Is Costal Water community use or Private Property?

[Roary McGillivary]

So I am a Mermaid in SL approximately 70% of the time, And to get from one point to another of course I have to swim along the coast lines of the main continents. Here's the problem, Costal Land owners have allowed people to build out over the water like it is land, cluttering the water way, making it impossible to sail / navigate a boat, let alone a mermaid to swim through the area that is "over grown" with people using it as land parcels. SO here is my question. "Is coastal water private or community space?" I was trying to make my way along a coastal water way, when I came across such an area that was over grown with land like housing, and of course the ten second security Orb. that doesn't even allow me to get past before booting me clear across SL to my home location. I wish LL would do some thing and make coastal water protected space and not allow such trash to clutter the water ways. Such spaces with over reaching security orbs make it impossible for boating, flying or an aquatic to enjoy. Here is an image of the area, as you can see no way to go around. 

[Coffee Pancake]

Private land is private land, even when that land is underwater.

Privately owned land is not communality space, even when that land is coastal or underwater.

If you are able to pass through at all then that is at the land owners discretion.

You have no right of way or right of passage.

This is how land in SL functions by design. LL will not and can not force a private land holder to allow your passage, even if you're a mermaid, even if you're a mermaid in a boat.

[Persephone Emerald]

Yup. If it's privately owned land or water, the owners can pretty much do what they want with it, including making it impossible to enter or having a 0 second security orb.. 

Btw,  there are a few underwater teleporters hidden throughout Bellisseria that would be useful for mermaids. Some are in Fantasia. At least one is off the coast of the Chalets. The ones in the Log Home lakes go to the Newback Community Center though, so they wouldn't be good for a mermaid.

 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Persephone Emerald

[Solar Legion]

If a Security Device is capable of properly functioning/acting on you while you are there, it is a privately owned parcel - no matter where it is located.

Your ability to pass through said parcel is thus at the whim of the one paying for it.

[Lindal Kidd]

37 minutes ago, Roary McGillivary said:

I wish LL would do some thing and make coastal water protected space and not allow such trash to clutter the water ways. Such spaces with over reaching security orbs make it impossible for boating, flying or an aquatic to enjoy.

This is two separate issues.

If you right click the ground and choose About Land, you can see who the land belongs to. If it's not Linden Lab, then it's privately owned, and  the owner has every right to "clutter the water ways." Sorry about that!

Security orbs that reach into public areas (land that IS owned by LL) are another matter. You should try to deal with the orb's owner first...ask them politely to limit its effect to their own parcel. If they don't, you can Abuse Report it.

[Solar Legion]

4 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

This is two separate issues.

If you right click the ground and choose About Land, you can see who the land belongs to. If it's not Linden Lab, then it's privately owned, and  the owner has every right to "clutter the water ways." Sorry about that!

Security orbs that reach into public areas (land that IS owned by LL) are another matter. You should try to deal with the orb's owner first...ask them politely to limit its effect to their own parcel. If they don't, you can Abuse Report it.

The "effect" outside of a user's parcel is .... an irritating dialog box.

You cannot be ejected/TPed home on Linden Owned Land by a Security Device on another parcel.

(Simply making sure this is quite clear to those reading)

[Polenth Yue]

It's not about whether the space is land or water. It's whether it's protected land owned by the Lindens or private land owned by a resident. Places that are owned by the Lindens should not have resident objects sticking into them (that can be reported). Land owned by residents can have whatever they like.

As you've discovered, there are a fair number of coast water bits that don't connect with anything else, so you can't get through. The public coast doesn't go all the way around. I'd suggest heading to Bellisseria for open swimming. You can also navigate up to the Blake Sea from there, which is quite a journey.

[Akane Nacht]

Mainland isn't great for mermaiding. But there are plenty of private regions that have swimmable seas that welcome mermaids eg. Underwater | Second Life

Try those instead. Far less frustrating.

3 hours ago, NevaehHeartstrings said:

forming a peaceful protester group to help nudge the landowner to do the right thing

As a part time mermaid myself - nope don't try that. At best you'll get muted and banned from the parcel. I certainly would.

[diamond Marchant]

5 hours ago, Roary McGillivary said:

Costal Land owners have allowed people to build out over the water like it is land

1. This topic should be in the land section.

2. I am confident that the OP author understands the difference between Linden protected water and private parcels.

3. Encroachment on protected water remains an issue as of October 17, 2022. From personal experience, I can vouch that Governance sometimes addresses encroachment issues but not always.

4. While in protected water, if you encounter a spam dialog, an orb dialog (even if it can't eject you), or "offsim" objects (that are really on protected water) that appear to claim protected water as private (such as cliffs protecting a beach).... PLEASE AR it!

5. Dialogs are a nuisance to people in vehicles because your keyboard focus can go to the dialog box and you can lose control of your vehicle.

[belindacarson]

Short answer: land owned by LL is public

Privately owned land is not public land and it's owners can stop people passing through

 

[Persephone Emerald]

The LDPW have made an effort to landscape underwater in Bellisseria. Sometimes there are even hidden caves. Check out Piccard's Wharf. 

[Theresa Tennyson]

12 hours ago, Roary McGillivary said:

So I am a Mermaid in SL approximately 70% of the time, And to get from one point to another of course I have to swim along the coast lines of the main continents

 

Regardless of whether current policies are ideal or not, you don't "have" to do a blessed thing.

[Theresa Tennyson]

12 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

This is how land in SL functions by design. LL will not and can not force a private land holder to allow your passage, even if you're a mermaid, even if you're a mermaid in a boat.

"Will not"? Probably true.

"Can not"? False on a number of levels.

[Arielle Popstar]

Plenty of R/L precedents where one might own the land but zoning laws prevent an owner from blocking access along coastal waterways for boating and pedestrian traffic along the shoreline.

[Jennifer Boyle]

IMHO, there should be a strip of protected Linden water along all coastlines.

[Roary McGillivary]

19 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

The LDPW have made an effort to landscape underwater in Bellisseria. Sometimes there are even hidden caves. Check out Piccard's Wharf. 

<-- is The Owner of Bellisseria merpeople group, I know the Belli waters well. 

[Roary McGillivary]

On 10/18/2022 at 10:30 AM, Jennifer Boyle said:

IMHO, there should be a strip of protected Linden water along all coastlines.

I agree Jennifer, there should be no encroachment onto the water other than a dock for boats. Everyone complains about the "sky clutter" what about the clutter out along the coasts it is just as bad. 

 

[Marianne Little]

If coastal water is owned by others than Linden Lab, it is not communal or protected.

Those who own it, can do what they want with their land. Linden lab can make protected linden water regions around all continents, and connect all continents. They say it cost too much.

Would I be willing to cover that cost? Would you? Where do LL find the money? Will the mermaids of SL cover the cost of more protected land? The sailors of SL? 

If LL can't afford to make more regions of protected water, should they take the land along the coast from those who owns it? Or start to create rules about what they can or can't do? This would cause other Mainland owners to worry about what LL would seize next.

 

[belindacarson]

What amazes me is the sheer amount of people who think they have a right to go anywhere on the mainland 🙄

[Coffee Pancake]

.. and are willing to organize bullying campaigns or borderline grif people to cajole others into accepting their demands.

Having random people telling me, demanding of me, what I should be doing with my mainland is a big reason I got out of mainland.

 

[belindacarson]

32 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

.. and are willing to organize bullying campaigns or borderline grif people to cajole others into accepting their demands.

Having random people telling me, demanding of me, what I should be doing with my mainland is a big reason I got out of mainland.

 

That's why I set my orb to zero seconds.

 

The self entitled lot who cry in I'm to me get told to grow up, and in very politically incorrect terms. 🙂

[Love Zhaoying]

I am surprised how often this topic comes up! 

Maybe a proper response is to provide links to past threads on the same topic?

 

[Coffee Pancake]

13 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I am surprised how often this topic comes up! 

Maybe a proper response is to provide links to past threads on the same topic?

 

If we did that we wouldn't have anything to talk about.

[Love Zhaoying]

3 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

If we did that we wouldn't have anything to talk about.

Then, I'll add my two cents! 

If the coastline at the water is "Linden protected" land (not part of someone's parcel), then it is "Community Use".

If someone's parcel goes directly up to, or into the water, then it is "Private Property".

If the waterway itself is "Linden Protected", then it is "Community Use".

If the waterway itself is part of someone's parcel, the it is "Private Property".   Anyone with water-adjacent land that has terraforming capabilities, can make what LOOKS like "Coastal Water".  But if it is part of someone's parcel, it is not really "Community Use coastal water".

Any Linden Covenants override anything else that may be assumed.

Your Nautical Mileage May Vary. <= Is joke!

Edited October 21, 2022 by Love Zhaoying

[Quistess Alpha]

2 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

If the coastline at the water is "Linden protected" land (not part of someone's parcel), then it is "Community Use".

If someone's parcel goes directly up to, or into the water, then it is "Private Property".

If the waterway itself is "Linden Protected", then it is "Community Use".

What about if the water is on a region that doesn't exist? Maybe then it's "Community No-use"?