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A Thread - All About LOD


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21 hours ago, SarahKB7 Koskinen said:

Thankfully, most viewers now have Avatar Complexity settings in their preferences which allows the viewer user to decide whether these very high complex avatars can be fully rezzed or not.

Except it doesn't do exactly that of course. The viewer has no way of knowing which avatars are heavy to render and which aren't so it more or less picks some avatars at random to "jellydoll" out.

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45 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Frankly even a single user making this claim is ... irritating to me.

Must be difficult to live when you get irritated on such things and how people use their hardware.

Like I've said hardware is designed to run 24/7 at provided capability for its expected lifecycle and that cycle is always within warranty period. At least in my country it is. I've had GPUs failing a week or two before their 3 years warranty ran out and had them refunded completely. And like I've also said later, taking a good care of your hardware might prolong its lifespan a lot. I still have ancient 2500K machine as my home server running 24/7 since Sandy Bridge CPUs were out. That's over a decade.

52 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Now I may have missed some intent somewhere - I long ago learned that one should not put one's hardware under anything even close to what the above snippet claims as it is undue strain. Further irritating is the blame being placed on external/other factors in the same snippet with people also agreeing with that. Yes of course if one has inadequate cooling and such, it will lessen the life of your hardware ... just as running it under maximum capacity 24/7 will.

And that heavily depends on your intended use, how long you take between upgrades and, mostly importantly, budget. If you get new hardware once a decade and want to get the most of it, then not pushing it too hard is a very good idea. If you upgrade every 1-3 years anyway, then honestly it doesn't matter. CPUs and GPUs warranty where I live are 3 years, RAM is 5, PSUs between 3 and 5 depending on their rating, SSDs 1-3 depending on the brand. Unless you overvolt it beyong its specs, it won't fail before warranty runs out. And even if it does in a year, then you won a new gen hardware, because usually last gen one is not available already by then.

And again, if you get a capable hardware and want to use software (SL, games etc) on lowest settings to avoid pushing it to its actual capabilities, it's up to you. But no need to pretend it's how it was intended to be used either. Your money, your hardware and your choice if you do, of course, but it's like buying a car and driving it 5km/h, because it's "safer" and will prolong car's lifespan.

And yeah, if you think it's "overworking" it, then it's in your head and nowhere else.

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49 minutes ago, steeljane42 said:

it's like buying a car and driving it 5km/h, because it's "safer" and will prolong car's lifespan.

Not a bad analogy since the effect of continually running an engine at maximum rpm is not entirely dissimilar from what happens when you run your pc hardware at its maximum capacity 24/7.

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1 minute ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

Not a bad analogy since the effect of continually running an engine at maximum rpm is not entirely dissimilar from what happens when you run your pc hardware at its maximum capacity 24/7.

Meh, the "analogy" fell flat the second it was attempted as not a single word of any response even tried to claim anything remotely similar with regard to computer components.

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1 hour ago, steeljane42 said:

And again, if you get a capable hardware and want to use software (SL, games etc) on lowest settings to avoid pushing it to its actual capabilities, it's up to you. But no need to pretend it's how it was intended to be used either. Your money, your hardware and your choice if you do, of course, but it's like buying a car and driving it 5km/h, because it's "safer" and will prolong car's lifespan.

And yeah, if you think it's "overworking" it, then it's in your head and nowhere else.

How about driving your truck with an empty horse trailer attached to it all the time because, hey, you might find a horse? It could happen...

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2 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Meh, the "analogy" fell flat the second it was attempted as not a single word of any response even tried to claim anything remotely similar with regard to computer components.

I don't really see a dissimilarity.  Regardless of if it's a car or a pc or anything else if you continually push something to its capacity you will most likely shorten it's lifespan considerably.

However I'm merely making an observation as a mildly bemused bystander so I'm happy to yield the floor to your righteous indignation since I'm not particularly invested in whether other people abuse their possessions as long as they aren't abusing mine. :D

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Just now, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

I don't really see a dissimilarity.  Regardless of if it's a car or a pc or anything else if you continually push something to its capacity you will most likely shorten it's lifespan considerably.

However I'm merely making an observation as a mildly bemused bystander so I'm happy to yield the floor to your righteous indignation since I'm not particularly invested in whether other people abuse their possessions as long as they aren't abusing mine. :D

Heh, just pointing out that the attempted analogy was based on an absolute absurdity. Driving one's vehicle at such a slow speed is not even remotely similar to using a PC within operational parameters as opposed to continually pushing it to its limits..

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Just now, Theresa Tennyson said:

How about driving your truck with an empty horse trailer attached to it all the time because, hey, you might find a horse? It could happen...

Sure, not the best idea. But how about actually loading horses in your trailer since, you know, they are already there. If you choose to not pick them, it's on you.

Just like running SL and/or games on lowest settings pretty much. User's choice to "not find" extra settings and not utilize their hardware. Which I have no problem with, it's their SL and hardware. Might as well disable basic shaders, also an option. It'll lower hardware usage by a bit more too. But claiming that downgrading your SL/gaming experience by "saving" hardware and not actually utilizing it is silly in my opinion (which I don't ask anyone to agree with).

1 minute ago, Solar Legion said:

Heh, just pointing out that the attempted analogy was based on an absolute absurdity. Driving one's vehicle at such a slow speed is not even remotely similar to using a PC within operational parameters as opposed to continually pushing it to its limits..

Depends what do you see by hardware limits pushing. Provided operational specs are not its limits no matter if you want to believe they are. Overlocking past those is an actual pushing. Which I also do for decades, but while I do it, I'd never suggest that to someone as it actually will reduce hardware's lifespan. And in cases where user is not very experienced with OC they will most likely damage their hardware and lose warranty as well.

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Again, that's nice.

100% operation 24/7 is pushing to the limits.

Overclocking is an attempt to push past/surpass said limits and does indeed shorten the minimum life span. Bringing it up here is also attempting to place a tomato in with a basket of granite.

Enjoy having the floor.

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Just now, Solar Legion said:

Heh, just pointing out that the attempted analogy was based on an absolute absurdity. Driving one's vehicle at such a slow speed is not even remotely similar to using a PC within operational parameters as opposed to continually pushing it to its limits..

Absolutely, there's very little similarity between a combustion engine and electronics equipment and the speed of a vehicle is mostly irrelevant in comparison to the speed at which the engine is running but the basic premise that using something carefully and not overtaxing it is far preferable to running it at its maximum capacity remains the same.

When I said it wasn't a bad analogy I meant it from the perspective that it actually proves your point quite well. 😅

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1 minute ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

Absolutely, there's very little similarity between a combustion engine and electronics equipment and the speed of a vehicle is mostly irrelevant in comparison to the speed at which the engine is running but the basic premise that using something carefully and not overtaxing it is far preferable to running it at its maximum capacity remains the same.

When I said it wasn't a bad analogy I meant it from the perspective that it actually proves your point quite well. 😅

Noted and thank you.

Apologies as I do my best to take care of my things and react rather negatively to what looks like carelessness.

I suppose if one can actually afford to be such, they ought to be allowed to waste their money without being chastised for it.

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2 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Noted and thank you.

Apologies as I do my best to take care of my things and react rather negatively to what looks like carelessness.

I suppose if one can actually afford to be such, they ought to be allowed to waste their money without being chastised for it.

No apology necessary! :)

As I said I'm of the opinion that what others do with their possessions is entirely up to them however detrimental it may be but at the same time I do take exception to people trying to misrepresent those actions as completely harmless in order to try and convince others to follow their example.

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1 minute ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

No apology necessary! :)

As I said I'm of the opinion that what others do with their possessions is entirely up to them however detrimental it may be but at the same time I do take exception to people trying to misrepresent those actions as completely harmless in order to try and convince others to follow their example.

Oh same on that last.

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How the F did we get from a sensible discussion of LOD levels in objects, LOD settings in the viewer and how they interact to dramallama-ing about system capacity? Back in the day when I built out large data centers, a system was considered "at full capacity" if it typically ran at 80% load, bursting to 100% from time to time - you didnt want the service to crater during those bursts so you kept a little headroom. I've never seen the reason to treat my own electronics any more harshly than those I was paid a salary to attend their care and feeding. YMMV, You do you,  yadda yadda yadda

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17 minutes ago, Da5id Weatherwax said:

How the F did we get from a sensible discussion of LOD levels in objects, LOD settings in the viewer and how they interact to dramallama-ing about system capacity?

Simply put, even a complex explanation of LOD models in objects and LOD settings in the viewer would only take up about a half a page (a page at most if you allow for questions/dissenting opinions) but this thread is 4 pages long so folks have to do something to fill up all that extra space! :P 

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5 hours ago, Da5id Weatherwax said:

How the F did we get from a sensible discussion of LOD levels in objects, LOD settings in the viewer and how they interact to dramallama-ing about system capacity? Back in the day when I built out large data centers, a system was considered "at full capacity" if it typically ran at 80% load, bursting to 100% from time to time - you didnt want the service to crater during those bursts so you kept a little headroom. I've never seen the reason to treat my own electronics any more harshly than those I was paid a salary to attend their care and feeding. YMMV, You do you,  yadda yadda yadda

Because Karens and attention wh*res started running rampant, as it seems to be happening to a lot of threads in General Discussion areas...

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I used to have my viewer at max LOD but after my entry level 2 gig video card burned up and sent for repairs, I'm rocking the lowest LOD. I don't mind if my cowboy hat looks messy from 2 meters away. I have my computer open and I physically feel my video card if it's too hot to touch I start decreasing settings. I'm pretty used to seeing people out in the world grey and jittery looking (unless i'm among friends i'll briefly splurge). (feeling video card now nice and warm).

If models look good at lowest LOD setting that is because when they were uploaded all levels of level of detail data reflect the highest levels' data. The uploader has some slight quirk right now where if you use the "use lod from above" drop down it does not change the data, you have to physically change the data manually by typing in the highest fields data in the medium, low, and lowest fields.. Not sure what that's about. 

It's frustrating shopping for clothing sometimes, because sometimes the demos have level of detail, higher than the actual product, which is strange to me. Nothing like buying a new suit and having it garble out from few meters away, especially when paying premium prices. Not sure what that's about I guess some creators can't afford to upload at higest lod or they can but choose the worthy enough to attach them. 

Maybe future option to fix all that craziness. 

What if we could take our lower quality LOD products and have options (paid of course) to make them better LOD. Refine? I would pay to make my cowboy hat stronger LOD. I would do that for most things I love.

re·fine

[rəˈfīn]

VERB

remove impurities or unwanted elements from (a substance), typically as part of an industrial process:

"sugar was refined by boiling it in huge iron vats"

synonyms:

purify · clarify · clear · cleanse · strain · sift · filter · rarefy · distill · concentrate · process · treat · rectify

improve (something) by making small changes, in particular make (an idea, theory, or method) more subtle and accurate:

"ease of access to computers has refined analysis and presentation of data"

synonyms:

improve · perfect · polish (up) · hone · temper · fine-tune · elaborate · touch up · revise · edit · copyedit · complete · finish · finish off · put the final/finishing touches to · crown · consummate

It would work because every product in SL has the highest level of detail it can be refined from. It would be like uploading the products we already purchased but at higher level of detail. 

We're supposed to look at art from far away not up close, but here it's upclose and not far? Strange to me. I don't think that was sl's doing it was their consumers conforming to creator's status quo processes. 

I think sl or someone is working on something like this but not sure what exactly it is. We can't force creators to make the products they sell be highest LOD but we can, if we have option, make those products we purchase better. 

Edited by Paulsian
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On 9/15/2022 at 6:05 AM, EliseAnne85 said:

And, especially what are the most important things to tell a newbie about LOD?

Anyway...  none of this is anything you would tell a newbie about LOD.  This thread is just a place for people to measure their...  swords.  Yeah, swords.  I said it.

LOD - the level of detail your personal computer set up renders items at certain distances?  If it is too low, then items lose detail and turn into weird triangles when you get far enough away?  Is that right?

Your LOD setting only impacts your view.  No one sees SL the same way even with the same settings because your computer hardware and/or software also impact the LOD?  Is that right?

Increasing your LOD setting may or may not impact your computers performance in rendering your view.  It also may or may not heat your computer up and cause issues.  None of this is right, right?

When buying items for your avatar or home you can test items at your preferred LOD, but others with different LOD settings might not see your great outfit or decor items.  Right?

LOD may or may not impact your fps, but draw distance definitely does...  Maybe.   I may have missed if this was answered in all the sword measuring.

If you want to buy an item that a creator says needs to be viewed at LOD 4, but you use LOD 2 for yourself, don't buy that item. Right?

 

 

and finally, no one else cares what your LOD is set to.  Each individual sets their own preferred setting and enjoys their SL in their own way.  They do not care about your view, only their own. Right!!!

 

 

Edited by Cinnamon Mistwood
added another sentence, fixed a mispelled word, considered a comma
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I blame it all on the new forum policy.  What else is there to get indignant over except unimportant SL things?  But hey, at least it basically stayed on topic (LOD) even if it veered off of the main question about what to tell noobs.  I'd give it a C+.

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29 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I blame it all on the new forum policy.  What else is there to get indignant over except unimportant SL things?  But hey, at least it basically stayed on topic (LOD) even if it veered off of the main question about what to tell noobs.  I'd give it a C+.

To be fair, it didn't veer all that far, it just turned from a discussion on what to tell noobs about LODs into an argument about what not to tell them. 🤣

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