Is this yellow face?

[Pixie Kobichenko]

No.  Blackface, yellowface, redface are ALL caricatures of the races they are “mimicking”. The intent of those practices is to play up racial stereotypes thru bigotry & spread racism.  Those things flourished in the early 1900s with vaudeville &  the introduction of movies.  What you *might* be alluding to is cultural appropriation.  An example of that is in my state- a previous governor had an adult freeloading daughter who parked a fifth wheel trailer on the grounds of the tax payer funded governor’s mansion.  She was in a punk rock band & posed for photos & made a music video while wearing a Native American Warriors feather headdress- which are considered sacred.  She doubled down on criticism stating it was “appropriate culturation”.  Her intent wasn’t to mock, but to make use of something sacred to another group of peoples that she had no business with.  
 

This image is innocuous.  As a stand alone it is simply a beautiful avatar dressed in ceremonial garb in a scenic setting.  Yellow face would be more like the cartoons during WW2 like Looney Toons Tokyo Jokio.  You can google to find it or images for clarification.  
 

Clearly this photo is not.  The intent is not to mock or demean.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Pixie Kobichenko

[Mark Sparkle]

13 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

So, is the OP trolling, or sincere?

You're welcome to think so, but my answer is no. As somebody who is Asian in real life, I have had my share of real-life encounters with non-Asians borrowing from Asian culture. At those times I have had to try to figure out the intent. Sometimes it is out of appreciation and the intensions were meant to be positive. Sometimes they are not. Sometimes I am not sure, and when I am not sure I ask people from the same community (in this case other people in SL) so I can get help to understand how others saw things. 

[Mark Sparkle]

1 hour ago, Gwin LeShelle said:

My RL avatar is japanese x3 and the only thing that offended me in this post is "yellow" face. I'm not yellow thanks.

As an Asian person I also do not think my skin colour is yellow. I was using a term that I did not create the name of. 

[Mark Sparkle]

11 minutes ago, Pixie Kobichenko said:

Clearly this photo is not.  The intent is not to mock or demean.

Thank you - you understood the context of my question. I was looking for others' opinions on whether this was cultural appreciation or caricature.

[Pixie Kobichenko]

You are welcome.

this link might be an interesting 2 minute read- https://ethicsunwrapped.utexas.edu/case-study/christina-fallin-appropriate-culturation

[Love Zhaoying]

Proposal: If you think that the OP's example picture is "Yellowface", then, unless you personally are Asian and taking offense to it, you may be inclined to racist stereotypes for thinking it.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

8 minutes ago, Mark Sparkle said:

As somebody who is Asian in real life, I have had my share of real-life encounters with non-Asians borrowing from Asian culture. At those times I have had to try to figure out the intent. Sometimes it is out of appreciation and the intensions were meant to be positive. Sometimes they are not. 

I'm in a different minority than you, but I can relate to this. This is a big mood. The best advice I can give - people are often pretty clumsy - even when trying to show their appreciation for things - so try not to analyze behavior too hard, unless something REALLY hits you like "damn, that's over the line!" 

Pixie's post lays out the differences really, really well. Are they mocking you, perpetuating harmful stereotypes, trying to get a reaction, being a jerk? Then that's when it's a good time to roll your eyes and walk away (I don't bother with engaging - it's just not worth it).

[CaithLynnSayes]

7 minutes ago, Mark Sparkle said:

I also do not think my skin colour is yellow. I was using a term that I did not create the name of. 

If you name it, it exists.

4 minutes ago, Mark Sparkle said:

Thank you - you understood the context of my question. I was looking for others' opinions on whether this was cultural appreciation or caricature.

The fact that you have to ask this at all is pretty sad really and proves my previously made point. Please be aware i'm not here to insult you, but i really need to tell you you need to stop looking for racism. In your original post you described the picture and you said that your immediate  reaction was that you "saw yellow face". I don't know if you're ready to see this or not but this is problematic. It shows your mindset, it shows you consciously or unconsciously look for racism. Try and not do this please. It's not healthy. The vast majority of people are not racist. The media wants you to think they are, but try and have a thought of your own for once. Try and see actual people. You'll be surprised. People in SL don't know my race, I will never tell anyone, because it's not important.

[CaithLynnSayes]

10 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

People in SL don't know my race, I will never tell anyone, because it's not important.

Maybe i'm an escape from Sentinelese Island. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Paul Hexem]

We must always be offended by everything and want to cancel everyone or we lose our Social Justice Membership cards. That's the rules, can't be helped.

[Sparkle Bunny]

I have a Japanese av; she wears kimono and Asian skins. Editing your Caucasian skin and features in Photoshop seems weird to me when all you have to do is change your skin and shape in world; or, if you don't want to do that because you're too attached to your existing skin and shape... well, if you're that attached to them, why would you want to change them in post-processing? None of it makes much sense.

And yes, the 'Oriental' terminology is... ugh. I can only assume that English isn't her first language.

[Ceka Cianci]

4 minutes ago, Sparkle Bunny said:

I have a Japanese av; she wears kimono and Asian skins. Editing your Caucasian skin and features in Photoshop seems weird to me when all you have to do is change your skin and shape in world; or, if you don't want to do that because you're too attached to your existing skin and shape... well, if you're that attached to them, why would you want to change them in post-processing? None of it makes much sense.

And yes, the 'Oriental' terminology is... ugh. I can only assume that English isn't her first language.

I think the part about changing it in Photoshop is just a guess.. It looks like a lot of other skins that are on the market..

I'm doubting that part happened..

[Sid Nagy]

White people ain't exactly white either. Just saying.
It is all about the names the different races have been given in the past.
No matter how much people try to juggle with all these names, fact is and will be in the future that there are different races of humans, with different skin tones.
Even if we make pink elephants out of this given fact more and more, the color name will be pink at one point than.

It is the discrimination on basis of the skin colors that is the evil IMHO not naming those different skin types after a color.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Sid Nagy

[SorachaNicEoghain]

3 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

Not sure where it says you must use the ethnicity, sex, species, etc you are in RL in order to play SL or to not offend anyone.  Was that in the small print somewhere?

 

This 👆. Sometimes I'm a rabbit. Is that bunny face? I asked no rabbit's permission before I bought my Jomo Bunny

[Orwar]

   Wait, what. The word 'oriental' is offensive too now?

   Darn, I just don't know how I shall break the news to the Iranian gentleman selling oriental rugs downtown. 

   I understand that people from Japan or Korea might prefer to be called Japanese or Korean rather than 'Asian' (much like I dislike to be referred to as 'European' - I don't want to be bunched up with the French!), but it's just kind of the reality of how people in general express themselves, without any intention of malice. We still use the word 'Oriental' to refer to eastern culture, fashion, food, and music - and the word really just means 'eastern', just like 'occidental' refers to the people and cultures of the west - sure, they're both archaic and really quite vague, but offensive? Bah.

[Ceka Cianci]

I just call everyone, Maynard.

Hey Maynard!

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Ceka Cianci

[Coffee Pancake]

You're all still arguing and taking posts from PragerU as having literally any weight on this subject.

This thread is a blatant political troll.

Cultural appropriation is real, so is digital black face. Finding one person as representative of a culture or race to say it's ok is not how that works.

Too many in this thread working real hard to justify being casually racially insensitive (at best).

💩 like this is why these forums are dead. Good job. You won.

[Pixie Kobichenko]

22 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   Wait, what. The word 'oriental' is offensive too now?

   Darn, I just don't know how I shall break the news to the Iranian gentleman selling oriental rugs downtown. 

   I understand that people from Japan or Korea might prefer to be called Japanese or Korean rather than 'Asian' (much like I dislike to be referred to as 'European' - I don't want to be bunched up with the French!), but it's just kind of the reality of how people in general express themselves, without any intention of malice. We still use the word 'Oriental' to refer to eastern culture, fashion, food, and music - and the word really just means 'eastern', just like 'occidental' refers to the people and cultures of the west - sure, they're both archaic and really quite vague, but offensive? Bah.

Maybe it might be more of an American culture thing to differentiate how that term is used.   I am aware in Oklahoma the societal preference of when to use oriental vs Asian.  There are some areas with laws outlying acceptable usage:  https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112465167

[SorachaNicEoghain]

23 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

You're all still arguing and taking posts from PragerU as having literally any weight on this subject.

This thread is a blatant political troll.

Cultural appropriation is real, so is digital black face. Finding one person as representative of a culture or race to say it's ok is not how that works.

Too many in this thread working real hard to justify being casually racially insensitive (at best).

💩 like this is why these forums are dead. Good job. You won.

Unless they're making fun of a whole race of people and perpetuating negative stereotypes, I don't see the harm ♡

[Istelathis]

I was raised old school, with idealized views of the great American melting pot and all of that Jazz.

When people get outraged about Rings of Power having black dwarves, I just shrug my shoulders.  That kind of stuff doesn't phase me, and I can still enjoy the show. I didn't mind Ghost Busters being entirely female either.  All of this enforced division through shame does bother me though, I mean, so long as people are not intentionally trying to cause harm to others.  I was raised in an entirely different time.. damn I'm old. 

 

/me pats self on back for antiquated views.. while acknowledging I could be completely backwards in my views due to upbringing.  It doesn't help that I can be slow at times 😵  

/me crawls off soap box, before someone pushes me off and apologizes for touching an advanced topic.  I just wish we lived in a society that embraced one another rather than scream "MINE MINE MINE"  

[Mark Sparkle]

18 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

I live in a metropolis where garments, cloth, jewelry, home decor, and more is imported from all over the world.  They want to sell their items in the downtown garment district.  It's always been this way where I live since I was a child.  They are happy to sell, not unhappy.   The world is based upon goods and services.  It might not be prudent to take cultural appropriation too far, that can take money away from people who need it.  The hippies adopted all kinds of garb from all different cultures because it's sold here and they liked it.  No other reason.  So, I can go back to The Beatles.  The Beatles probably wore items from India because they liked it and I don't see how it could have caused harm.  Tons of items from India are sold where I live and happen to be my favorite imports. 

This is not what cultural appropriation means.

Now if you went downtown, saw an Indian restaurant, liked the food, and then setup a restaurant next door and tried to sell the same food but also claim it was different, it was your own spin you see, not a copy at all. Then that is you appropriating someone else culture for your own economic benefit. People selling their own cultures things to other people is not it.

Edited January 11, 2023 by Mark Sparkle

[Jaylinbridges]

I suppose this song will manage to offend everyone here in one way or another.  Really folks, worry about something important for a change, what a waste of a thread.

 

[EliseAnne85]

2 minutes ago, Mark Sparkle said:

This is not what cultural appropriation means.

Now if you went downtown, saw an Indian restaurant, liked the food, and then setup a restaurant next door and tried to sell the same food but also claim it was different, it was your own spin you see, not a copy at all. Then that is what this you appropriating someone else culture for your own economic benefit. People selling their own cultures things to other people is not it.

Oh, I see.  I was reading about it but didn't quite get it yet.  You wrote it much better than the article I was reading.  So, it's kind of cross-culture, a mixture, like American pizza instead of real Italian pizza when one is in Italy.  The term I know of is "Americanized" but that happens.  I can see how the girl in the photo may like Asian or Geisha things but did not want to spend on a whole new skin and shape, but yet it was a mixture of the two; Caucasian and Asian.  Well, it happens with clothing, art, music, food.  It's called influenced, such as someone could say "that music is beautiful; it has a unique Asian influence."  I don't see influence as not already part of the world since I was a child and it does no harm.  I come from 1st generation American's and the way my Mom cooked our traditional dishes varied from every other Mom I knew.  They don't all cook alike, even when the same ethnicity and food.

[Rowan Amore]

[Ceka Cianci]

4 minutes ago, Mark Sparkle said:

No https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Examples_of_yellowface <-- I was asking about this.

But other people started talking about cultural appropriation, but then gave examples that were not cultural appropriation, so I tried to help.

But the foundation of the thread is mainly based off the assumption of the artists race that none of us has seen before..It's all from some of the skins their avatar has worn in previous images.