Here's How to Opt Out of Data Collection(?) and Display

[belindacarson]

4 minutes ago, CharlotteStargazer said:

"We had no idea people would be so concerned about this, and in our defense we thought no one would find out!"

but unlike the other bot controllers of SL, at least Bonniebots actually identified themselves...........................

[Ardy Lay]

1 minute ago, belindacarson said:

but unlike the other bot controllers of SL, at least Bonniebots actually identified themselves...........................

How likely is that to ever happen again?  That's how criminals get caught, is by bragging about their accomplishments.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Ardy Lay

[Ezbeharra]

1 hour ago, Skyler Pancake said:

No one involved in the project ever expected the level of attention received.

Even if I take this at face value, I have to wonder what else you haven't thought through, given that you're gathering a rather large store of data about users and their in-world activities.

[Dorientje Woller]

8 minutes ago, belindacarson said:

but unlike the other bot controllers of SL, at least Bonniebots actually identified themselves...........................

What happens in Second Life, stays in Second Life ... unless the user itself decide to share its experiences.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Dorientje Woller

[Elsa Ewing]

We don't inform you, that your personal Second Life data are published on our website, but sure if you find out by stumbling over our website, we opt you out, if you wish.

Sounds weird doesn't it?

Edited January 26, 2023 by Elsa Ewing

[Solar Legion]

What happens in Second Life stays wherever whomever was present and taking screenshots, logs and other such things decides to place it (be it just on their own computer, a blog or elsewhere).

Now if you honestly believe otherwise... boy do I have a nice deal for you on an absolutely fabulous pre-owned bridge!

[Scylla Rhiadra]

33 minutes ago, Elsa Ewing said:

The simple solution IMHO is that the Bees continue their bot hobby, but simply leave out all the names of SL residents in what they publish on their website.
So no profiles from residents on their website, no individual earnings or landholdings or whatever is possible to harvest and connect to Second Life residents.

This is reasonable . . . maybe. I don't have objections to them harvesting information from anyone who is ok with that, and has consented.

But here's the reason why I want to know what exactly "opting out" means.

The process, as I understand it (and I'm open to correction) is this: a BonnieBelle bot TPs into a location. Using LSL, it immediately gathers minimally the following information:

• Who is in the region, along with data from their profile (which data appears under "Avatar Search")
• What attachments they are wearing (which data is later aggregated into their "attachments" page)
• How many avatars are in the region at that particular moment.

Individually, all of these pieces of information are relatively harmless -- unless you combine them. And the process of harvesting must inevitably be combining them, i.e. Avatar X, wearing the following attachments, was in Region Y at such-and-such a date and time.

Now, their web site isn't providing those associations; I imagine that if they had, LL would have responded far more strongly.

BUT are they scouring those relationships from their database? Or does their database contain details about the presence of particular people at particular places, at particular times, wearing particular attachments?

You can imagine how that sort of detailed information, relating these things, could be used for . . . not good purposes.

This is why I want 1) a clear statement on whether opting out means that we are also not being harvested for data, and 2) how secure and safe their database is.

For those who think that I may be overstating the threat of a database hack, I'd suggest you google "The Wrong Hands" and "Second Life." There is a precedent here.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Alwin Alcott]

17 minutes ago, CharlotteStargazer said:

 and in our defense we thought no one would find out!"

so as long nobody finds out it's allright .. good lord, this could be words from Zuckerberg.

Come with something better.

 

me, i and my alts are not interested in bringinf you ány data about avatar, premium status, marriage status or whatever status.

And we should't opt out. You should make a opt in, by ASKING everybody who's data you make public.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Alwin Alcott

[Elsa Ewing]

3 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

so as long nobody finds out it's allright .. good lord, this could be words from Zuckerberg.

Come with something better.

I think that Charlotte just was being sarcastic. That was not an official B statement IMHO.

[Ezbeharra]

4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

This is why I want 1) a clear statement on whether opting out means that we are also not being harvested for data, and 2) how secure and safe their database is.

For those who think that I may be overstating the threat of a database hack, I'd suggest you google "The Wrong Hands" and "Second Life." There is a precedent here.

https://observatory.mozilla.org/analyze/bonniebots.com

[Ceka Cianci]

7 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

so as long nobody finds out it's allright .. good lord, this could be words from Zuckerberg.

Come with something better.

 

me, i and my alts are not interested in bringinf you ány data about avatar, premium status, marriage status or whatever status.

And we should't opt out. You should make a opt in, by ASKING everybody who's data you make public.

I don't think that is someone from there.. I think that was someone being sarcastic.. hehehe

[EliseAnne85]

5 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

What happens in Second Life stays wherever whomever was present and taking screenshots, logs and other such things decides to place it (be it just on their own computer, a blog or elsewhere).

Now if you honestly believe otherwise... boy do I have a nice deal for you on an absolutely fabulous pre-owned bridge!

I could fake a bunch of logs and even screenshots using Photoshop or similar graphics programs.  So, I don't think that's the real problem.   What I think the privacy policy of SL is saying is that *if* you share real life information and/or if you share information about yourself being involved in any illegalities while using SL and it's tools (chat, voice, etc), LL is not responsible for the sharing of such information, and may have the right to share it with third parties, such as law enforcement.   

[Scylla Rhiadra]

4 minutes ago, Ezbeharra said:

https://observatory.mozilla.org/analyze/bonniebots.com

Could be better.

[Dorientje Woller]

12 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

What happens in Second Life stays wherever whomever was present and taking screenshots, logs and other such things decides to place it (be it just on their own computer, a blog or elsewhere).

Now if you honestly believe otherwise... boy do I have a nice deal for you on an absolutely fabulous pre-owned bridge!

Stick that deal in the place that I am imaging it. And those thoughts are private data 🤭

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Could be better.

Hard to get a worse letter-score than "F"!

[Solar Legion]

1 minute ago, EliseAnne85 said:

I could fake a bunch of logs and even screenshots using Photoshop or similar graphics programs.  So, I don't think that's the real problem.   What I think the privacy policy of SL is saying is that *if* you share real life information and/or if you share information about yourself being involved in any illegalities while using SL and it's tools (chat, voice, etc), LL is not responsible for the sharing of such information, and may have the right to share it with third parties, such as law enforcement.   

Yeah ... People can (and have) taken chat logs, snapshots and other such things and posted them up outside of Second Life. Not all of them bother to identify who they are/were in those situations.

It doesn't much matter if these things can be faked (and really more people do need to bear both that they can be faked and that it doesn't much mater to some in mind) - there is nothing preventing a user from doing this.

What you think the Privacy Policy is saying ... would be worded considerably differently if such were the case.

People log and screenshot. They can do pretty much what they want with those logs and screenshots. those third parties (such as law enforcement) have pretty much always been able to get this information by request. if anyone needed a Privacy Policy to clarify that for them ... Well that's a problem on them.

[Elsa Ewing]

19 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

What happens in Second Life stays wherever whomever was present and taking screenshots, logs and other such things decides to place it (be it just on their own computer, a blog or elsewhere).

Now if you honestly believe otherwise... boy do I have a nice deal for you on an absolutely fabulous pre-owned bridge!

Because it does happen, doesn't mean one should put their head in the sand and hope for the best.
IMHO there is a lot to gain by sorting this matter out properly and not with the usual half arsed solutions we are all to familiar with.
 
 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Elsa Ewing

[Solar Legion]

Just now, Elsa Ewing said:

Because it does happen, doesn't mean one should put their head in the sand and hope for the best.
 

Do note that nowhere have I stated as such. I have stated the reality. Do with that what you will but do not try to pretend I have said anything that I have not expressly stated.

[Ezbeharra]

There is a qualitative difference between sharing data about something or someone seen in Second Life at one particular place, at one particular time, from the vantage of one particular user, and gathering a constantly updated pool of data about many users in many different places that is regularly updated over time. The latter can be used to bypass in-world privacy measures meant to protect users from stalkers and griefers. I can't believe this has to be constantly explained, and I'm going to say that anyone who claims not to understand it at this point is just willfully refusing to consider the possibility of the impact things like this can have on anyone besides themselves.

[Elsa Ewing]

19 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Do note that nowhere have I stated as such. I have stated the reality. Do with that what you will but do not try to pretend I have said anything that I have not expressly stated.

It was never my intention to let you say things you did not say.
If you somehow got that impression, that was not the purpose of my post. I apologize if my post gave you that impression.

That said, in general, without implying that you implied this without saying so:

Because massive data gathering happens on the Internet and other digital platforms, that doesn't mean one should put their head in the sand and hope for the best.
IMHO there is a lot to gain by sorting this matter out properly and not with the usual half arsed solutions we are all to familiar with.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Elsa Ewing

[Lewis Luminos]

1 hour ago, EliseAnne85 said:

If said bot is collecting usernames, what's to keep it from spamming or sending links en masse to all the usernames at another time?  

Nothing, but it could do that anyway, even if you don't contact it. Anyone in SL can send you an IM, unless you have locked down to allow only friends to IM you.

[EliseAnne85]

14 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Yeah ... People can (and have) taken chat logs, snapshots and other such things and posted them up outside of Second Life. Not all of them bother to identify who they are/were in those situations.

It doesn't much matter if these things can be faked (and really more people do need to bear both that they can be faked and that it doesn't much mater to some in mind) - there is nothing preventing a user from doing this.

What you think the Privacy Policy is saying ... would be worded considerably differently if such were the case.

People log and screenshot. They can do pretty much what they want with those logs and screenshots. those third parties (such as law enforcement) have pretty much always been able to get this information by request. if anyone needed a Privacy Policy to clarify that for them ... Well that's a problem on them.

I've been saying it should be worded differently.  It should spell it out as I wrote to you regarding real life information and/or the sharing of any illegal activity while using Linden Labs SL tools for text or voice.

However, this issue with the current bots is not all about sharing of profiles, profiles which I could again fake in Photoshop or similar graphics programs.  It's other issues beyond profiles.  

However, no matter what I wrote in response to you, I'm not saying you are wrong or anything.  This is a complicated matter.

[CharlotteStargazer]

18 minutes ago, Elsa Ewing said:

I think that Charlotte just was being sarcastic. That was not an official B statement IMHO.

I was being sarcastic, yes. That was the reason for the quotation marks. I do not have, nor do I want, any affiliation to data collectors of any kind. 

[EliseAnne85]

3 minutes ago, Lewis Luminos said:

Nothing, but it could do that anyway, even if you don't contact it. Anyone in SL can send you an IM, unless you have locked down to allow only friends to IM you.

Yes, but what I'm saying is that if it gathers usernames, it could send IM's en masse couldn't it?  Or, it already has our usernames and can send IM's en masse through the SL IM system.  That's spam at the very least.  Isn't it?  If those IM's from bots contained links, that could be a problem.  

[CharlotteStargazer]

41 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

so as long nobody finds out it's allright .. good lord, this could be words from Zuckerberg.

Come with something better.

 

me, i and my alts are not interested in bringinf you ány data about avatar, premium status, marriage status or whatever status.

And we should't opt out. You should make a opt in, by ASKING everybody who's data you make public.

JFC. I have absolutely no interest in your, or anyone else's data. Again, I DO NOT have any affiliation with data collectors of any kind, nor do I want it. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by CharlotteStargazer
Correction.