Evangeline Arcadia Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 (edited) I've had some problems recently, whereas I don't normally have issues in SL. Things rezzing really slowly (some partially or not at all too), avatar 'freezing' whilst running for a few seconds, and strange geometric shapes appearing in view - not sure if that's an SL issue or computer (I have a relatively new computer thought with decent graphics card). I've had to keep my draw distance lower than normalto avoid it. Edited November 27, 2022 by Evangeline Arcadia 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amnesia Babii Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 Me too it's been going on for awhile, it is very annoying when you are trying to decorate, landscape or take pictures Sometimes relogging fixes the issue but not always for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Nagy Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 (edited) I wonder, are there still police departments in SL where one can report their stuff is stolen/missing? Edited November 27, 2022 by Sid Nagy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whirly Fizzle Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 Sounds like BUG-232625 - Teleporting between locations on the same sim causes some buildings not to render Does toggling wireframe re-render the invisible objects? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindal Kidd Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 4 hours ago, Whirly Fizzle said: Sounds like BUG-232625 - Teleporting between locations on the same sim causes some buildings not to render Does toggling wireframe re-render the invisible objects? No. At least for me, the problem occurs when teleporting to a different region, not to another spot in the same region. And no, toggling wireframe doesn't make the missing things appear. (I occasionally get the problem you are describing, and CTRL+SHIFT+R does fix it. But the missing objects are REALLY missing, it's a different issue. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 I have experienced the issue that Whirly linked to, but in this case, as others have mentioned, the items really are not there. Clicking where they should be does not make them appear. Going in and out of wireframe does not make them appear. Using Area Search does not find them. For buildings that would normally be solid, you can actually walk right through where the walls are supposed to be. In the case of the linked Bug, the items are physically there, but not rendered to the viewer. They will still show on an Area Search. If a building with solid walls is there but not showing, you will not be able to walk through where the walls are, even though you cannot see them -- similar to if you simply did a Temp Derender on them. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animats Posted November 28, 2022 Author Share Posted November 28, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, LittleMe Jewell said: For buildings that would normally be solid, you can actually walk right through where the walls are supposed to be. Woah! That's entirely server side. If that's correct, something is really wrong server side. Are you sure? I've been visiting the busiest regions today, and not seeing any fails. Edited November 28, 2022 by animats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriele Graves Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 I'm not seeing this issue where the objects aren't being sent as far as I know. One of the objects that commonly doesn't render for me is the mesh building of my hangout. If I were experiencing this server side issue, I would rez in and fall to the ground which is about 40m. As it stands currently, it renders correctly after one of the corrective actions mentioned before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 1 hour ago, animats said: Woah! That's entirely server side. If that's correct, something is really wrong server side. Are you sure? I've been visiting the busiest regions today, and not seeing any fails. That situation happened for me a month or so back. I don't remember where though. I just remember that when I TP'd out and back, I could not walk the same path because there was suddenly a building wall there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnnabelleApocalypse Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 (edited) I have noticed this a few times over the last few months. I also noticed that if I spin my camera 360 degrees, sometimes the missing items will magically pop back in. Also noticed recently that textures have become suuuper, painfully slow to load when logging in or teleporting. Edited November 28, 2022 by AnnabelleApocalypse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maitimo Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 10 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said: No. At least for me, the problem occurs when teleporting to a different region, not to another spot in the same region. And no, toggling wireframe doesn't make the missing things appear. (I occasionally get the problem you are describing, and CTRL+SHIFT+R does fix it. But the missing objects are REALLY missing, it's a different issue. I'm seeing the same issue with both situations; both in-region and out-of-region teleports. Repeating the teleport (going back and returning again) seems to fix it, so the objects aren't actually missing, but the usual trick of selecting where the object should be isn't helping this time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritSparrow Skydancer Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 I use a Mac laptop lately and latest firestorm viewer and I to have been having issues like this. Particularly at stores the vendors do not show up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindal Kidd Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 1 hour ago, LittleSparrow Skydancer said: Particularly at stores the vendors do not show up. Yes, THIS! This is where I most often notice this issue. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katherine Heartsong Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 I've been finding TPing really "janky" lately myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 When it happens in the future, I'm going to take some screen shots and grab the viewer logs to save. Hoping that if I grab data with the objects missing and then grab the info again when the objects show after TPing away and back, maybe some sort of pattern will emerge. Or at the very least, maybe I'll manage to get enough data such that the issue can be better debugged by folks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 The next Premium level will probably promise "less missing objects"! 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cunomar Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 In firestorm hit the world tab , scroll down to improve graphics speed . I randomly picked 10 fps though my laptop is running 50 or 60fps and no need for more experimentation because im happy with the result . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resi Pfeffer Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 22 hours ago, LittleSparrow Skydancer said: I use a Mac laptop lately and latest firestorm viewer and I to have been having issues like this. Particularly at stores the vendors do not show up. For me, some vending displays appear and vanish depending on the distance of my cam. The closer i get, the more likely some of them vanish. Lets call it negative or anti LOD Avatars also take a lot more time to load than before the performance update. I see clouds for minutes, and then the whole avatar appears. At least i dont have to look at ripped body parts that way. And since quite a while (way before the performance update) i suffer from clothes just not rezzing on my body. While my friends already can see my newly added piece of fashion, it just wont rez for me for minutes, and if it does, it will take another minute to snap in place. Contrary to that, a lot of times i was able to teleport to a crowded club, and everything including the avatars got displayed within 30 seconds. So i probably cant blame my router or ISP for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Nightingale Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 @Resi Pfeffer Funny you should say that about the anti LOD... I had that happen a week ago when I was making something. As my camera approached the object, it would vanish at the point it should be switching to highest LOD. Couldn't even select it; as if it really didn't exist. Did it persistently on several objects. No (for those going to point out the obvious) I hadn't messed up my LOD models. The models were fine. After swearing for half an hour, rerezzing and reuploading my model several times, I relogged and everything went back to normal. I can't help feeling all of these things are somehow linked to the new, 'improved' code. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PheebyKatz Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 I had a disappearing objects issue yesterday. Found out I had accidentally toggled "disable textures" in my Rendering section of the developer menu in Firestorm, and so sculpts weren't showing up. I know it's probably unrelated to anyone else's object disappearances, but I'm logging it here for future reference, in case it helps anyone. Interestingly, though, toggling Wireframe mode actually fixed it in part, just left glaring chunks of missing roadway, and some off-sim decor poofed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 The Simulator User Group meeting yesterday was mostly about this problem in its several forms, as Inara Pey reported. She highlighted a particularly encouraging quote from Rider Linden which I'll repeat here: Quote I'm fairly certain that the current vanishing object issue is in the interest list. I'm not sure what we changed that could have aggravated though. I've been seeing it pretty regularly for about a month now. That's highlighted below in a chat history transcript of everything loosely relevant from that meeting, as best I could extract it: Quote [2022/11/29 12:05] Joe Magarac (animats): And there's the "disappearing object" problem: https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/493562-anyone-seeing-objects-missing[2022/11/29 12:06] Joe Magarac (animats): Really bad Thanksgiving Day.[2022/11/29 12:08] Henri Beauchamp: @Joe: for missing objects, ALT-zooming out far,far away, beyond draw distance, staying a few seconds zoomed out, then getting back to normal FOV, normally triggers a new interest list request and makes objects reappear.[2022/11/29 12:08] Joe Magarac (animats): Others have said that.[2022/11/29 12:09] (whirly.fizzle): That works sometimes but not always[2022/11/29 12:09] Rider Linden: I've been seeing that issue as well.[2022/11/29 12:09] (whirly.fizzle): Toggling wireframe works sometimes but not always[2022/11/29 12:09] (whirly.fizzle): Sometimes nothing works.[2022/11/29 12:09] (whirly.fizzle): Except relog[2022/11/29 12:10] Joe Magarac (animats): The consensus on the missing object problem is that it got much worse with the "performance viewer". The missing objects are not editable.[2022/11/29 12:10] (whirly.fizzle): Has anyone been faffing with interest list stuff serverside?[2022/11/29 12:10] Qie Niangao: so it's a viewer problem? or the performance viewer uncovers an underlying problem with interest lists somehow?[2022/11/29 12:10] Rex Cronon: shouldn't crossing a sim border create a new interest list?[2022/11/29 12:10] Lucy daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): I miss being able to right click select stuff to cause it to show, on the performance code you can't do that anymore[2022/11/29 12:11] Henri Beauchamp: @WHirly: the Wireframe trick is doing thye same thing as the "refresh objects visibilty" found in some TPVs (mine got it), but it only works if your viewer did get the objects in the interest list, since it works around a race condition between viewer and server, and not missing list data[2022/11/29 12:12] (whirly.fizzle): Ahh thanks henri[2022/11/29 12:12] Joe Magarac (animats): Someone commented on the forums that the missing objects are not in Area Search.[2022/11/29 12:12] Henri Beauchamp: For missing list data, the zooming-beyond-DD works, but you must stay zoomed out long enough for objects to be pushed into the LLVOCache on disk, so that a new interest list request gets triggered when returning to normal FOV[2022/11/29 12:12] (whirly.fizzle): There's also this that can cause invisible objects https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-9439 - see last comments for why it happens (technically not a bug)[2022/11/29 12:13] Rider Linden: Area search is a Firestorm feature. My guess is that it can only show you the objects that the viewer knows about.[2022/11/29 12:13] (whirly.fizzle): That case crops up quite regularly actually[2022/11/29 12:14] Joe Magarac (animats): Right, but Area Search is a good way to tell what the viewer knows about, even if it's not showing it.[2022/11/29 12:14] Henri Beauchamp: @WHirly: that one is a viewer issue due to a limit in the node memory in spacial groups. Can be worked around by increasing RenderMaxNodeSize[2022/11/29 12:14] (whirly.fizzle): Yep[2022/11/29 12:15] (whirly.fizzle): That's in the comments at the bottom[2022/11/29 12:15] Henri Beauchamp: /me lolz @ comment at bottom. Well, that's wishful thinking, really...[2022/11/29 12:15] Rider Linden: I'm fairly certain that the current vanishing object issue is in the interest list.[2022/11/29 12:16] Rider Linden: I'm not sure what we changed that could have aggravated though. I've been seeing it pretty regularly for about a month now.[2022/11/29 12:16] (whirly.fizzle): Is there a way to tell if that's the case? Maybe examining the slc file for the region?[2022/11/29 12:17] Rex Cronon: is it the lat object in the interest list that vanishes?[2022/11/29 12:17] Niri Nebula: sometimes, objects with glow maps start like... fully glowing around me. Is that related?[2022/11/29 12:17] Rex Cronon: the last*[2022/11/29 12:17] (whirly.fizzle): That's just slow rendering I think, that's not new[2022/11/29 12:17] Henri Beauchamp: @Rider: there are three issues: one with node limit (the last we spoke about), another with a race condition between interest list receival and viewer pipeline refresh on login, TPs and sim crossing, and the third is a rather new "bug" (a few months ago) in which some objects are simply missing from the interest list (solved with zooming-far).[2022/11/29 12:17] NeoBokrug Elytis: The inverse us also true for the interest list. Objects that are not in view, but llDie() tend to hang around in a viewer.[2022/11/29 12:17] NeoBokrug Elytis: Not always, but often.[2022/11/29 12:18] Torric Rodas: what henri said... but whilst zoomed out, change your active group for a double whammy reset.. it also works on assets you have blacklisted, then removed, but fail to reappear[2022/11/29 12:18] (whirly.fizzle): Yeah there's JIRAs for that one[2022/11/29 12:19] (whirly.fizzle): Changing group tag forces object updates I think?[2022/11/29 12:19] Niri Nebula: whirly; i have to relog to fix it, the glowmaps would have loaded in and then after a while just... become fully glow. And it's inconsistent per object.[2022/11/29 12:19] (whirly.fizzle): Ahhh[2022/11/29 12:19] Rider Linden: Yes, That is a different issue. The object dies, but the simulator doesn't tell you because as far as it is concerned you don't know about it. However the viewer has kept it around ...[2022/11/29 12:19] Torric Rodas: yeah... and with the zoom out doing much the same thing, it absolutely forces a refresh[2022/11/29 12:20] Niri Nebula: but definitely not related to this, pardon the sidetrack.[2022/11/29 12:20] Henri Beauchamp: The interest list was an "interesting" idea to alleviate the load on viewers, but it is racy like Hell.[2022/11/29 12:20] Rider Linden: That's a strange side effect... changing groups?[2022/11/29 12:20] Niri Nebula: changing groups also fixes turning "only friends" off[2022/11/29 12:20] Niri Nebula: it's a fun one [2022/11/29 12:20] Torric Rodas: yes Rider, its worked that way for a long time. its a lil hack[2022/11/29 12:21] Niri Nebula: (because it has to rewrite the name tag it forces a render update somewhere?)[2022/11/29 12:21] Niri Nebula: that's my best guess.[2022/11/29 12:22] Henri Beauchamp: The changing group trick triggers some UDP messages sent by the viewer, and maybe one of them is triggering something server side that causes some objects to refresh... It is certainly the case for your attachments (since their group changes with your avatar's)...[2022/11/29 12:22] Torric Rodas: if you blacklist something here and take it off again and it doesn't reappear, try the wheeling back til the region is a dot, change active group and press esc twice.. and it will reappear[2022/11/29 12:22] (whirly.fizzle): Remember LL viewer doesn't have blacklist[2022/11/29 12:22] Torric Rodas: it doesn't?[2022/11/29 12:23] (whirly.fizzle): No[2022/11/29 12:23] Rider Linden: No.[2022/11/29 12:23] Lucy daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): @Torric, I made an HUD for that function[2022/11/29 12:23] Torric Rodas: oh is it on MP lucy?[2022/11/29 12:23] Lucy daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): moves my camera 2k away then back[2022/11/29 12:23] Rider Linden: I think I saw a feature request not long ago for that functionality in the Lab's viewer though.[2022/11/29 12:23] (whirly.fizzle): Lucy has lots of good free gadgets in her MP store[2022/11/29 12:23] Lucy daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): naw, thought about putting it on there[2022/11/29 12:23] Torric Rodas: oh please do... I love gadgets, especially ones that shouldn' work, but do[2022/11/29 12:24] Lucy daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): I use it to show people again if I forget to turn off show only friends[2022/11/29 12:24] Lucy daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): because FS won't render everyone again...[2022/11/29 12:25] Lucy daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): but it also shows things I temp derender[2022/11/29 12:25] (whirly.fizzle): TP out & back works too (for show friends only) or change group tag [2022/11/29 12:25] Henri Beauchamp: @Torric: the blacklist is a viewer-side trick: it basically skips all data sent by the server about objects in the black list, but then the server won't resend data when you just remove an object UUID from your viewer-side list, and you must trigger an interest list update in one way or another to get the object data resent. Some scripted objects which get their data refreshed following script actions (sound, particles, rotation, etc) might however reappear[2022/11/29 12:25] Lucy daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): @Whirls, yes, but now I don't have to do all that, heh[2022/11/29 12:26] Torric Rodas: yes henri... its similar to slipping into wireframe when you think your hair has gone awol, which is another neat trick[2022/11/29 12:26] Tapple Gao: /me learned about object blacklist in firestorm today[2022/11/29 12:26] Torric Rodas: wireframe is the ultimate in refreshing attachments[2022/11/29 12:26] (whirly.fizzle): Derender all the things![2022/11/29 12:26] Henri Beauchamp: @Rider: it would be nice to be able to request an interest list update for a given object, via a new cap: the viewer could then request data when it needs it and missed it somehow...[2022/11/29 12:27] Torric Rodas: how would the viewer know it was missing?[2022/11/29 12:27] Joe Magarac (animats): That, in fact, is the big problem in viewer/server relations.[2022/11/29 12:27] Henri Beauchamp: @Torric: it would work for the black list issue, since it knows the UUID of objects in it.[2022/11/29 12:27] Rider Linden: We do have an interest list cap. It would probably not be difficult to add that functionality to it.[2022/11/29 12:28] Torric Rodas: @henri ah! yes.. <twiddles imaginary mustache >[2022/11/29 12:29] Rider Linden: Can I get someone to write up a feature request for the interest list cap functionality?[2022/11/29 12:29] Henri Beauchamp: A "sync list" cap would be nice too: on request by the viewer, teh server send a list of all UUIDs it thinks the viewer should be rendering.[2022/11/29 12:29] Joe Magarac (animats): Is there a list of all the caps somewhere? I've been searching the sources.[2022/11/29 12:29] Henri Beauchamp: The viewer could then compare with its objects list and send a per-object (or group of object) list resync request for missing ones[2022/11/29 12:29] (whirly.fizzle): Henri can probably explain that JIRA the best [2022/11/29 12:30] Henri Beauchamp: @Joe: the list of caps is in LL's viewer indra/newview/llviewerregion.cpp[2022/11/29 12:31] (whirly.fizzle): Or develop -> Consoles -> Capability info to debug console. Dumps all the caps & URLS into the viewer log[2022/11/29 12:32] (whirly.fizzle): Quick way to check caps fail on a region[2022/11/29 12:32] Henri Beauchamp: @Whirly: only for caps in the current region, yes... But there may be more In that transcript I also highlighted a @Whirly Fizzlequote and jira link about a different kind of "missing object" problem—officially not a bug—that I think is the source of @Resi Pfeffer and @Rick Daylight's "anti-LOD" effect, above. (Interestingly, that one is aggravated by a higher-than-default setting for RenderVolumeLODFactor in case you needed another reason to ignore some mesh-importers' pleas to set that to a ridiculous 4.0. There's also a kind of workaround mentioned to temporarily raise the RenderMaxNodeSize debug setting. 3 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Nightingale Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 Whatever is causing this, it's getting truly ridiculous. This happened today... I have not changed anything in this build (or on my land) for a week, and this only started today. It's a typical example though of the 'missing things'. Before doing the below, I tried things like TPing around inside the region, toggling wireframe, clicking on the throne, pulling my camera far out and back... nothing helped. I went into my dungeon. My throne's seat was floating in mid air. My throne is a lot bigger than that, as befits my demonic status. See photo 1. I took a wireframe photo of it... photo 2. As you can see... only the throne seat is there. When I sat in the throne, a few more pieces showed up. (my camera view did not change). Photo 3. Still a lot missing. Photo 4 - a wireframe of the above. Still only the visible parts are in wireframe. Next I teleported out of the region. When I returned, it was nearly all there, but not quite. There was some animated fire missing. Photo 5. I did several more TPs and other things, the fire wouldn't come back. Finally I relogged. The throne was there in its entirety when I got back. Photo 6. Photo 1 Photo 2 Photo 3 Photo 4 Photo 5 Photo 6 - me looking rather dischuffed that my throne vanished. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emma Krokus Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 This always seems worse at Christmas time for me. And for some years... And what am I doing differently? Teleporting around lots of regions in quick succession, changing groups to get the advent gifts. It seems to be mesh and sculpties that don't render for me. Sometimes they will after some considerable time, maybe 5 minutes. Only "quicker" solution has been to relog - about once every 5 - 6 teleports. It's worse in certain places. Objects are not found in Area Search until relogging, zooming far out and back in doesn't help. I call it the Advent Bug... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Nightingale Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 (edited) I've also had another weird thing happen that might be related... I imported some mesh, two items linked together. Not huge, only about 10k tris in each High LOD. I rezzed and unlinked them. From that point, while I could see both parts, only one could be clicked on. It was as if the other did not exist, except visually. Trying to click on it clicked the thing behind it; I couldn't select it in any way, even by click-dragging a selection box around it. Nothing would make it usable until I TP'd out of the region and back again, when it behaved normally. That has happened now on several occasions. Mostly on the beta grid (which was why I paid it no mind two weeks ago when it first happened - just put it down to beta grid being beta grid) but it also happened in the main grid. As usual, it seems to happen only occasionally and randomly. Edited December 5, 2022 by Rick Daylight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmoe Whitfield Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 I have a ball in my living room, sat there for 2 hours before it popped into view, it would respond to the script, neither person could see it and then pop it was there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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