superpeeve Oh my Gawd! - Totally unOfficial Pet Peeve Thread.

[Gabriele Graves]

6 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   Absolutely, and not just vocal clues either - I can stress myself out to the point I trigger a panic attack if I have to talk to someone on the telephone, and I believe a large part of that is that I can't see the visual cues from facial expressions (and that, unlike a conference call where I can shut up and skulk in the backdrop, I'm being totally locked into having that conversation and can't mute myself to hide sighs, yawns, sneezes, etc.). 

   In text you do have the benefit of being able to re-read, and contemplate different angles before you conclude the demeanour behind the words.

I trained in customer support at one point and in that training we were told that 80% of communication is body language.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Gabriele Graves

[Rolig Loon]

6 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

I think that there has to be an allowance for written text too.  Detecting these things from text isn't as easy as with speech.  There are far more clues in the delivery from the spoke word.

That's a good point. Context makes a difference too. I tend to go overboard when I'm writing in an open forum, choosing words carefully so that people won't take them the wrong way. When I'm chatting among friends, I relax more. I use hyperbole and nuanced language because I'm less likely to be offending someone accidentally.  In RL, of course, I can rely on facial expressions and body language and I have vocal cues to go on too, so that's a completely different game.

[Luna Bliss]

With some types of humor, an actual part of the joke is to make people wonder, inititally, whether the joke teller is being serious or making a joke. This creates an element of surprise, which is a major component of humor.

Pet Peeve: Humor is fun, but can be the source of troubles in communication.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Luna Bliss

[Gabriele Graves]

12 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Interesting how different we are. I more distrust people I see very little bile from ever...I tend to think they're hiding something.

Pet Peeve:  How humans have a penchant for disguising themselves.

I prefer people to be their genuine selves and show it.  That means both good and bad.  Sanitised communication is banal.

[Love Zhaoying]

I've seen evidence / examples of what you're discussing, when a poster became apparently enraged by a simple joke. 

[Istelathis]

Poor Drax, he doesn't even know you guys are talking about him 😜

 

[Rolig Loon]

15 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Interesting how different we are. I more distrust people I see very little bile from ever...I tend to think they're hiding something.

Pet Peeve:  How humans have a penchant for disguising themselves.

That is interesting. I am reminded of a woman I knew in school who once told me that "everyone has evil inside.  I can't trust anyone who hides her evil side." That seemed to me like a sad, stressful way to go through life. My own version of self-delusion is to assume that people are good and honest unless they give me reason to suspect the opposite. I've known plenty of people who really are nasty and a few who are downright evil. On balance, though, they are the exceptions. I sleep better at night not worrying that there are monsters under the bed.

[Gabriele Graves]

People are complicated.  Good/Evil are very blunt terms to describe most.  I believe we are more a melting pot of different things all mixed together in a chaotic mix.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

7 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

That is interesting. I am reminded of a woman I knew in school who once told me that "everyone has evil inside.  I can't trust anyone who hides her evil side." That seemed to me like a sad, stressful way to go through life. My own version of self-delusion is to assume that people are good and honest unless they give me reason to suspect the opposite. I've known plenty of people who really are nasty and a few who are downright evil. On balance, though, they are the exceptions. I sleep better at night not worrying that there are monsters under the bed.

 

3 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

People are complicated.  Good/Evil are very blunt terms to describe most.  I believe we are more a melting pot of different things all mixed together in a chaotic mix.

I too believe that humans are "naturally" good -- in the sense that hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of years of cultural evolution have demonstrated that we recognize the value of community and connection. We have evidence that Neanderthals cared for the aged and the sick, something that in purely evolutionary terms makes no sense whatsoever. And, we have developed the ideas of "right and wrong," of ethics and morality, however we may sometimes distort these.

At the same time, of course we are all "mixed." Some of what is "bad" or "immoral" about us as individuals is undoubtedly hard-wired, but a great deal derives from social conditioning, our upbringing and experiences, etc.

I know that I have racist or homophobic impulses. Hell, I know that I am sexist and misogynist. Most of us, I suspect, are at some level or another: it would be almost impossible not to harbour such notions given the world in which we live.

True "goodness" or "morality," I think, consists not of eradicating these tendencies, which is likely impossible (and maybe even undesirable), but rather in recognizing and acknowledging their existence, and working hard not to give them voice or allow them to dictate how we think or what we do. Which is where critical thinking and critical self-awareness come into play.

I don't think "goodness" is a static quality. It comes into being when we actively struggle to be good, in spite of our own demons.

[Gabriele Graves]

I'll admit that I have difficulty with the idea that people are naturally good when being good requires such a struggle to achieve.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Gabriele Graves

[Love Zhaoying]

Peeve: Those who see things in just black and white, good and evil, right and wrong, male and female, love and hate, pleasure and pain, life and death, friend and foe.

[Garnet Psaltery]

5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Peeve: Those who see things in just black and white, good and evil, right and wrong, male and female, love and hate, pleasure and pain, life and death, friend and foe.

But ... if you're not alive and you're not dead, what are you?  

[Scylla Rhiadra]

4 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

I'll admit that I have difficulty with the idea that people are naturally good when being good requires such a struggle to achieve.

Well, yes. Which is one reason why I put "naturally" in scare quotes.

The other reason is that "goodness" is really an entirely abstract and utterly human conception -- or at least it is if you don't believe in a divine being. Hence the origin of terms like "humane."

I tend to think of "goodness" as being things that conduce to how well and harmoniously we live with other humans and within communities that are also geared towards that. I don't see it as an "ideal value," something carved on tablets or delivered in a book, but rather (particularly if I am being very cynical, maybe) a recognition of the evolutionary value of living well together.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Garnet Psaltery said:

what are you?

Yes, exactly! 

[Istelathis]

3 minutes ago, Garnet Psaltery said:

But ... if you're not alive and you're not dead, what are you?  

A red head? 

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Which is one reason why I put "naturally" in scare quotes.

I've got  your “Scare Quotes!”

^^ See "curly quotation marks" Alt+147, Alt+148 (had to look them up!)

Peeve: Them there quotes won't compile with code.

[Love Zhaoying]

17 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

21 minutes ago, Garnet Psaltery said:

But ... if you're not alive and you're not dead, what are you?  

A red head? 

There's a possibly-retired aspect of Disney's "Pirates of the Carribean" ride, where a group of pirates chant, "We wants the redhead!"

[Sid Nagy]

54 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

People are complicated.  Good/Evil are very blunt terms to describe most.  I believe we are more a melting pot of different things all mixed together in a chaotic mix.

People who supposedly only have a chocolate side are pronounced saints by the RC Church after they have died and the church knows for certain that they can no longer cause trouble afterall.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Sid Nagy
English, ugh...

[Gabriele Graves]

18 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Well, yes. Which is one reason why I put "naturally" in scare quotes.

Yes, I was aware of it but wanted to address that as a thing.

19 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

The other reason is that "goodness" is really an entirely abstract and utterly human conception -- or at least it is if you don't believe in a divine being. Hence the origin of terms like "humane."

I tend to think of "goodness" as being things that conduce to how well and harmoniously we live with other humans and within communities that are also geared towards that. I don't see it as an "ideal value," something carved on tablets or delivered in a book, but rather (particularly if I am being very cynical, maybe) a recognition of the evolutionary value of living well together.

I agree.  I try not to think in terms of good/bad/evil because as you have said these are abstract and fluid.  I like instead the idea of a life either in balance or out of balance determining the benefit/harm that is done to those around an individual or to themselves.

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, Rolig Loon said:

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

Interesting how different we are. I more distrust people I see very little bile from ever...I tend to think they're hiding something.

Pet Peeve:  How humans have a penchant for disguising themselves.

That is interesting. I am reminded of a woman I knew in school who once told me that "everyone has evil inside.  I can't trust anyone who hides her evil side." That seemed to me like a sad, stressful way to go through life. My own version of self-delusion is to assume that people are good and honest unless they give me reason to suspect the opposite. I've known plenty of people who really are nasty and a few who are downright evil. On balance, though, they are the exceptions. I sleep better at night not worrying that there are monsters under the bed.

Hmmm you seem to have made some bizarre assumptions from my post. I said:

 "I more distrust people I see very little bile from ever".

EVER being the crucial word here. This doesn't mean I think everybody is a monster....rather, if I don't see any type of negativity or meanness it can mean they're trying to please everyone, and also perhaps afraid of confrontation.  And so they are presenting a kind of false face. Not always, but I suspect that is the case.

I'm not offended by the "bile" (unless it goes too far, which would be subjective I'm sure) -- I more think many would express a bit more of it if we didn't fear others would hate us. (not talking about griefer types, obviously, whose main purpose for being seems to be to express bile and offend others).

Edited August 10, 2023 by Luna Bliss

[Istelathis]

24 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

There's a possibly-retired aspect of Disney's "Pirates of the Carribean" ride, where a group of pirates chant, "We wants the redhead!"

I had forgotten about that, I remember going on the ride and being completely oblivious to it and not thinking in terms of why they wanted the red head.  I had to look it up and come to the realization of why people found it offensive, I don't look at the world through a lens of sex and thought it had more to do with the trope of red headed step child made to do all of the chores. 

Poor red heads, they often are the recipients of jokes (meh, what do they care they don't have souls 😜)

Edited August 10, 2023 by Istelathis

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, Rolig Loon said:

everyone has evil inside

I do believe that. We deceive ourselves into not accepting we have this part of ourselves. We'd need to define "evil" a bit more though.  But the problem of 'denial' is great in humans -- this has been proven over and over scientifically.

I can be aware of this without expecting there are monsters around every corner however --  there's just humans who have trouble accepting a painful reality.

PET PEEVE:  People need to be more introspective.

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, Gabriele Graves said:

People are complicated.  Good/Evil are very blunt terms to describe most.  I believe we are more a melting pot of different things all mixed together in a chaotic mix.

I like Jung's way of describing this....our "shadow self".

[Gabriele Graves]

“Until we have met the monsters in ourselves, we keep trying to slay them in the outer world. And we find that we cannot. For all darkness in the world stems from darkness in the heart. And it is there that we must do our work.”

― Marianne Williamson, Everyday Grace

[Istelathis]

2 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

“Until we have met the monsters in ourselves, we keep trying to slay them in the outer world. And we find that we cannot. For all darkness in the world stems from darkness in the heart. And it is there that we must do our work.”

― Marianne Williamson, Everyday Grace

“Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.”