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Found a funny little permissions bug


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I've seen this before, but had forgotten about it. I might file a Jira later if I can't find a pre-existing one.

I made some mesh, and was passing it to my alt for listing on the MP. My mesh gets imported as full perm to save time mucking about. I checked... it is full perms as is all the texturing etc.

Several copies (different texturing) of it went in a rezzed prim which I took and passed to my alt. The box was full perms too.

My alt rezzed and edited the box, using the permissions change button in the box's inventory to set all the meshes to no-transfer, for sale. Then he opened and unpacked the box into main inventory.

Fine - listed on the MP, I can pass a copy of the mesh to back to myself from his inventory but that passed copy is then no transfer for me, as it should be. I know what I'm doing with permissions ;)

However... if that alt rezzes a (supposedly full perm for him) copy on the floor to make a demo version, the rezzed mesh instatly becomes no-transfer for my alt! Even though it was most definitely passed to him as full perms and had been full perms from the moment is was uploaded. It's as if the permission change he made while the mesh was in the box, gets applied to current owner as well as next owner when the item is unpacked and rezzed.

This is not the delayed permission change that happens if you change perms in main inventory, then put the thing in a box and give to someone else but the permissions don't change until the item is rezzed. It might be related, but is different. I did no permissions changes in inventory; the item stayed at full perms the whole while until the above change by my alt.

 

 

Edited by Rick Daylight
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10 hours ago, Rick Daylight said:

I've seen this before, but had forgotten about it. I might file a Jira later if I can't find a pre-existing one.

I made some mesh, and was passing it to my alt for listing on the MP. My mesh gets imported as full perm to save time mucking about. I checked... it is full perms as is all the texturing etc.

Several copies (different texturing) of it went in a rezzed prim which I took and passed to my alt. The box was full perms too.

My alt rezzed and edited the box, using the permissions change button in the box's inventory to set all the meshes to no-transfer, for sale. Then he opened and unpacked the box into main inventory.

Fine - listed on the MP, I can pass a copy of the mesh to back to myself from his inventory but that passed copy is then no transfer for me, as it should be. I know what I'm doing with permissions ;)

However... if that alt rezzes a (supposedly full perm for him) copy on the floor to make a demo version, the rezzed mesh instatly becomes no-transfer for my alt! Even though it was most definitely passed to him as full perms and had been full perms from the moment is was uploaded. It's as if the permission change he made while the mesh was in the box, gets applied to current owner as well as next owner when the item is unpacked and rezzed.

This is not the delayed permission change that happens if you change perms in main inventory, then put the thing in a box and give to someone else but the permissions don't change until the item is rezzed. It might be related, but is different. I did no permissions changes in inventory; the item stayed at full perms the whole while until the above change by my alt.

 

 

File a bug report if you think you've found a bug. https://jira.secondlife.com/

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I'm not immediately seeing what's going on here, but it's difficult to imagine nobody ever before observed such behavior when following a relatively simple operation. It does seem unintuitive, unless we're missing something. The jira has great, detailed step-by-step descriptions with images; one thing I'd suggest in future might be Build/Options/"Show Advanced Permissions" which gives the detail shown in the wiki "Debug Permissions" article that I have to consult every time I need to remind myself how the slam bit works. (I gave it a quick try and didn't see anything obvious here, though, so I wouldn't re-do anything.)

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@Qie Niangao "Slam-bit" - that's the term I was trying to remember earlier. I have the advanced permissions turned on in Firestorm but forgot to do it when I tested this in the official viewer.

I agree, I find it hard to believe this hasn't been seen before; it's why I posted here first. It isn't like the slam-bit thing I know about though.

The objects in question have been set to full perms (default in the viewer settings) from the moment they were rezzed, and have been rezzed multiple times before finally being boxed up (in a rezzed, full perms box) and given to my alt.

If my alt unpacks that box, the items inside remain full perm when rezzed and from that point onwards, as expected. No problems. So it's not the slam-bit having effect there.

However, if the alt changes perms in the box, then unpacks it, the new permissions he applied are applied to him too, when the item is rezzed. Slam-bit in effect... but why when the items were full perm to begin with?

The advanced permissions show:

Box as given to alt: B,O,N,F all show VMCT, as expected.

Test object pulled out of box into inventory (with no change to perms) and rezzed: shows as above.

Test object changed to No-Trans while in box's inventory, pulled out into inventory (shows full perm in there), then rezzed: B,O,N,F now are all set to VMC. The alt has lost the Transfer permissions as well as the next owner when the item is rezzed.

Whichever permissions I set while inside the box are set as above, not just transfer. I can make the item no-mod for the alt (while the alt has it) by setting it no mod in the box, pulling it out (still mod in inventory - I can rename it) and rezzing it (now gets no-mod).

Weird, huh?

Edited by Rick Daylight
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  • 1 month later...

My Jira has just been closed as "working as expected" and I was pointed to the slam bit page. Well... yes and no having done further reading. I think this is a case of "as expected" meaning "it's a bit broken, but we aren't going to fix that so it's now as expected"

This, which I admit I didn't read before, is linked from the slam bit page: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-8223

It seems that objects given to another avatar, are not considered to be given to that avatar until that avatar rezzes the item. Until it is rezzed, changes made to the permissions while in inventory (which seems to include being inside a rezzed box) are applied as if they are being made by the now previous owner. So, my alt changing permissions on a really full perm item given to them while in a box sets next-owner permissions that apply to that alt as if I had changed them before handing it over.

If that's really as was intended, I'm a two-headed donkey. Heee-haawwww!

Edited by Rick Daylight
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  • 1 month later...
On 12/10/2022 at 8:25 AM, Rick Daylight said:

I've seen this before, but had forgotten about it. I might file a Jira later if I can't find a pre-existing one.

I made some mesh, and was passing it to my alt for listing on the MP. My mesh gets imported as full perm to save time mucking about. I checked... it is full perms as is all the texturing etc.

Several copies (different texturing) of it went in a rezzed prim which I took and passed to my alt. The box was full perms too.

My alt rezzed and edited the box, using the permissions change button in the box's inventory to set all the meshes to no-transfer, for sale. Then he opened and unpacked the box into main inventory.

Fine - listed on the MP, I can pass a copy of the mesh to back to myself from his inventory but that passed copy is then no transfer for me, as it should be. I know what I'm doing with permissions ;)

However... if that alt rezzes a (supposedly full perm for him) copy on the floor to make a demo version, the rezzed mesh instatly becomes no-transfer for my alt! Even though it was most definitely passed to him as full perms and had been full perms from the moment is was uploaded. It's as if the permission change he made while the mesh was in the box, gets applied to current owner as well as next owner when the item is unpacked and rezzed.

This is not the delayed permission change that happens if you change perms in main inventory, then put the thing in a box and give to someone else but the permissions don't change until the item is rezzed. It might be related, but is different. I did no permissions changes in inventory; the item stayed at full perms the whole while until the above change by my alt.

 

 

I've seen that, and it's what causes you to go absolutely crazy just before an event when you think everything is ready.

And here's another one I've observed repeatedly:

If an item on mod/copy/no transfer contains within it another item to be rezzed on touch, and that items is on no mod/copy/transfer (like a cup of coffee), that status of "no mod/copy/transfer" seems to "infect" the container prim so that it, too, appears in the contents of a box to be on no mod/copy/transfer. Which is obviously worrisome. I have fussed endlessly with this and discovered that if I send the box in this condition to a no-perms alt,, when he pulls it out, the items are properly on no-transfer when set as such, and on copy/transfer when set as such.

Probably nothing can be done about this.

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On 1/12/2023 at 5:37 PM, Rick Daylight said:

My Jira has just been closed as "working as expected" and I was pointed to the slam bit page. Well... yes and no having done further reading. I think this is a case of "as expected" meaning "it's a bit broken, but we aren't going to fix that so it's now as expected"

This, which I admit I didn't read before, is linked from the slam bit page: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-8223

It seems that objects given to another avatar, are not considered to be given to that avatar until that avatar rezzes the item. Until it is rezzed, changes made to the permissions while in inventory (which seems to include being inside a rezzed box) are applied as if they are being made by the now previous owner. So, my alt changing permissions on a really full perm item given to them while in a box sets next-owner permissions that apply to that alt as if I had changed them before handing it over.

If that's really as was intended, I'm a two-headed donkey. Heee-haawwww!

I'm familiar with the "slam bit" story, there's this long and confusing entry, but I'm not sure that's always what is happening. It seems to me that there two stages to this:

1) what happens when you pick up or copy the item into inventory -- it can then lose "mod" for some reason, and you have to re-check "mod". Or "copy". The wiki tells you not to change permissions in inventory, yet if you don't, and you put them even into a permed alt's box, you won't be able to change it to mod. So you simply have to do that while in inventory.

2) what happens when you put said item into a box to be sold -- there you can set the permissions blanket fashion by highlighting them all, or look at them one by one. But as I noted, an item seemingly on copy-transfer -- which wasn't set that way but which appears "infected" by the prim within it which is on copy/transfer -- in fact is *not* on copy/transfer once the second avatar gets the box and rezzes it out.

 

Edited by Prokofy Neva
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