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Avatars not rezzing...appearance issue again?


Aishagain
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I have encountered a great many avatars not able to rez in the past 30 minutes, I myself did not rez to quite a few of them when I asked.  I wonder is there a problem?  I see nothing on the Status Page yet.

Edited by Aishagain
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Following the above comments and after a distinctly cloudy evening in SL a thought occurs  to me.  Is this phenomenon restricted to folk using the new Firestorm 6.6.3, or is it more general?

I have found that everyone rezzed eventually and subjectively the situation seemed to improve considerably after midnight my local time (BST).

My use of the default Linden viewer is restricted to occasional testing sessions and all my SL friends use the FS as well so I have no comparative data.  Does anyone reading this use it and can comment?

Edited by Aishagain
clarification
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When you fail to rez your own avatar, having a look at the viewer log file (or debug console, but it might scroll off screen too quickly when lengthy inventory error messages occur) would tell you why it happens...

For me it sometimes happens (like once every week or two weeks), that the AIS3 (an inventory operations protocol) service fails, in which case I simply switch AIS3 off (this is an available option in the Cool VL Viewer, which then falls back to old HTTP caps and UDP inventory operations) and rebake to solve the issue. If you see the same issue happening in your log but do not have a toggle for AIS3 in your viewer, relogging might also solve the issue.

Edited by Henri Beauchamp
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On 9/17/2022 at 2:10 PM, Aishagain said:

Following the above comments and after a distinctly cloudy evening in SL a thought occurs  to me.  Is this phenomenon restricted to folk using the new Firestorm 6.6.3, or is it more general?

I have found that everyone rezzed eventually and subjectively the situation seemed to improve considerably after midnight my local time (BST).

My use of the default Linden viewer is restricted to occasional testing sessions and all my SL friends use the FS as well so I have no comparative data.  Does anyone reading this use it and can comment?

It also occurred with previous version of Firestorm.

Entering busy event

I noticed more severe, if 40+ avatars around in busy clubs like a popular adult jazz club, same observations in other busy clubs, typical worse if 40+ avatars.

To reduce the problem I did as follows, set graphic to default, draw distance to 8 meter, when all avatars are rezzed around you at this distance, increase to 16 meters, repeat wait, increase to 32 meters - repeat depending on size of club and then set to your normal preferred graphic setting, in my case high, 128 meters, ALM on.

Some will still appear as deform avatar, but will eventual rezz after several minutes, worst case 25-30 minutes! If you ask the person, who appears deform, to use Refresh Attachments and Rebake Textures, they will appear normal quicker.

Be first or among first at busy event

Assisting in a very popular club with a swimming pool party, where 70-80 avatars are visiting in busy hours, I observed: If i came early - as first or only few staff members around, all visitors rezzed normally as they entered party, also when 40+, 70+, 80+. If you leave, you have the ´problem as described above.

 

To me, it looks like problems in the viewer code xor server side, where updates not handled correct.

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1 hour ago, Henri Beauchamp said:

Did you try with another viewer ?...

OK, tested with Linden Lab Viewer v6.6.4.575022 latest release and CoolVLViewer-1.30.0, default settings in both viewers, date 2022-09-18, around 1 PM SLT.

TP into in the busy adult jazz club, standing idle and waiting for avatars around to rezz.

Around 77 ppl in busy adult jazz club,  3:01 minutes for load of avatars, many still deform, still deform after 15 minutes.

Same result as with latest Firestorm release v6.6.3.67470. Only few seconds difference on load time of avatars in the different viewers.

*
System info:  i7-10700K 3.80 GHz, 32 GB RAM - GeForce RTX 3070 8 GB - Windows 10 64-bit (Build 19044.2006)

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The above comments by Rachel1206 confirmed what I already surmised that this change of rezzing speed is an unwonted side-effect of the changes that were made to the rendering code that gives the performance enhancement.

Now the question in my mind at least is:  What, if anything, are LL going to do about it and when?

Edited by Aishagain
spelling...I kan't spel
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Went at the same place as Rachel. With the Cool VL Viewer, everything rezzes for me in just one minute (the max bandwidth reached 350 Mbps, CPU utilization at 100% during rezzing). I was at 512m draw distance with all graphics to the max, excepted shadows (off). 50-60fps once everything rezzed. And that's not even accounting for the fact that the screen recorder degrades the rezzing performances: it eats at least a full CPU core among the 8 I got (it's shown in green in the CPU load indicator at the right of the task bar), that could otherwise be used by the viewer while rezzing. I even raised non-impostors from my 24 usual setting to to the max (65), at the end of the video...

There are indeed a few (4-5) avatars that do not show right, but nothing proves it is not because their user messed up their outfit...

Here is the video.

Conclusion: neither the viewer nor the servers are the issue... My guess is that you guys are having network issues. Poor WiFi link, perhaps ?  I'm on FTTH, with an Ethernet link between the ISP's router and my PC.

Edited by Henri Beauchamp
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3 minutes ago, Henri Beauchamp said:

Went at the same place as Rachel. With the Cool VL Viewer, everything rezzes for me in just one minute (the max bandwidth reached 350 Mbps, CPU utilization at 100% during rezzing). I was at 512m draw distance with all graphics to the max, excepted shadows (off). 50-60fps once everything rezzed. And that's not even accounting for the fact that the screen recorder degrades the rezzing performances: it eats at least a full CPU core among the 8 I got (it's shown in green in the CPU load indicator at the right of the task bar), that could otherwise be used by the viewer while rezzing. I even raised non-impostors from my 24 usual setting to to the max (65), at the end of the video...

There are indeed a few (4-5) avatars that do not show right, but nothing proves it is not because their user did not mess up their outfit...

Here is the video.

Conclusion: neither the viewer nor the servers are the issue... My guess is that you guys are having network issues. Poor WiFi link, perhaps ?  I'm on FTTH, with an Ethernet link between the ISP's router and my PC.

I see many deform avatars not rezzed during the whole of your video. For example end of video 2:10, the girl getting huged, the girl standing in front of them with, the girl near center of video at the bar.

We are not talking orange/cloud avatars, but avatars not being rezzed completly.

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Looking at Your video, Henri I see several "deformed" avatars, something I almost never see...the persistent Orange cloud may be due to the speed of my internet which is only FTTC (BT Infinity).  Clearly your hardware is driven harder by your viewer (not a bad thing if the gear can take it) but usually I see fully formed and dressed avs once they rez.

One other thing I see (corroborated by other FS users) is that avs behind me used to drop out of the viewer cache and if I turned to look at them after a minute or two they would have to rez again.  That is no longer the case, once rezzed they stay rezzed. My texture cache capacity is maxxed at ~10GB (9984MB) and remains c90% filled.  Rebooting the hardware makes no difference.

From my viewpoint the slow rez of some avatars is a nuisance but not a game-breaker, whereas the low FPS at clubs before was.  The time to rez of newly arrived avatars seems highly variable between users, some that rez slowly for me rez quickly for others and vice versa.

oh and I have always been hardwired to my router using a desktop PC not a laptop.

Edited by Aishagain
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7 hours ago, Rachel1206 said:

I see many deform avatars not rezzed during the whole of your video. For example end of video 2:10, the girl getting huged, the girl standing in front of them with, the girl near center of video at the bar.

Due to the limited quota on my (ISP's based) web server, I cannot make large videos, so I went for the essential, but I could have used the ”Reload” avatar function on these deformed avatars... Not a big deal, really.

Edited by Henri Beauchamp
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5 hours ago, Aishagain said:

Clearly your hardware is driven harder by your viewer (not a bad thing if the gear can take it)

The Cool VL Viewer makes the best use it can from the available cores and will load them all to rez faster (this can be changed however, thanks to settings such as the number of texture decode threads and/or GL image creation threads). I do not see why you would worry about ”gear able to take it” or not: computers are designed to work just fine and indefinitely under full load, and this full load lasts merely one minute in the viewer rezzing case...

5 hours ago, Aishagain said:

One other thing I see (corroborated by other FS users) is that avs behind me used to drop out of the viewer cache and if I turned to look at them after a minute or two they would have to rez again.

This is how the objects cache and interest list work: what is in your camera field of view (FOV) is sent to the viewer by the server in the form of an ”interest list”; what is not in this list ends up being dropped from the memory after a small delay (thus lowering its usage as well as alleviating the load on the CPU which got less objects and their associated textures to update each frame, and on the servers, which got less UDP object update messages to send to your viewer), and moved to the on-disk object cache.

When you turn around, the viewer sends its camera FOV to the sim server, which replies with a list of objects of interest and their ”version”: if the viewer already wrote them to its cache, it fetches them back from it to (re-)rez them, and if the cached object version does not match, it tells the sim server so that the latter sends an update to refresh the object data.

The Cool VL Viewer is a bit more ”generous” about the objects it keeps in memory, especially seen as LL's viewer (and all TPVs using its code) used to move all objects behind your avatar very fast to the cache and ”derez” them (this was due to a bug in how LL's code computed the proportion of ”behind avatar objects” to keep in relation with their memory usage: the max memory was actually a fixed (and totally bogus, by today's standards) setting... This got recently fixed).

5 hours ago, Aishagain said:

From my viewpoint the slow rez of some avatars is a nuisance but not a game-breaker, whereas the low FPS at clubs before was.

Well, I do not see any such issue, here, and I'm overseas...

Edited by Henri Beauchamp
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4 hours ago, Henri Beauchamp said:

... but I could have used the ”Reload” avatar function on these deformed avatars... Not a big deal, really.

But you did not - and you should not have to - it was nearly never a  a problem before, but now annoying. So something has changed - either server or viewer handling - or I suspect combination of the two. And it is a big deal, when like hosting event with 70+ avatars, where people come and go all the time - and it is a big deal for majority of users in 2022, who expect things working without such glitches.

And the the problem more clearly, when visiting busy sites in the busy hours of SL. For example around 12 PM GMT+1 (3AM SLT) no problems in general, why I suspect, it is server side and how updates are handled by viewers.

On connection: 100 Mbps fiber, no difference if cabled or using WiFi 6.0.

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On 9/19/2022 at 1:12 PM, Rachel1206 said:

But you did not - and you should not have to - it was nearly never a  a problem before, but now annoying

Once again, I did not because I did not want to make too big a video (quota constraints on the web server).

It has always been a problem, on login and TP, ever since rigged meshes have existed and allowed to override joint position (there is obviously a race condition at play).

Why do you think that Reload/Reset/Refresh avatar feature has been implemented years ago, in TPVs ?...

On 9/19/2022 at 1:12 PM, Rachel1206 said:

So something has changed - either server or viewer handling - or I suspect combination of the two.

What changed is that you can now enjoy places with 80 avatars around, when in the past, servers could not accept more than 40 avatars and your viewer would have slowed down to a crawl rendering them, already... Statistically, it is therefore normal to see more ”deformed” avatars on TPs or logins into such places.

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IMHO. I find this programming mindset deeply troubling. The viewer should handle everything correct - be it 2 avatars or 40, 80, 100.

This is clearly a bug that I'm sure will be fixed in the near future.

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