LL should buy the Cinnamon and Chai bodies from Slink

[Polenth Yue]

8 hours ago, EliseAnne85 said:

As I said in other posts, I have been selling in SL for a long time and have never experienced what I've experienced.  I've always sold and never had a bad month. I was selling when there were scultpties.

I've been selling for a long time too. What I'm trying to get across is that when things change in ways they haven't before, we have to change what we do in ways we haven't before. Sometimes strategies that might have worked for ten years will no longer work. It's what I've been considering for my shop, so I figured that perspective might help others as well.

Slink obviously took the approach of closing and doing something entirely different outside of Second Life, but I think there's a less extreme option of just shaking it up in Second Life. How to do that is going to be different for every creator.

[EliseAnne85]

59 minutes ago, Polenth Yue said:

What I'm trying to get across is that when things change in ways they haven't before, we have to change what we do in ways we haven't before. Sometimes strategies that might have worked for ten years

I changed when mesh happened but I was doing furniture/decor mostly.  All my sculpties were furniture/decor also.  My sculpties have long since been closed and there won't be any redeliveries on those.  lol  They've been obliterated.  So, I have been through a change, in a way, and a different strategy. What happened was I had a creative spark that I think was really good as it wasn't forced, it just came to me and I created the things and then no sales unless I put a very low sale price.  So, this time my creative spark hit bad timing. 

She had her price for her item, it wasn't met, and I think she moved on.  But, I cannot forsee the future if she will change and even *want* LL to buy it.  As far as me, I'm taking it one day at a time.  I paid for one month's more rent to wait n see how that goes.  My spark is dimming also with wondering when this PBR thing is coming as four uploads per face is a lot of money to front to make PBR items, especially if we go into an economic downturn.  

But thanks for the encouragement.  I think my creative spark just went out for several reasons.  If people want to buy still for their SLINK, there are some rock bottom prices right now.  I bought some items for another body I have that's older at super low prices.  Why not take advantage of the low prices if one stumbles upon some?  

Thanks again for the encouragement though.  

Edited January 4, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[Lucia Nightfire]

8 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

We saw a new, thin male body succeed, but that found a niche for thin and androgyn avatars.

To be fair, it is still niche in terms of adoption/uptake.

I currently only see 25 users wearing Slim ATM, but it still "early".

The marketing/support, though, seems to be where most of the "success" is, currently.

The more awareness/content it gets, the better chance Slim will pick up more users.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Lucia Nightfire

[Marianne Little]

14 hours ago, Orwar said:

   I don't think it's 'filled up', but I do think that a side-effect of the avalanche of new bodies over the past year has been that people are more critical and careful about buying into new ones, and that creators being in a rather tough spot of figuring out what rigs to do adds to the suspense of whether a body will 'make it' or not - no one wants to be that fool that bought a body that no one ended up making clothes for, but if no one buys the body because they want to wait whether it gets supported by their favourite creators, the creators might perceive it as pointless to rig for it because no one uses it.

   From a technical point of view, I was very happy with C/C, it ticked a lot of boxes that appeals to me - but it was a little curvier than I liked and I figured I'd just sit back and see whether it would actually have anything made for it. Then I kind of forgot about it entirely, as I barely ever heard anyone talk about it or saw anyone make stuff for it. 

The bolded: It is why it is smarter, to sell 10 bodies for 1000 L each, than 2 bodies for 5000 L each.

From a creators point of view, it is "I put hours and hours of work in this body, I deserve at lest 5000 L for it".

But the creator get the same amount of money. He think that it is stupid to sell it cheap, because it will be seen as a cheap body. This is not true in SL, where amazing things is offered for cheap, and even given away. Price does not reflect on quality.

The lower the price, the lower risk for the buyer. If the body flops, it is not such a big loss. But the more people who use it, the more people ask for clothes and creators start to trust the brand. "I can rig for it, more and more people is using it". It is a positive loop. Those who were hesitating, see that it is rising in popularity. They buy the body, more creators rig for it, more people buy the body. 

And as I already said, it is easier for me to talk myself into buying something that it not expensive. I was going to buy Belleza Jake for the alt with Slink. Then I saw CZ Slim cost only 500 L more and I started thinking that I want it instead. I am so tired of Jake's bulging arms.

[Marianne Little]

7 hours ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

To be fair, it is still niche in terms of adoption/uptake.

I currently only see 25 users wearing Slim ATM, but it still "early".

The marketing/support, though, seems to be where most of the "success" is, currently.

The more awareness/content it gets, the better chance Slim will pick up more users.

I wonder if it a lot of people is using it for artistic photos? So the bodies discovered out and around in social places, may not reflect of what's bought for it. Females like me, have male alts, but we do not socialize with them. They are a creative thing, a dress up Ken doll.

I have become more and more introvert in SL.

And maybe some creators really wanted a thin body to rig for. because their fashion ideas look better on a slim frame? So they rig  because they think it's fun to not have the same bulky bodies.

Who knows, we shall see how it goes.

 

[Ze Helix]

16 hours ago, EliseAnne85 said:

  But, the picture I put up doesn't show how it might have been able to be shaped and I never tried a demo of it.

Of all the issues I had with C & C, this was the biggest for me. The sliders barely did anything. The shape you saw was the shape you got. I haven't seen another body that responds so poorly to the sliders. I really wonder what happened there because Physique and Hourglass don't have this problem.

[Sparkely Sugar]

To clarify some things as @AzureWavesposted Siddean is at this time not interested in selling. Secondly one body had a unique UV, the other was based on the SL UVs. While the C and C bodies where in production Siddean made it clear she was trying to create a more natural looking body. The beauty of SL is you can now choose the body you want to some degree. I do think she had more development planned for these bodies, but experiencing such tragic losses in succession at the same time your trying to release a product, will put anyone off their game.

I think with a different shapes the body was quite nice, the hands needed to be a bit smaller IMO. If you preferred a petite  slender av this body was not for you, nor would something like Kupra. There are plenty of people who wanted something more curvy shapely but not exaggerated. It is a shame the bodies did not gain popularity, perhaps one day she will return. She did a lot of innovative work for SL and would love to see her come back some day.

I do hope if nothing else LL has read and taken in some of the things that have been said about Nux, and that they release a really good body.

[Maitimo]

23 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

(Rationally they should just give it away full perm; it's not as if it's of any value for any other purpose than to support the body they're selling for a princely sum.

Personally, that's what I would have done but... that does kind of burn bridges if there's any possibility that she might come back in the future, and wants to release updates.

[Qie Niangao]

37 minutes ago, Maitimo said:

Personally, that's what I would have done but... that does kind of burn bridges if there's any possibility that she might come back in the future, and wants to release updates.

In that particular quote I was talking about the Legacy gadgets for manipulating Style settings if the HUD's MoaP-to-webserver broke, but yeah: personally I'd probably release the Slink stuff public domain, all the way down to mesh models and .psd files, iff I was sure I wasn't coming back… unless I really needed the money and thought it could fetch enough to offset the aggravation of selling the stuff to other creators.

… although, looking ahead, if the NUX bodies are released with all those assets for public reuse (which they better be, or the whole project was a complete waste of time), then it may not make much practical difference what happens to the Slink assets, except to a dwindling few folks.

[EliseAnne85]

5 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

The bolded: It is why it is smarter, to sell 10 bodies for 1000 L each, than 2 bodies for 5000 L each.

From a creators point of view, it is "I put hours and hours of work in this body, I deserve at lest 5000 L for it".

My opinion is, if, creators started making bodies that cheap, the market would be flooded, clothing creators would be way over worked and flooding the market with bodies could have the potential to be chaos.  However, I think 5000 L was over-priced for SLINK C&C when having so little modify-ability.  

However, your formula is correct.  I sold thousands of sculpty waterbed bedroom sets for 69 to 89 L each.  Yes, thousands.  If I had put a price of 699 L, I might have sold 3 not thousands.  One thousand waterbed sets at 69 L is 69000 L but if i'd only sold three at a higher price I would have made only 2097 L. But, the bedroom set market is a bit flooded, so I chose the cheap formula and sold in the thousands.  Creators can learn something from this formula, especially in tough economic times.  Some mesh creators at first wanted prices so high, it wasn't really worth those astronomical price tags.  They most definitely would have sold and made more money if the price was lower, this is why so many of us loved re-sale Gacha; way, way cheaper.  This formula still works today, not to mention we are in one of the craziest inflationary environments I've ever seen.  Raising prices on SL items isn't going to help these tough times.  I'd like to buy at some of these rock bottom prices for the older bodies.  Some sellers are practically giving stuff away the prices are so cheap for older bodies right now.   Just because something is older doesn't mean bad either.  I love retro stuff in real life.

Sorry for rambling on your remark, Marianne.  But, flooding the market with cheap bodies and expecting me to buy clothing for all of those, no thanks.  That's not my thing as I find shapes time consuming to make a really good one I'm happy with.  However, body sellers gotta play it as they see it.  Reducing prices on existing bodies if you want to make money now or especially if the economy takes a nosedive is not a bad idea.  Money is money.

[Psyche Starling]

7 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

I wonder if it a lot of people is using it for artistic photos? So the bodies discovered out and around in social places, may not reflect of what's bought for it. Females like me, have male alts, but we do not socialize with them. They are a creative thing, a dress up Ken doll.

I have become more and more introvert in SL.

And maybe some creators really wanted a thin body to rig for. because their fashion ideas look better on a slim frame? So they rig  because they think it's fun to not have the same bulky bodies.

Who knows, we shall see how it goes.

 

Good point! I really only have a human male alt to model things I'm making for men. He actually started as a satyr, which would be an NPC of sorts for an event that didn't pan out, and doubled as a convenient way to wander around Fantasy Faire anonymously, but I worked him up as a human later for fashion purposes.

[Pixieplumb Flanagan]

On 1/4/2023 at 2:48 PM, EliseAnne85 said:

  This post is for @Pixieplumb Flanagan too.  Pixieplumb, I sell both inworld and on MP but there is no business for me now, as I said, unless a special sale.  I am doing sales and having business but never experienced that before either.  I've always sold without sales too.  shrug

I wanted to say also that I've had a bad five months or so since gasoline prices shot up and inflation has been madness where I live. Six dollars for a loaf of bread is double the usual price before the war.

I'd love to visit your store, if you would drop me a landmark in world?  thanks

[ItHadToComeToThis]

No!!! Poor Ruth!!

Better idea....

NEW RUTH!

On a serious note, every time I have been to any in world meetings involving Lindens, I have mentioned either an update to the basic body or at least the inclusion of a base mesh body that people can work from.

Sadly, they never listen and insist on the 4 million mesh avatars they include in the library folder.

I personally loved how clothing and fashion worked back in the 2000s, you created a clothing or hair item and then had sliders you could modify the shape and then finish it with a texture.

I would love to see something like that implemented but more up to date. Imagine if we had clothing we could just create, shape and texture on the fly again or hair that we could shape and manipulate at will.

[EliseAnne85]

3 hours ago, Pixieplumb Flanagan said:

I'd love to visit your store, if you would drop me a landmark in world?  thanks

Awwwwwww thank you.   You are a kind person.  I am an alt, however, that's why no store or MP link is included in this profile.  I keep my business off the forum and not public.  It's just the why I prefer it.  It isn't really a store.  I rent in malls right now and have rented in malls off and on for years and done well to many people's surprise, that's why I said my rent is low in a different post, and I also have a small MP store.  I'm lucky that way in that if the economy turns badly for any reason, due to war escalation or whatever, I don't have to keep up the payment of a big sim for a store.  I feel for creators who do have to keep up a big sim if we run into an economic downturn.   But, thanks for the offer.   I thought that was really sweet of you because I can tell you that when one creates something new and original and it isn't bought, you begin to wonder is it you, was it awful, or the economy?  I thought my new collection was really cute and original but then I begin to think perhaps only I like it and it's a flop.  It's not a good feeling to have a flop.  I think SLINK's body had an interesting idea in that it was kind of more realistic female but it may not be what most SLer's want at the price she wanted. 

Edited January 6, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[Dorientje Woller]

Now, let's toss a wrench into the NUX bodies ... Created by Linden Labs. Who says that Linden Lab will not abuse their position as developpers of this body and also Second Life to force us to use these bodies and forbid others to create and sell mesh bodies? After all, it's an investment they are making and would likely to have a serious return on it, money wise.

[Stephanie Misfit]

On 1/6/2023 at 12:49 AM, EliseAnne85 said:

However, your formula is correct.  I sold thousands of sculpty waterbed bedroom sets for 69 to 89 L each.  Yes, thousands.  If I had put a price of 699 L, I might have sold 3 not thousands.  One thousand waterbed sets at 69 L is 69000 L but if i'd only sold three at a higher price I would have made only 2097 L.

You would be surprised, I think you shot yourself in the foot there, and this is coming from someone who sells furniture. Nobody should undersell their work in SL, especially when it is something like furniture that usually requires an investment in animations too (and sometimes a license agreement with animators about minimum selling price). 

[Marianne Little]

On 1/5/2023 at 2:49 PM, EliseAnne85 said:

My opinion is, if, creators started making bodies that cheap, the market would be flooded, clothing creators would be way over worked and flooding the market with bodies could have the potential to be chaos.  However, I think 5000 L was over-priced for SLINK C&C when having so little modify-ability.  ------------

YES! I would flood the market on purpose. Create chaos. Make people notice the body. 

And KILL the competition. The top bodies would be too big to die, but the rest? Poor Erika, I knew her well... but she must die. 😈

The goal would not be another totally okay body for 2500 - 3000 L that maybe 300 people buy. But an introduction offer too good to resist, and then people would want clothes for it. So those who rig, would start rigging for it, and drop other bodies.

Positive loop for me, negative loop for the other bodies.

I would increase the price after the introduction month was over. It would not be a surprise, I would make sure of that. But I would use it as gifts, have a SoMe competition every month - leave a like, post a comment, you may win a body. The lucky winner can take the body, or ask for it to be sent to an alt or a friend.

If I could make a mesh body, I could rig clothes? Hopefully? I would set clothes, jewelry, shoes, in weekend sales, then price it up to normal. I would count on people notice it in blogs, and buy the shirt, even if the price is 200 L now.

Maybe I would set up a vendor in my store, to give new avatars under 30 days a free body? Not to be kind, but to create more demand for clothes and stuff. If people used it for alts, does not matter. If people get the body, wear it and pick up stuff for it, even if it is 1 L stuff - win for me.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Marianne Little

[Theresa Tennyson]

3 hours ago, Dorientje Woller said:

Now, let's toss a wrench into the NUX bodies ... Created by Linden Labs. Who says that Linden Lab will not abuse their position as developpers of this body and also Second Life to force us to use these bodies and forbid others to create and sell mesh bodies? After all, it's an investment they are making and would likely to have a serious return on it, money wise.

How exactly would they do that? A mesh body is a plywood cube to the system, the same as everything else. Okay, that's a slight exaggeration. It's a plywood cube that acts like a mesh tank top.

And what would be the point? As they're not selling NUX bodies, the return on investment they're looking for is in people staying in SL longer and spending money. Why eliminate things they can spend money on?

[Ceka Cianci]

4 hours ago, Dorientje Woller said:

Now, let's toss a wrench into the NUX bodies ... Created by Linden Labs. Who says that Linden Lab will not abuse their position as developpers of this body and also Second Life to force us to use these bodies and forbid others to create and sell mesh bodies? After all, it's an investment they are making and would likely to have a serious return on it, money wise.

I have a feeling you aren't really being serious..

But i'm gonna give it a shot anyways..

Because creators create everything within second life and they run businesses that generate money that also generates money for LL.

Think about this..

What would happen to SL, if they all of a sudden deleted all of our inventories and made all of us just use everything from the library, rather than create our own creations?

Our world Our Imagination, just got thrown out the window and now nobody on the grid or LL make money anymore.

Nux bodies are about increasing the population of the grid by new users sticking around because of an improved starting point in the world..  New users not only bring in more income to the grid, but also bring in more new creators or those maybe finding out later they want to be..

LL cutting off creators would be like putting a clamp on main arteries to their own heart .. No creators, no grid..

 

 

 

 

[EliseAnne85]

7 hours ago, Stephanie Misfit said:

You would be surprised, I think you shot yourself in the foot there, and this is coming from someone who sells furniture. Nobody should undersell their work in SL, especially when it is something like furniture that usually requires an investment in animations too (and sometimes a license agreement with animators about minimum selling price). 

No, no minimum selling price on my pre-Bento animations for my sculpties of yore.  There are no licenses I have on any current animations, none, including Bento.  So, I don't know who you buy from.  The only stipulation is to not give out animations full perm.  Also, all my scripts, no minimum, just not full perm.  And, I don't believe it was underselling for my sculpties.  

Edited January 7, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[EliseAnne85]

4 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

YES! I would flood the market on purpose. Create chaos. Make people notice the body. 

And KILL the competition. The top bodies would be too big to die, but the rest? Poor Erika, I knew her well... but she must die. 😈

The goal would not be another totally okay body for 2500 - 3000 L that maybe 300 people buy. But an introduction offer too good to resist, and then people would want clothes for it. So those who rig, would start rigging for it, and drop other bodies.

Positive loop for me, negative loop for the other bodies.

I would increase the price after the introduction month was over. It would not be a surprise, I would make sure of that. But I would use it as gifts, have a SoMe competition every month - leave a like, post a comment, you may win a body. The lucky winner can take the body, or ask for it to be sent to an alt or a friend.

If I could make a mesh body, I could rig clothes? Hopefully? I would set clothes, jewelry, shoes, in weekend sales, then price it up to normal. I would count on people notice it in blogs, and buy the shirt, even if the price is 200 L now.

Maybe I would set up a vendor in my store, to give new avatars under 30 days a free body? Not to be kind, but to create more demand for clothes and stuff. If people used it for alts, does not matter. If people get the body, wear it and pick up stuff for it, even if it is 1 L stuff - win for me.

I misunderstood you Marianne when I replied.  I thought you were saying for tons of creators to make 1000 L bodies, which would flood the market with many cheap bodies which would be chaos for creators to make all those clothes for 40, 50, 60, etc... different bodies.  

However, if we do go into an economic downtown, I don't think it's a bad idea to have the current bodies priced in the Maitreya range.  They'd sell more.   If I were creator of one of the current bodies priced higher than Maitreya, I'd lower prices.  We are in a war that is affecting the main populace of SL.

Edited January 7, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[Ceka Cianci]

5 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

YES! I would flood the market on purpose. Create chaos. Make people notice the body. 

And KILL the competition. The top bodies would be too big to die, but the rest? Poor Erika, I knew her well... but she must die. 😈

The goal would not be another totally okay body for 2500 - 3000 L that maybe 300 people buy. But an introduction offer too good to resist, and then people would want clothes for it. So those who rig, would start rigging for it, and drop other bodies.

Positive loop for me, negative loop for the other bodies.

I would increase the price after the introduction month was over. It would not be a surprise, I would make sure of that. But I would use it as gifts, have a SoMe competition every month - leave a like, post a comment, you may win a body. The lucky winner can take the body, or ask for it to be sent to an alt or a friend.

If I could make a mesh body, I could rig clothes? Hopefully? I would set clothes, jewelry, shoes, in weekend sales, then price it up to normal. I would count on people notice it in blogs, and buy the shirt, even if the price is 200 L now.

Maybe I would set up a vendor in my store, to give new avatars under 30 days a free body? Not to be kind, but to create more demand for clothes and stuff. If people used it for alts, does not matter. If people get the body, wear it and pick up stuff for it, even if it is 1 L stuff - win for me.

Blocks your attempt of the elimination of Erika body, Because I haz Magik like DAT!!! \o/

[Blaise Glendevon]

10 hours ago, Dorientje Woller said:

Now, let's toss a wrench into the NUX bodies ... Created by Linden Labs. Who says that Linden Lab will not abuse their position as developpers of this body and also Second Life to force us to use these bodies and forbid others to create and sell mesh bodies? After all, it's an investment they are making and would likely to have a serious return on it, money wise.

 

First, NUX is literally what it says on the tin - the New User eXperience. If they meant it to be The New Standard Body, they would have called it that. And second off, they have no interest in decreasing the amount of lindens users buy. $L 5K for a body, $L 5K for a head. Hair, skins, clothing to match. All of these things are desirable to the Lab, because they get a bite of the apple when users purchase Linden Dollars and when merchants cash them out into RL currency.