Firestorm's new local mesh has a serious issue.

[Stymie Frobozz]

So I went to test the new local mesh feature in Firestorm and then logged off for a bit.  When I came back I found small objects named 'object' on my parcel where I had deleted the local mesh objects.  They also are in my trash in my inventory.  They each have one LI and seem to retain the texture information from when messing with the local mesh object.

 

 

[Beq Janus]

This is expected behviour.

In order for the temporary objects to be able to be used with scripts and so forth some form of server side instance is required. I create an object that can house your local mesh when you use the built in Rez Selected option and those are the remains of the surrogate objects currently created. They look like that as a side effect of the object settings I apply, it is not ideal and I hope to be able to create a more obvious placeholder in future. For now, if you want something more visible then use your own donor mesh object (a simple mesh cube will be good enough, (it must be a mesh, not a prim).

 

[Stymie Frobozz]

So it's working as intended when I clear, remove, and delete, the local mesh and still shows back up on my land?  I don't think you fully understood what I was talking about.  I mean I do everything to remove it and it still ends up with an object on my land when I log back on later.

[Beq Janus]

Reading your update, I think I understand where you are getting caught out.  I am wondering if you are muddling the terms up, this would make sense of your observations, and I agree that the UI is far from ideal here, with too much ambiguity. 

In the original post you said that you were deleting the objects; however, in your last reply you stated that you tried to "remove, clear and delete". Those are very different operations and with the exception of "delete", do not remove the underlying object, and are not intended to do so.

Remove - removes a collada file from the list of locally monitored files. It vanishes from the list in the floater. It has nothing to do with the inworld objects

Clear - clear removes the "local data" from the donor, allowing it to revert to it "server" form.

There is a '?' button on the local mesh floater that takes you to the help page. On that page we find the following description:-

Quote

 

The [Remove] button will remove the selected mesh asset from the list of local meshes.

The [Reload] button will attempt to refresh the model and update all local instances of that model with the new version. Please note that a bad export can result in a failed Reload, typically leaving the older version active.

The [Clear] button will revert the surrogate back to its original state. Note that for surrogates created using the [Rez] button this currently reverts them to an unusable object, we hope to address this in the near future.

The [Rez selected] button will allow you to create a container “surrogate” using the normal build tools and, once placed, will fill it with the currently highlighted mesh asset as if the “Apply” button had been used.

 

As noted the surrogate will revert to the server view, and in the server's eyes this was never a mesh and so it becomes unusable as a mesh, you cannot re-apply to it, you have to delete and create a new one. Under no conditions does "clear" remove the item from the region and I suspect the issue that you are having is the that you are using clear, the item becomes an unusable empty husk, which in some cases may not show up until you resize it/TP/relog.

My assumption is therefore that you have been using "clear" to try to delete it. This would make sense and as noted in the help page, this is a known shortcoming and something I hope to improve upon in the future (quite what to do about it I have not yet worked out).

As mentioned before, you can sidestep any issue with the "weird surrogate objects" by simply providing your own mesh target to apply to. 

This clip shows me using a mesh cube (literally blender default cube uploaded and named "surrogate" so I can find it easily. It is what I used during the creation of local mesh feature, before I had the "rez selected" option. you'll see me use remove and clear and note that they never delete the object, that is not their purpose. At the end of this clip I delete it. Thsi works and you can see that an extra "surrogate cube" object appears in my trash folder on the server. 

https://i.gyazo.com/7fb4c8ff1d91f9ee739bbcea7762cda1.mp4

I may have all the above wrong, this may not be the source of your confusion, if not, then please raise a Jira and attach a video clip so that I can investigate further. You can update here too but it is not an efficient way to handle bugs as I don;t spend much time trawling the forums as a rule. (click here for the firestorm JIRA )

Just to double-check matters, the above clip used a "normal" mesh and showed the deletion. The next clips show the same with a "rez-selected" surrogate.

In the following clip, I have a collada file loaded into my viewer's local mesh floater. I use the "rez selected" option on the floater to create a donor rather than using my own. I zoom into the new object and fiddle with it briefly then delete it just like any other object. It is gone.

https://i.gyazo.com/d098e35df31c5b495d747ec563823ee4.mp4

I then logout and return back to the same spot next login, as shown in this clip. There is no object and I drag select to find it if it is there but somehow hidden. 

https://i.gyazo.com/b346172a678395d0800fb173850c9ab3.mp4

A long-winded response as I needed to cover a few possible things that might explain what you are seeing. 

Bottom line: The "Rez-elected" surrogate is still a work in progress as noted on the help page. Apart from being a useless misshapen thing, it also becomes unusable when you clear it. The simplest solution is to not clear it. In the end the only way to remove the surrogate from the region is to delete it using the build tools like any other object. 

There is certainly rooom to improve in the UI and I have a number of features requested etc. You will also find a list of known bugs on the Jira (search for Local Mesh and you should find them).

Hope this helps.

 

[Stymie Frobozz]

I clear the object from local and then delete it and then I will work on other things, log off, and then have an object on my land that I had deleted via normal means when I log back on.  If you checked my profile, you'd see I've been using SL for over a decade and know my way around.  I am explaining a bug to you, and you are telling me that I am using your viewer wrong.  You are the one that is not getting the point of this post.   I'm trying to be helpful by telling you about a bug that I have reproduced numerous times so that someone can take a look at it and see if they can find out what is causing it.  It's not due to me not knowing how to use Firestorm, it's due to the fact that it is a reproduceable bug that I came across and decided to point out.

When something is beta you want people to try to find things that are wrong so you can figure out what might be causing it right?  Maybe some of those people are going to try to do things wrong on purpose to see if it causes issues so they can help make that feature better by pointing out the issues.

[Beq Janus]

7 hours ago, Stymie Frobozz said:

 I'm trying to be helpful by telling you about a bug that I have reproduced numerous times so that someone can take a look at it and see if they can find out what is causing it.  It's not due to me not knowing how to use Firestorm, it's due to the fact that it is a reproduceable bug that I came across and decided to point out.

I understand this, and help finding, exploring and resolving bugs is appreciated; which is why I have tried to extrapolate from the explanations you have given. So far I have not been able to reproduce what you have reported at all, and have suggested other reasons that might explain what you are seeing. I am not denying that there may be a bug (local mesh has I think 20 open bugs I am reviewing at present, some simple, some not so simple.). In this case, in the absence of being able to reproduce this myself,  I am simply exploring the possible causes for what you see based on the information given.

I am very keen to explore bugs but I cannot explore something that either, a) I cannot reproduce or b) those who can reproduce it cannot provide me with logs, videos etc.

The steps I am using to try to reproduce the bug that you are seeing are as follows (please read and confirm, or improve):-

a) open the local mesh floater
b) add a mesh to the floater using the [add] button
c) res the object using [rez selected], and clicking an appropriate place in world.
d) clear the obect
e) delete the object, noting that it appears in my trash
f) relog

If I understand correctly, then If the bug has occurred I should find the twisted misshapen surrogate prim back in the location from which it was deleted.

Would you consider this a complete set of steps? If not, then please let me know what I am missing, so that I can try those additional steps.. 

I have tested this repeatedly and so far I have never seen a deleted item reappearing, so either I am missing some steps, misunderstanding the problem, or there is some specific dependency on your setup that triggers this behaviour, all these options are possible at this point. 

Additional questions:

When you find that the deleted object has reappeared, has it vanished from the trash folder, or does it remain there? 

When you next try this, please copy the UUID of the object before you delete it. When it reappears please check the UUID again and confirm if it is the same UUID or a different one. This will help understand what is happening. 

Finally, while I am happy to carry on monitoring this thread it is not really the appropriate place for a proper bug investigation, I would request that you please raise a new bug on the firestorm jira https://jira.firestormviewer.org so that I can gather all the proper information, in the proper place. This also helps other people who might come across the bug.and helps build a pattern (if one exists) to explain why you can see this and I cannot.

 

[Resi Pfeffer]

Not sure if thats a bug or a mistake i made, but i ran into something strange yesterday by using local mesh.

I built an elevator entry (backdrop) in blender that actually consists of the frame and 2 closed doors, joined into one single object in blender.
-When uploading it the usual way, its around 3 meters high and 2 meters wide, as expected.
-If i use the mesh preview, it will get spit out as 30 meters wide and 1 meter high.

[Beq Janus]

23 hours ago, Resi Pfeffer said:

Not sure if thats a bug or a mistake i made, but i ran into something strange yesterday by using local mesh.

I built an elevator entry (backdrop) in blender that actually consists of the frame and 2 closed doors, joined into one single object in blender.
-When uploading it the usual way, its around 3 meters high and 2 meters wide, as expected.
-If i use the mesh preview, it will get spit out as 30 meters wide and 1 meter high.

That is likely to be some form of FIRE-3260404 and FIRE-32613 which I am looking at at the moment.

In local mesh we are not applying the visual scene transforms, that is the world space transforms. Mostly that is correct, we are loading individual meshes only (at this point) and so the world location and (arguably) the world space rotation are not relevant. However, the world space scale is important. 

In most cases (if you want consistent results) you should be exporting with a uniform and ideally a unit scale (1x1x1), my guess is that you have not "applied scale" to use the blender term (no idea what the term is in other tools but they will have something similar).

My plan is to support the world  space scale, but I may also give a warning as it is (most of the time) not what you wanted. In any case, the work-around for now is to apply scale in your tools before export. 

Hope that helps.

Edited to add: 

If that doesn't explain it then a DAE file added to a new Jira describing the problem would be very welcome indeed.

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Beq Janus

[Resi Pfeffer]

1 hour ago, Beq Janus said:

Hope that helps.

Thank you for explaining, Beq

Im a bloody newbie to Blender, but i think to know that i indeed didnt apply  any scale on my build in blender. As soon as the elevator was done, i exported it as DAE and rezzed it in SL using local mesh.
I dont see it as broken. Just a little incovenient, as i have to shrink and restore the proportions of the object after rezzing.

[Beq Janus]

2 hours ago, Resi Pfeffer said:

Im a bloody newbie to Blender, but i think to know that i indeed didnt apply  any scale on my build in blender. As soon as the elevator was done, i exported it as DAE and rezzed it in SL using local mesh.

In blender, make sure that you are in object mode, then ctrl-A and select scale from the popup menu.

saves all the faff later.