think would potentially suck for residents but might be great for Creators and other sorts of commercial interests within S/L.

This is an interesting observation!

I guess once "Social Credit scores" take hold in mainstream society (not just in some countries), it won't be a big deal.

[Coffee Pancake]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I copied a few of the items I merely do not comprehend.  Just letting you know!

Bring back ratings as a premium members perk.

- Why Premium members only?

Why would we exclude Basic members from getting a L$ award for Ratings? 

The problem that killed the original system was it allowed someone with enough time and patience to effectively go infinite at no cost.

Giving basic accounts free money is a dead idea that can never come back. This is what killed the old system, people would roll alts, get them boosted to reputation necessary for max stipend and move on to the next.

This is also why the in world sources of free L$ are tiny and require absurd amounts of contrivance.

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

But I do not understand why you would design a system that explicitly does NOT award Basic members.

because the money here isn't candy crush gems, it all has to come from somewhere

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Sounds a lot like a Social Credit score which I think would potentially suck for residents but might be great for Creators and other sorts of commercial interests within S/L.

The system is capped at 100 points earned per resident per month, the point being it shouldn't be hard to obtain in it's entirety  every month. It also takes a long time for someone to get miles ahead. It could also be reset to zero every new year and people get a sticker or something.

13 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I guess once "Social Credit scores" take hold in mainstream society (not just in some countries), it won't be a big deal.

Love .. 

Social Credit systems are a fact of life everywhere in the world.

In the west, it's called "Credit Score" .. a poor credit score really messes with the ability to participate in capitalist society.

In SL we have account age

Edited February 6, 2023 by Coffee Pancake

[Ceka Cianci]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I copied a few of the items I merely do not comprehend.  Just letting you know!

Bring back ratings as a premium members perk.

- Why Premium members only?

Premium is required to give ratings.

- Maybe I misread this - I thought it means, "require all Premium users to provide Ratings".  Upon re-reading however, I suppose it means "only Premium members can participate". ETA: But..why?

Basics can still receive ratings with no finical gain (100% of 0 is still 0), perhaps some other free perk ???

- Why would we exclude Basic members from getting a L$ award for Ratings?  I simply do not understand.  Yes, I get that if this is based on stipends, only Premium users get stipends.  But I do not understand why you would design a system that explicitly does NOT award Basic members.

 

If this ever did come about, it would be nice if they could cash in all of their rep points for lindens. But only if they became, Basic+, Premium or PP+..

Maybe something where their points don't reset and  doing a, monthly, quarterly or annually membership, will get them more of a percentage for their points, depending on the length of the membership.. Annually giving the full amount  collected..

At least they would have the added incentive and benefit of upgrading.

I honestly don't think they will do it though, because even back then they picked it apart removing  things from it a piece at a time until they just got rid of it..

But then again, it's not the same lindens as back then so, who knows.

 

 

[Istelathis]

26 minutes ago, Pixie Kobichenko said:

There’s an episode of Black Mirror that explores social ratings (it doesn’t end well).  

That was a great episode, a bit scary and worrisome of one potential future.  Hopefully nothing like that ever actually happens in most of our countries, and we remain free from such a rating system, although some sites have them implemented already.  They exist for a lot of workers as well, which is kind of invasive, but thankfully such scores are not yet provided publicly in a universal app and mandated by the government.  Further, they do not become the basis of all of our lives like in that episode.  I could just imagine if LL were to embrace this in ways that were detrimental to our enjoyment in SL, as a new feature for land owners.  Must have an approval rating of 75% or higher to gain access to various parcels or regions 🤣   Not that I think they would actually do that, but rather just having some fun with the overall theme of social creds in SL and a dystopian world.  

I think we could alleviate such worry by keeping the points hidden, even from the user.  No one knows their scores, until the end of the month when they are provided an email telling them how many points they had earned if they opted in, along with whatever extra $L they had earned.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Istelathis

[Coffee Pancake]

1 hour ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Just another way to separate the basic users from the premium ones. Caste system at its finest. 

SL implements capitalism and has a 4 tier caste system before we even get to in-world social hierarchies, of which there are many.

Even this very forum has reputation points and post counts.

Strip everything away that differentiates one users participation from another and we end up with 4chan.

[Lindal Kidd]

I was initially in favor of this idea when Coffee proposed it. After all, anything that would encourage more parties, and maybe a little $L for folks, sounds good.

Then I saw people comparing it to China's "social credits" system, which I thoroughly despise as capital E EEEEvil, and to Facebook's "Like" system and thought we should not do it.

And then I thought, well, heck, it's only a virtual world after all, maybe we should try it as a little experiment in social engineering.

I'm just awfully wishy-washy lately.

No I'm not. Yes, I am.

[Prokofy Neva]

16 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Another thread reminded me of ratings we used to have in the profile.

For those unaware, it was a simple system to give each other pretend points that directly affected how much free money (stipend) everyone got each week. The intent was a crude reputation system. Obviously we gamed the fire out of ratings by having parties where the goal was just to help people & alts max out the quota. LL finally wised up and took away ratings.

 

But what we lost wasn't just a way to game the system and get a few more L$ every week, it was an incentive to throw parties that invariably involved a lot of profile reading, chatting and making friends. All the good things we frequently lament SL not having anymore.

I met people at ratings parties, they were dumb fun, and the tiny amount of free weekly L$ on offer was enough to create a lot of activity.

Every party needs an excuse, this gave us one.

 

Proposal

• Bring back ratings as a premium members perk.
• Premium is required to give ratings.
• Base stipend as it is now remains unchanged.
• Ratings go from 0 to 100 and are reset to 0 on the first of every month for everyone.
• Profile shows this months rating score, and your all time running total.
• People may only issue 1 rating point per minute. They may not vote for themselves or the same person more than once per day.
• On stipend day you get an additional "bonus" that your rating score% of 10% of your normal stipend.

(so on stipend day. if you normally get L$300 a week, and have 50 rating points, you get 50% of L$30, which is L$15 as your "bonus")

 

 

• Basics can still receive ratings with no finical gain (100% of 0 is still 0), perhaps some other free perk ???
• People love dumb internet points, plenty of us will do it just to make sure our numbers are bigger !!
• An extra L$30 a week isn't a huge amount, but as we have learnt, people will go to absurd lengths for very tiny amounts of L$.
• The amount isn't so large as to punish people who don't care for this kind of thing.
• Oh No people will game it, how terrible .. !! *wink*
• It very much favors newer residents who have more time and patience for BS, and arguably they have the most to gain from the side effects beyond the extra L$.
• The limits acts as a huge throttle and makes botting pointless (it wouldn't be economical). If someone comes up with a creative way to work around, then caps that don't impact humans can be introduced (such as a max number of ratings a premium account can issue in a certain period).

 

• Any user whatever account level can opt not to receive ratings.

 

 

The big gain is the uptick in engagement, people will have dumb parties, some of those parties will be fun. The extra L$ ends up in the economy. Gives newbies who got premium something to do. Answers the age old question, how do I meet people, something else to do at regular clubs, a nice way of showing someone appreciation, bragging rights, shame points ... 

I totally get that plenty here will have no use for such nonsense. All I can say, it was actually fun back in the day, most people I knew kept going to the parties even though they didn't need or care about the points themselves. It's no less nonsensical than a belli trash service.

 

JIRA FEATURE REQUEST - https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-233330

The Linden dollar is devaluing at it is hard to cash out even within a week for anything under 244 to the dollar, which is not a good sign.

I think the Lindens themselves have made this decision to devalue it, after they lowered tier by 5%., because while it was 243 for a year or more, now we are not likely to see 243 any time soon and even waiting for a month with a packet parked on the LindEx.

Therefore, I hardly think they will add another sink like this.

Not only was it gamed, it was a griefing vector. So you could be a good builder or a good socializer but if someone didn't like something you said somewhere, you'd get negrated on those features.

I'm happy to award you a negrate in advance, if you like, on "socializing" and a posrate for "building". 

I'm one of the few people who awarded Philip a triple negrate for a number of bad calls.

I don't think the Lindens will go for this, but there is no reason why a resident developer couldn't do this, using a HUD, and displays over the head like in any RP game already existing in SL.

Oh, and I have the perfect site for this, with a Leaderboard! And you know the one, with the floppy hats. 

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Prokofy Neva

[Solar Legion]

The problem with the original system ... is that it existed at all.

It is gone. Leave it gone.

You want a gamified social rating system? Code it yourself or go to a service that has it. Their only use is as a bullying vector. Period.

[EliseAnne85]

16 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

The big gain is the uptick in engagement, people will have dumb parties, some of those parties will be fun. The extra L$ ends up in the economy. Gives newbies who got premium something to do. Answers the age old question, how do I meet people, something else to do at regular clubs, a nice way of showing someone appreciation, bragging rights, shame points ... 

The above has negatives in it.

But, just to improve engagement and parties, counter proposal, I think SL should have popular recording artist concerts here in the virtual world.  How to make it work for all the avatars that might want to attend, I don't know.  But, the concert itself could come thru YouTube or something else.  

[Drake1 Nightfire]

21 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

The Linden dollar is devaluing at it is hard to cash out even within a week for anything under 244 to the dollar, which is not a good sign.

I think the Lindens themselves have made this decision to devalue it, after they lowered tier by 5%., because while it was 243 for a year or more, now we are not likely to see 243 any time soon and even waiting for a month with a packet parked on the LindEx.

Therefore, I hardly think they will add another sink like this.

Not only was it gamed, it was a griefing vector. So you could be a good builder or a good socializer but if someone didn't like something you said somewhere, you'd get negrated on those features.

I'm happy to award you a negrate in advance, if you like, on "socializing" and a posrate for "building". 

I'm one of the few people who awarded Philip a triple negrate for a number of bad calls.

I don't think the Lindens will go for this, but there is no reason why a resident developer couldn't do this, using a HUD, and displays over the head like in any RP game already existing in SL.

Oh, and I have the perfect site for this, with a Leaderboard! And you know the one, with the floppy hats. 

 

You are completely using the wrong word there... 

negrate
(N) 1. An ungrateful person, behaving as if they were entitled to everything. 2. A white person behaving as if they were black.

(V) 1. To treat someone of the same color with the disrespect of racial discrimination. 2. To disregard a respectable black person because of their skin color.

Might want to look up a word before you use it. 

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

You are completely using the wrong word there... 

negrate
(N) 1. An ungrateful person, behaving as if they were entitled to everything. 2. A white person behaving as if they were black.

(V) 1. To treat someone of the same color with the disrespect of racial discrimination. 2. To disregard a respectable black person because of their skin color.

Might want to look up a word before you use it. 

Plus, Coffee explicitly said "negative ratings" is NOT part of her proposal. 

Prokofy uses the word "negrate" for "negative ratings", which I have never in my life heard or read except when reading Prokofy's posts.  So, there's that..

[Solar Legion]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Plus, Coffee explicitly said "negative ratings" is NOT part of her proposal. 

Prokofy uses the word "negrate" for "negative ratings", which I have never in my life heard or read except when reading Prokofy's posts.  So, there's that..

Doesn't matter if it is part of the proposal or not - such a system encourages belittling/shunning/bullying of anyone with a lower score (let alone those who are not social butterflies in general).

[Caeruleiae]

I think making it so only premium members can gain anything $ wise, will absolutely make it NOT for new members and people just getting themselves out there, because they are far less likely to be premium members.

You say basic members can participate, but where is their incentive to do so? If premium members get both the notoriety of having more reputation points and a financial gain, no matter how small, they're the only ones that really benefit. Why would a basic member want to help someone just to gain nothing in return? Reputation points just like achievements, something people do like to get sometimes. But making it premium benefit heavy is going to likely turn more people away from it. There are way way way way way more non premium members in sl. 

I you offer zero incentive for everyone and only some incentive for a small portion of sl people, it won't go the same as it once might. Today's standards of like and subscribe, liking and being liked, having reputations and all the stuff that goes with all of that isn't the same as it was even ten years ago. People need that like to mean something. I don't think it will help improve involvement unless there's a better benefit across the board, or no financial benefit for anyone at all. I still think there will be a lot of people outside forums that will feel weird about this. Not a bad idea but not thought through completely either.

But maybe I spend too much time on the habits of people and their online experiences and my thoughts are biased because of that. I work directly with studying online habits of people and companies, I've seen things like this lots of times. You see it a lot in games, groups, boards where people gather, even places like social media. Without financial incentive, it has the same impact across the board for all. With financial incentive for only a portion of participants, it has vastly different impact, and mostly, its negative. That's why most places don't use that aspect, it's a dangerous line. 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Caeruleiae

[Caeruleiae]

11 hours ago, Orwar said:

   Maybe you should try fishing sometime, people who do actually do interact with each other on occasion, and even engage with it as a group activity - might as well fish up a few L$ if you just want to hang out and chat anyway, hm? Certainly beats clubbing, as far as social activities are concerned. 

   It seems awfully awkward to introduce such a wide-spanning feature to 'possibly maybe make a small portion of users engage less with existing penny-chores on the grid'.

Most people who do the fishing and coins and stuff aren't even premium. That's a big part of why so many people do it, because they need the few spare linden, or just want it too. We do talk a lot too, meet new people, get together for little parties while we do it. People don't have to, but some of us do and it's a lot of fun. Some people don't get that part because they don't really participate or don't see it. I can see why they might not understand that it too can be a very social thing

 

This idea kind of gives the basic accounts are lesser vibe. But that's probably my take on it and a bad take, since most of mine usually are.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

2 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I don't want to start to get IM's of people asking me to rate their profile..

Oh god. So much this.

I guess I don't really understand what the point of this would be. It's been a long time since I got involved in fishing, gold hunting, and Linden Realms, but those activities still exist from my understanding, and they were actually really fun to do both alone and with groups of people. The fishing and gold hunts were REALLY social, too. The groups would chat nonstop.

[Rowan Amore]

The word would be...

negate...nullify; make ineffective

[Polenth Yue]

It's odd that people think it'd help creators. I spend most of my time standing on a build grid or wandering about sorting stuff on my own. I talk in groups, but I'm not out at clubs every night. So I'd only get upvoted during events like Fantasy Faire, where I actually go to parties. This system would mostly benefit people who spend most of their time clubbing and presumably the clubs holding the parties.

Anyway, I see it going about as well as the forum reactions. Which means people would complain constantly about their score. I'm not surprised that I haven't seen people being nostalgic about this until now.