Firestorm Issues

[Emma Krokus]

Posting on behalf of a friend:

She is having major issues with getting logged out - she describes her picture as breaking up into coloured shapes. I'm posting her specs below hoping this may give clues on how things may be improved.

Thank you for letting me know your thoughts about this.

Emma  

Firestorm 6.6.3 (67470) Aug 27 2022 18:30:00 (64bit / SSE2) (Firestorm-Releasex64) with Havok support
CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 4600G with Radeon Graphics (3692.93 MHz)
Memory: 7556 MB
Concurrency: 12
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 11 64-bit (Build 22000.1219)
Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Graphics Card: AMD Radeon(TM) Graphics
Graphics Card Memory: 4033 MB

Windows Graphics Driver Version: 31.0.12016.4002
OpenGL Version: 4.6.0 Compatibility Profile Context 22.20.16.04.220811

RestrainedLove API: (disabled)
libcurl Version: libcurl/7.54.1 OpenSSL/1.1.1l zlib/1.2.11.zlib-ng nghttp2/1.40.0
J2C Decoder Version: KDU v8.2
Audio Driver Version: FMOD Studio 2.02.07
Dullahan: 1.12.3.202111032221
  CEF: 91.1.21+g9dd45fe+chromium-91.0.4472.114
  Chromium: 91.0.4472.114
LibVLC Version: 3.0.16
Voice Server Version: Not Connected
Settings mode: Firestorm
Viewer Skin: Firestorm (Grey)
Window size: 1680x979 px
Font Used: Deja Vu (96 dpi)
Font Size Adjustment: 0 pt
UI Scaling: 1
Draw distance: 128 m
Bandwidth: 500 kbit/s
LOD factor: 4
Render quality: Medium (3/7)
Advanced Lighting Model: No
Texture memory: Dynamic (512 MB min / 10% Cache / 10% VRAM)
Disk cache: Max size 2048.0 MB (100.0% used)
Built with MSVC version 1916
Packets Lost: 8/62,175 (0.0%)
November 25 2022 15:07:35 SLT

[Fritigern Gothly]

1 hour ago, Emma Krokus said:

she describes her picture as breaking up into coloured shapes

Tell her to clear her cache. The colored shapes are a clear sign of a corrupted cache.

As for the logging out, she may need to find a place with a lot less objects and see if that still happens because maybe she is running out of memory. I mean, she only has 7½ GB of system memory and that fills up really fast on SL and when full, can lead to freezes and crashes.

One more thing: I don't know what the current driver version for AMD graphics is but it may be worth updating those with the drivers downloaded from the AMD website (never use the ones that come with Windows because they suck and are outdated!)

Let me know how this ends!

[Emma Krokus]

14 minutes ago, Fritigern Gothly said:

Tell her to clear her cache. The colored shapes are a clear sign of a corrupted cache.

As for the logging out, she may need to find a place with a lot less objects and see if that still happens because maybe she is running out of memory. I mean, she only has 7½ GB of system memory and that fills up really fast on SL and when full, can lead to freezes and crashes.

One more thing: I don't know what the current driver version for AMD graphics is but it may be worth updating those with the drivers downloaded from the AMD website (never use the ones that come with Windows because they suck and are outdated!)

Let me know how this ends!

Hello Fritigern

Thank you for your reply...

I think she clears cache regularly...

She is in a place with a lot of objects. Would it help if those objects were spread out more - i.e. on different height levels on the region? 

I presume upgrading memory (putting in extra RAM) would help? 

How easy is it to download a driver from the AMD website? I have always used NVIDIA and GeForce Eperience to update my graphics driver, so I have no idea! and I am not sure she will either.

I will let you know of any progress.

Emma  

 

[Qie Niangao]

I think she can download the latest drivers at https://www.amd.com/en/support/apu/amd-ryzen-processors/amd-ryzen-5-4000-g-series-desktop-processors-radeon-graphics/amd

About being "in a place with a lot of objects", I'm a little concerned about the "LOD factor: 4" setting. It shouldn't be causing a "colored shapes" problem but it's bad news for rendering performance in a complex environment. Firestorm may have this setting somewhere deep in all those menus, but it's usually hidden in Debug Settings as "RenderVolumeLODFactor" which I generally set to 1.25. That 4.0 value is often recommended by creators who… really should know better.

If it were me, I'd download the Linden viewer and see if it's subject to the same problem. If not, then need to investigate Firestorm-specific help to see why that particular viewer has such a problem. More likely, though, it will happen with the Linden viewer too, which would be a pretty strong hint that it's something about the machine. (It could even be hardware; sometimes very weird rendering artifacts indicate problems with the graphics card memory, for example, or any number of other problems. First, though, drivers, then search for any known incompatibilities, and only then maybe hardware.)

[ETA: Ages ago, AMD graphics cards had a "colored triangles" problem whenever the "Enable OpenGL Vertex Buffer Objects" setting was checked in advanced/hardware graphics preferences. I can't imagine that's still the problem though.]

Edited November 26, 2022 by Qie Niangao

[Emma Krokus]

Thank you, Qie

The weblink tells me page not found at AMD, but I will scour the rest of the website to find the relevant information. and hopefully update drivers.

I'll suggest she reduce LOD and try the official viewer. Also for her to check the OpenGL setting just in case.

I appreciate your thoughts on this!

Emma

 

[Odaks]

1680x979 is a most unusual resolution setting. Does anybody know if this could be an issue?

[Emma Krokus]

4 minutes ago, Odaks said:

1680x979 is a most unusual resolution setting. Does anybody know if this could be an issue?

I really have no idea. That would be good to know.

What is a more common setting?

[Aishagain]

Replying to this thread as a totally non-technical ex- ATI (as they were then) user, I am familiar with the description of the graphics failure.

The fact that the AMD chip is using on-board graphics, which are routinely regarded as unsuitable for SL and the use of an object LOD factor of 4.00, which is quite inadvisable for even a strong discrete GPU, would most likely cause the saturation and subsequent corruption of the rendering (it did for me), resulting in either viewer crashes, forced logout and/or cache corruption.

The adoption of a lower LOD is strongly advised, say 2.50, not as low as 1.125, which I found utterly inadequate and the use of a reduced draw-distance (say no more than 64 or 96m, may prolong the time online before a relog to avoid the artefacts is essential.  I must assume the viewer restart clears volatile memory, to be honest I never did find out WHY it worked, just that it DID.  My ultimate solution was to replace that system with a low-end  desktop and on that I replaced the discrete but still feeble AMD gpu with a low end but still far better Nvidia gpu.

AMD support for OpenGL is now much improved but I suspect that that, combined with the barely adequate system RAM of 8GB and Firestorm's need for resource is at the heart of this issue.

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by Aishagain

[Odaks]

1 hour ago, Emma Krokus said:

What is a more common setting?

Almost anything but that! But if @Aishagainis correct, the resolution might be red herring.

The normal HD resolution in that range would be 1600 x 900 (HD+).

The old EGA sytems used a 1680 x 1050 resolution, which I think was named WSXGA+, but it's very unlikely that EGA was being used in this case.

 

[Emma Krokus]

1 hour ago, Aishagain said:

Replying to this thread as a totally non-technical ex- ATI (as they were then) user, I am familiar with the description of the graphics failure.

The fact that the AMD chip is using on-board graphics, which are routinely regarded as unsuitable for SL and the use of an object LOD factor of 4.00, which is quite inadvisable for even a strong discrete GPU, would most likely cause the saturation and subsequent corruption of the rendering (it did for me), resulting in either viewer crashes, forced logout and/or cache corruption.

The adoption of a lower LOD is strongly advised, say 2.50, not as low as 1.125, which I found utterly inadequate and the use of a reduced draw-distance (say no more than 64 or 96m, may prolong the time online before a relog to avoid the artefacts is essential.  I must assume the viewer restart clears volatile memory, to be honest I never did find out WHY it worked, just that it DID.  My ultimate solution was to replace that system with a low-end  desktop and on that I replaced the discrete but still feeble AMD gpu with a low end but still far better Nvidia gpu.

AMD support for OpenGL is now much improved but I suspect that that, combined with the barely adequate system RAM of 8GB and Firestorm's need for resource is at the heart of this issue.

 

Thanks, Aishagain - that's helpful to know.

I totally missed that this is onboard graphics... I know for myself that when I use the laptop (only in emergencies) I can only manage low graphics settings or will hardly be able to do anything much. So yeah... 

I've not had LOD issues myself (99 percent desktop user) so wasn't aware what a burden it would place on hardware.

Thank you for taking the time to write

 

[Emma Krokus]

36 minutes ago, Odaks said:

Almost anything but that! But if @Aishagainis correct, the resolution might be red herring.

The normal HD resolution in that range would be 1600 x 900 (HD+).

The old EGA sytems used a 1680 x 1050 resolution, which I think was named WSXGA+, but it's very unlikely that EGA was being used in this case.

 

Thanks, Odaks  

Let's see what happens if we avoid further strain on the poor machine by trying a different resolution setting. And well, if it's a red herring, it's a low effort to try.  

Edited November 26, 2022 by Emma Krokus
need reading lessons

[Odaks]

4 minutes ago, Emma Krokus said:

trying a different resolution setting

I guess it would be worth trying to find out what the manufacturer's recommendation for resolution was. 1680x979 might turn out to be the actual resolution required for the display screen, albeit an unusual one, and may well be on the list of selectable choices when setting up the display.

[Emma Krokus]

28 minutes ago, Odaks said:

I guess it would be worth trying to find out what the manufacturer's recommendation for resolution was. 1680x979 might turn out to be the actual resolution required for the display screen, albeit an unusual one, and may well be on the list of selectable choices when setting up the display.

Good point, thank you!  

[Qie Niangao]

I understood the reported "Window size: 1680x979 px" to be literally the window size, rather than the screen resolution. The screen resolution might be, say, standard 1080p HD (1920x1080), with a viewer window filling most but not all the screen. At least that's how I run SL.

@Aishagain makes a good point that most folks will likely be more comfortable using LOD factor such as 2.5 rather than my 1.25 default. It's a tradeoff about how near one must be to poorly made mesh to keep it from degrading into unrecognizable geometry. Anyway, we agree that 4 is very high. I also support the suggestion to run with the shortest tolerable draw depth to boost performance on these less-capable graphics configurations. Except when taking long-range photos, I'm typically at 96m myself, and I have a much more powerful dedicated graphics card.

[Emma Krokus]

3 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

I understood the reported "Window size: 1680x979 px" to be literally the window size, rather than the screen resolution. The screen resolution might be, say, standard 1080p HD (1920x1080), with a viewer window filling most but not all the screen. At least that's how I run SL.

@Aishagain makes a good point that most folks will likely be more comfortable using LOD factor such as 2.5 rather than my 1.25 default. It's a tradeoff about how near one must be to poorly made mesh to keep it from degrading into unrecognizable geometry. Anyway, we agree that 4 is very high. I also support the suggestion to run with the shortest tolerable draw depth to boost performance on these less-capable graphics configurations. Except when taking long-range photos, I'm typically at 96m myself, and I have a much more powerful dedicated graphics card.

Thanks, Qie, re the window size - l'll check that out with her.

I agree it's all about balancing SL with your system and what you're doing at the time. Typically, although my system is more powerful my draw distance is below 64 - because more is not needed in the places I most often go to.

Emma  

[Wulfie Reanimator]

I'll echo what Qie said -- the resolution is the size of the viewer window.

I would bet that their window is maximized the screen resolution is 1680x1050. (The Windows task bar is the reason for the missing height.) Most likely we're talking about a laptop, or a very old monitor.

[Emma Krokus]

30 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

I'll echo what Qie said -- the resolution is the size of the viewer window.

I would bet that their window is maximized the screen resolution is 1680x1050. (The Windows task bar is the reason for the missing height.) Most likely we're talking about a laptop, or a very old monitor.

@Wulfie Reanimator- thank you! I will verify that. 

@ Everyone!

She has since logged in via a newer laptop using SL official viewer with no issues, so unfortunately for this thread, no update on the other machine yet.

I will come back to let you all know as soon as there is more news on trying your suggestions for the other system.

Emma  

 

[Emma Krokus]

REPORT 

System now running without a problem on Firestorm and official SL viewer:

drivers updated

cache cleared

LOD set to 2.5

couldn't find screen resolution (I couldn't help as I have never used Firestorm)

Thank you to everyone in this thread for your help! My friend's sanity has been restored.

Emma