LL should buy the Cinnamon and Chai bodies from Slink

[Sparkely Sugar]

49 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

The NUX Avatars can't be better than the better products out there sold by the users running businesses here or LL would be going in direct competition with it's residents.. Their goal is to make a better starting point for new users to help retain new users, not to piss off the Mesh business world and start having them close their doors.

Of course it can and it should be, it should be the standard the mesh body makers aspire to. LL making a good quality av is a basic item they should be providing the user base. LL is not a charity here to support people's businesses to the detriment of SL. First and foremost the most important thing to LL should be attracting new users, and user retention.If that means that body makers or any other content creator has to retool then that's what it means. 

The advent of mesh on the grid put a lot of people our of business, when LL changed gaming policy it put a lot of people out of business. The Linden homes on Bellesaria created changes in the rental market, the upcoming changes with premium plus will cause more.  SL used to have a thriving gaming community that was killed when gambling was restricted. SL used to have a thriving ballgown and Ballroom community which is now virtually non existent. I could quote many more examples of changes LL has made that changed businesses, some for the better some for the worse. You just need to look through SL history and see the changes.

The nature of SL business is change, adapt and progress, how many of you have flexi hair or shoes from stiletto moody in your inventory? Should we not have mesh bodies because her business died? How many of you have an old head from Lelutka that where static, not comparable to the head they make now?

Currently SL is still ahead in the "Metaverse" race but it wont be forever, there need to be real solutions and quickly or SL will die a slow and painful death. I personally do not want to see that happen. I do agree a solution so that new residents do not have to mix and match is the ideal, to say it should be substandard to what we currently have is not. That system is not here, and while one can hope its a couple of months away there is not guarantee of that. My suggestion was a quick fix for the interim.

Do you really think other companies trying to develop a Metaverse out there are thinking we should develop a substandard avatar to attract new users? What kind of business sense would that be?

We need to remember what where the things that made SL great what made you want to be here and to log in  again and again. There are dozens of different answers to that question. My answer will not be your answer, nor should it be. SL is great because of the diversity, the immense level of creativity, talent and imagination that it allows. SL is not great when just trying to get in the door it is an act of frustration.

 

 

 

 

[Sparkely Sugar]

25 minutes ago, AzureWaves said:

That has never stopped LL before. And why worry about competition? Putting such a basic but important product solely in the hands of resident businesses will result in what we have now.. some of them leaving, leaving customers to scramble for other options. LL should want to offer the best body out there, that doesn’t mean the alternatives won’t thrive, they will,  because there’s no way LL will be able to keep up with all the quirky demands of the customers. 

Exactly, I love, love, love that we have body diversity with mesh bodies and addons, but the basic avatar body should be from LL. If people think people will stop buying bodys or heads from creators they are obviously not in tune with what drives SL, we are a consumer economy. We like new different and variety. How many different pairs of jeans, hairstyles, heads skins do we own. The notion that a good body from LL would destroy the mesh body business is ludicrous.

[Theresa Tennyson]

9 hours ago, Sparkely Sugar said:

Siddean has put an amazing amount of work into these bodies/ She was one of the original creators making mesh hands feet then bodies and has been an amazing resources to anyone wanting to learn how to mesh. When so many body creators will not give a kit, Siddean was so kind and allowed people the opportunity to get the kit and learn.

I understand that LL has been working on a body, but it is still not available, with no release date at this time. This is a great opportunity for LL, this is a current, optimized body that can be used right now. This would allow new people to get a current body, people who want to create a kit to work with and try and learn to make clothing.

One of the fundamental things that attracted me to LL was the ability to make clothing, to learn, and share my creations. This is one of the things I feel is sorely lacking these days in SL,it is so difficult to create with the learning curve, and even more difficult when you have no access to the developer kits.

LL don't miss this opportunity, see if some kind of deal can be worked out, this would be a benefit to everyone on the grid and to SL.

@Patch Linden

I'm a big Slink fan, so I'll say it right here - Cinnamon and Chai was a hot, hot ol' mess. The shape was odd and made avatar styling difficult and the demo I tried meant that at least one slider worked backwards. Sometimes putting an amazing lot of work into something means that it wasn't a good idea in the first place.

If the Lab is going to buy any assets from Slink I'd suggest just buying the old Physique Redux bodies, which have at least some market viability.

[Ceka Cianci]

37 minutes ago, AzureWaves said:

That has never stopped LL before. And why worry about competition? Putting such a basic but important product solely in the hands of resident businesses will result in what we have now.. some of them leaving, leaving customers to scramble for other options. LL should want to offer the best body out there, that doesn’t mean the alternatives won’t thrive, they will,  because there’s no way LL will be able to keep up with all the quirky demands of the customers. 

Well I guess it's stopping them this time and I guess the proof will be in the pudding once the NUX is out for awhile..

It also won't leave them with what we have now.. They will start off much better.. what we have right now is a big horrible mess of mixed up parts that they have to try and figure out how to put together which takes way too long for the start of any new world..

The nux is already put together with a complete set of things made for it, so they will be able to go from mesh to mesh.. The starting line  will be moved from nothing to much more adaptable parts.

The NUX is already coming, so it's all really kind of  just arguing to argue about what they should  do now..

 LL is worried about new user retention and updating the old avatars from system avatars to updated mesh.. They aren't looking to get into the market themselves as well as compete with other businesses along the way.. If anything it's to help build them up..

Making the start point much more tolerable is going to help with retaining more new users, because even with the mess we have right now,we still are retaining some of them.. hehehe

 

 

 

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Ceka Cianci

[steeljane42]

34 minutes ago, AzureWaves said:

That has never stopped LL before.

And what exactly LL has released to compete with their own residents? I can't remember a single thing in a decade I'm around. The tech, like bento and animesh, and some others? It did provide users with more tools to create better products and compete with older products. Belliseria doesn't compete with private estates either as it's completely different product/experience aimed at the different customers.

44 minutes ago, AzureWaves said:

Putting such a basic but important product solely in the hands of resident businesses will result in what we have now.. some of them leaving, leaving customers to scramble for other options.

Those customers may continue to use their products as they are not going to vanish anywhere. Besides with how badly supported those products were in the last few years the remaining customers had enough reasons and time to find other options.

 

[Ceka Cianci]

16 minutes ago, Sparkely Sugar said:

Of course it can and it should be, it should be the standard the mesh body makers aspire to. LL making a good quality av is a basic item they should be providing the user base. LL is not a charity here to support people's businesses to the detriment of SL. First and foremost the most important thing to LL should be attracting new users, and user retention.If that means that body makers or any other content creator has to retool then that's what it means. 

The advent of mesh on the grid put a lot of people our of business, when LL changed gaming policy it put a lot of people out of business. The Linden homes on Bellesaria created changes in the rental market, the upcoming changes with premium plus will cause more.  SL used to have a thriving gaming community that was killed when gambling was restricted. SL used to have a thriving ballgown and Ballroom community which is now virtually non existent. I could quote many more examples of changes LL has made that changed businesses, some for the better some for the worse. You just need to look through SL history and see the changes.

The nature of SL business is change, adapt and progress, how many of you have flexi hair or shoes from stiletto moody in your inventory? Should we not have mesh bodies because her business died? How many of you have an old head from Lelutka that where static, not comparable to the head they make now?

Currently SL is still ahead in the "Metaverse" race but it wont be forever, there need to be real solutions and quickly or SL will die a slow and painful death. I personally do not want to see that happen. I do agree a solution so that new residents do not have to mix and match is the ideal, to say it should be substandard to what we currently have is not. That system is not here, and while one can hope its a couple of months away there is not guarantee of that. My suggestion was a quick fix for the interim.

Do you really think other companies trying to develop a Metaverse out there are thinking we should develop a substandard avatar to attract new users? What kind of business sense would that be?

We need to remember what where the things that made SL great what made you want to be here and to log in  again and again. There are dozens of different answers to that question. My answer will not be your answer, nor should it be. SL is great because of the diversity, the immense level of creativity, talent and imagination that it allows. SL is not great when just trying to get in the door it is an act of frustration.

 

 

 

 

Let me reword  this.. It is not their goal to compete with the Mesh head and Mesh body, clothes, hair and whatever else creators..  Their goal with this project is to update and improve on their starter avatars to improve the new user experience, which has needed serious, serious work for awhile now..

After rerunning through it myself a few months back, limiting myself as if I came in with a blank slate and knew nothing at all.. I could not give  the avatar any money, could not use any knowledge I already know to make anything easier.. only what i learned on the way and only money that I made could I use.. No viewer experience or anything.. everything had to be learned and found out..

this was the best that I could do after all the trial and error  and mix and matching over a like two weeks.. you want to talk about frustrating.. omg I was ripping hair out because I knew the way but couldn't use what I knew..

Looking at it from our perspective of what we already know, is much different than someone coming in not knowing anything or what's out there yet..

The best way to get a feel for what is really needed is to run it yourself  from the ground perspective of a brand new mindset..

It's much more exciting discovering new and better things than it is to be handed end game at the start..

Better start avatars will give them less time learning how to mix and match and open up more SL world...

Right now it's all taken up by getting an avatar built and then getting out there.. Now they can get out there much much sooner..

They don't need the best of the best at the very start to stick around.. think about when you first came and  how new things you learned or found  only excited you more about this world..

I work with new users all the time and when they learn something new, they are excited and it grabs them even more..

I remember  when I was new.. I thought my default avatar was hot.. lol ,then the more I went out into the world got excited when I seen how I could improve.. then learning that and  then seeing even more and still today enjoying doing that..

The Nux I feel is going to work, because it will be more than good enough to get them on the ground and moving.. not keeping them in one spot for much longer than they need to be just spinni their wheels until they have had enough and just quit.

 

[ChinRey]

42 minutes ago, Sparkely Sugar said:

Of course it can and it should be, it should be the standard the mesh body makers aspire to. LL making a good quality av is a basic item they should be providing the user base. LL is not a charity here to support people's businesses to the detriment of SL.

LL is making good money from the mesh body business. They get a share from every MP sale, they get tier from every in-world store and they charge a fee every time a merchant withdraws money from SL.

If LL wanted to outcompete the commercial mesh bodies, they could simply upgrade the system avatar. The system avatar is a mesh body, allbeit a very outdated one, and apart from some seriously out-of-the-ordinary avatars there's nothing an add-on mesh body can do that couldn't have been done easier and more efficiently with an upgrade.

Another alternative for them would be to buy a license for a pair of ready-made commercial mesh bodies. This is what at least one of the popular mesh body makers did and LL could too. It would have to be rigged to the SL skeleton and mapped to the SL UV map of course but it would still be much easier than making a brand new mesh body from scratch.

The only sensible reason why they do neither is that they want to keep the mesh body/head business alive.

Edited January 2, 2023 by ChinRey

[Ceka Cianci]

52 minutes ago, Sparkely Sugar said:

Exactly, I love, love, love that we have body diversity with mesh bodies and addons, but the basic avatar body should be from LL. If people think people will stop buying bodys or heads from creators they are obviously not in tune with what drives SL, we are a consumer economy. We like new different and variety. How many different pairs of jeans, hairstyles, heads skins do we own. The notion that a good body from LL would destroy the mesh body business is ludicrous.

I didn't say it would destroy  it, I said it would piss  them off.. Big difference there.. hehehe

[Qie Niangao]

Regardless of the value of this suggestion—about which I have strong and opposing reactions that pretty much cancel each other out anyway—it's high time posters to this forum are spared this witless blight that's been imposed on most of the contributions to this thread:

Whether we agree or disagree with the posters' positions, they do not deserve this crap. Enough already, Moderators.

[AzureWaves]

What makes a mesh body successful? Creators support. If the NUX body is basic and less than what’s available, then creators will not create for it and it’ll just be dead on arrival. If LL really said they aim to make a basic body to not compete with the resident businesses, I’m shocked. There are many bodies that didn’t get adopted even though they’re actually not bad, because creators didn’t adopt it. 

[AzureWaves]

6 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Regardless of the value of this suggestion—about which I have strong and opposing reactions that pretty much cancel each other out anyway—it's high time posters to this forum are spared this witless blight that's been imposed on most of the contributions to this thread:

Whether we agree or disagree with the posters' positions, they do not deserve this crap. Enough already, Moderators.

Laugh emoji is so dumb and used by forum trolls. 

[Marianne Little]

If LL should buy anything from Slink, it should be the male and female bodies that came out first.

For Cinnamon and Chai is only female bodies. 

It was mentioned in the other thread, that Siddean could release the source files for the community. It would be much better if the SL community had them instead of LL. Residents they could edit and add scripts of whatever, maybe retrofit the alpha cuts to use with the body bundle. As far as I know, the alpha cuts was what people missed most.

Quote from the poster under:

"I'm done supporting this, here's the source files so someone else can take over" is something we see in software a lot, for example.

 

 

[Sparkely Sugar]

2 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

If LL should buy anything from Slink, it should be the male and female bodies that came out first.

For Cinnamon and Chai is only female bodies. 

It was mentioned in the other thread, that Siddean could release the source files for the community. It would be much better if the SL community had them instead of LL. Residents they could edit and add scripts of whatever, maybe retrofit the alpha cuts to use with the body bundle. As far as I know, the alpha cuts was what people missed most.

Quote from the poster under:

"I'm done supporting this, here's the source files so someone else can take over" is something we see in software a lot, for example.

 

 

that would be an option as well

 

[Love Zhaoying]

17 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Regardless of the value of this suggestion—about which I have strong and opposing reactions that pretty much cancel each other out anyway—it's high time posters to this forum are spared this witless blight that's been imposed on most of the contributions to this thread:

Whether we agree or disagree with the posters' positions, they do not deserve this crap. Enough already, Moderators.

Klytina used to post / write / "speak". I assume she just can't anymore (due to any reason- physical disability or otherwise). What if YOU could only "react"?

[Qie Niangao]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Klytina used to post / write / "speak". I assume she just can't anymore (due to any reason- physical disability or otherwise). What if YOU could only "react"?

It's blatant harassment, whatever ails her.

[Love Zhaoying]

Someone on the Forum collects information on "most popular mesh bodies and heads", ranked by usage seen in-world. I forget who, but didn't see in this thread: where does Slink fall in the most recent rankings? If towards the bottom, that says a lot.

[AzureWaves]

I wear Maitreya now, but if Maitreya disappeared, I would just go around as a floating head because all the other bodies look like blown up ballon animals with huge butts. The popular mesh list doesn’t say much in regards to good taste.

Edited January 2, 2023 by AzureWaves

[Ceka Cianci]

17 minutes ago, AzureWaves said:

What makes a mesh body successful? Creators support. If the NUX body is basic and less than what’s available, then creators will not create for it and it’ll just be dead on arrival. If LL really said they aim to make a basic body to not compete with the resident businesses, I’m shocked. There are many bodies that didn’t get adopted even though they’re actually not bad, because creators didn’t adopt it. 

The thing is, they will be born in them.. So they already will be worn by everyone that enters the world.. Now it's a matter of getting them out of the Nux.. Not everyone is jumping to go spend 5k  or 4k or 3 k on a mesh body and head.. Some never will..

Some will just be satisfied with what they were born with and what it can do..

What makes the other bodies successful is first getting users in them.. If they move on to better things that is good, if they don't and are happy with where they are at with theri avatars, that's good too..

It's kind of a win win position for the whole community really..

 

[Marianne Little]

7 minutes ago, Sparkely Sugar said:

that would be an option as well

 

Another option, instead of full permissions, put Modify versions in the update terminal. 

Users who have a modify product, can do a lot with it, and share things with others. Like Belleza Jake, it took only a few weeks before somebody had a script that made the body a lot lighter in complexity.

Furries would like to have a human body that is mod, they can use it with a furry head and maybe paws. It could give Slink a new spring.

And also, no need to have support for a modify body. Inexperienced people could mess with it, learn to edit, and rez a new copy if they screw up.

The bodies could be sold on the Marketplace for a low price and the information: NO support. 

[Sparkely Sugar]

@Ceka CianciI agree with many of your points about what the new user needs, where we digress is in quality. If Nux is a good quality body av creators would create for it, if people would keep using it. I am in complete disagreement that creators should be in control of the base body. If LL had addressed this years ago the mess we have now would not be such chaos. In my opinion bodies sold by creators should be offering variety, diversity, and options not available using a base av. It should not be what I "have" to buy xyz body to look good and buy clothing in SL.

If it is not a good body that people enjoy and continue to wear after a week or two creators will not waste their time creating for it.

 

[Ceka Cianci]

2 minutes ago, Sparkely Sugar said:

@Ceka CianciI agree with many of your points about what the new user needs, where we digress is in quality. If Nux is a good quality body av creators would create for it, if people would keep using it. I am in complete disagreement that creators should be in control of the base body. If LL had addressed this years ago the mess we have now would not be such chaos. In my opinion bodies sold by creators should be offering variety, diversity, and options not available using a base av. It should not be what I "have" to buy xyz body to look good and buy clothing in SL.

If it is not a good body that people enjoy and continue to wear after a week or two creators will not waste their time creating for it.

 

I agree it shouldn't be a crap body and I really agree that the control should not be in the hands of a few creators/users..

Mesh pulled a lot of the control we once had, from a lot of the user base to where we are now shoppers more than creators.. We are cut off from dev kits by creator restrictions.

The preview we had of the NUX avatar really doesn't look like it is junk.. I don't think the goal was to put out something  just a little better than the older avatars.. They do look really good and I love that they come with so much, plus a dev kit..

I think the dev kit is giving a chance back to any user that feels like taking up creating clothes or whatever in mesh.. a really good learning tool for if they want to move in that direction.. That alone kind of excited me about the NUX..

My main concern is, we have needed a mesh starting point for a long time and now we are getting  one.. I also agree it's been a long time coming and would have been much better if we would have had the tools and mesh avatars much sooner, it would have been much better for everyone..  It just feels like we have lost so much in the creativity that we used to have to choose from  years ago.. it feels much more like a narrow road rather than spread out..

I hope  it gives opportunity to more creative people than before..

Times gonna tell and it's all gonna come out in the wash after they come out..  I do have my fingers crossed for them working out  the best for all of us..

 

[Qie Niangao]

15 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Someone on the Forum collects information on "most popular mesh bodies and heads", ranked by usage seen in-world. I forget who, but didn't see in this thread: where does Slink fall in the most recent rankings? If towards the bottom, that says a lot.

Pretty sure you're thinking of @Lucia Nightfire who collects such data and posted a sample to the forums in July (and possibly more recently, that was what I got with a quick forums search). Slink in general is still ranking—and even trending—above some others one might expect to be more popular by now, but I'm not seeing anything for Chai or Cinnamon.

[Sid Nagy]

My 2 cents: LL should not save an inworld company that goes belly up or it should be one, that threatens to take down SL with it when it stops over night.
I can see that LL took over Caspervent as a precaution measure (among other things for their own benefit) and when Anshe would go belly up over night the lab will have no other choice than the step in to sort out the mess that would occur then, I guess.
But there are enough excellent body and fashion producers left.
No need to intervene here at all.  SL will live as happy as before the close down of SLink.

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Sid Nagy

[Gwin LeShelle]

Lol really the people at LL must hate the forums sometimes...they aquire things like Caspervend? Same people start to howl how bad this will be and how could they?.. that are now in here wanting LL to buy a body that no one wanted.

I loved Sid and her wits and she always was nice, I owned all the feet and all her hands, I owned physique and hourglass and all her heads because as a blogger back then you needed to and honestly her heads were not pretty to put it nicely, they never sold good so please they don't need to be saved.

And the bodies have really weird proportions (for my taste) and they never took off as the later bodies did, for reasons, the only plus side she had was hourglass because that shape of body was a niche back then, but as soon as others came into that niche game it faded out pretty quickly too. And the cinnamon and chai? I bet not many people even bothered to grab a demo for them at all.

As sad as it is to see Sid leaving and especially for her pain, but LL shouldn't but those bodies out of nostalgia, they have other things to focus on to push the grid forward.

I wish Sid that she finds new happiness and fulfilment in whatever adventure there is for her out there next. And I also wish for her to look back all happy and proud. But to focus on her future and health.

[Sid Nagy]

49 minutes ago, AzureWaves said:

I wear Maitreya now, but if Maitreya disappeared, I would just go around as a floating head because all the other bodies look like blown up ballon animals with huge butts. The popular mesh list doesn’t say much in regards to good taste.

So far only people with a total mess in their inventory could be in trouble when they use SLink stuff.
One can't buy it any longer or get a re-delivery, but nothing has broken in ones inventory the moment the store closed.
So if Maitreya would follow suit with SLink, God forbids, one could still use their bodies and stuff.