CasperTech Acquisition Discussion

[Gingir Ghoststar]

I think this is great. I remember when the owner of HippoVend disappeared and folks were left hanging with vendors and rental service that no longer worked. There were many people that were quite upset when that happened. This should help prevent that from being an issue in the future.

I'm cautiously optimistic to see how this pans out. I really like the idea of making the task of listing vendor to MP more streamlined. There are parts of the MP and Caspervend that merged together would make such a wonderful experience.

 

[EnCore Mayne]

having waded through a number of the responses it's hopelessly obvious as to just what is gonna happen. some people have danced around the idea without actually stating its inevitability. does anyone remember paying any fees before LL purchased Xstreet? [my mistake. Xstreet's fee schedule amounted to the majority of merchants were charged a 5% sales commission. thx Sphynx] and how well did their competitors fair once LL's version morphed into the only way to sell anything?

mark my words:  LL wants control over EVERY monetary transaction in SL. there won't be a Linden$ bought or sold that they won't extract their portion.

and, for the moderators removing negative critiques (Lindal?) these statements shouldn't be construed as evil or nefarious on LL's part. it's actually been long overdue that this step hasn't happened yet.

the move might hurt, but in the long run, it's a good thing for the financial viability of the platform.

Edited September 15, 2022 by EnCore Mayne
corrected facts unknown to my memory

[Matchbook Monday]

Isn't that something.

[Sphynx Soleil]

33 minutes ago, EnCore Mayne said:

...does anyone remember paying any fees before LL purchased Xstreet?

Like the commission they charged on anything over 10L before the LL buyout?

[Silent Mistwalker]

23 hours ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:

I was a hippo user and I 100% tell you, it was a mass omg what do we do,  andy sold the company, the guy that bought it left it to basically run without support or help and then blamed rackspace for letting his server die, he had zero backups for anything, so yeah it was a mess.

It's why I haven't used a vendor system like Hippo or Casper or JVEN since Fox took over Hippo. I've been waiting for LL to come out with their own system ever since.

[Honey Puddles]

 

19 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

It's why I haven't used a vendor system like Hippo or Casper or JVEN since Fox took over Hippo. I've been waiting for LL to come out with their own system ever since.

Well if you haven't experienced it as a user, let me just say as someone who used all three:

As Hippo was to JEVN, so Casper was to Hippo.

LL have acquired a top-of-the-line product/platform here. Their quest to 'build a better inworld vendor system' just got a huge leg up with this acquisition.. and they got a parcel rental system to boot. If they had to buy something to get a head-start, in my opinion, they chose wisely.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Honey Puddles

[Sammy Huntsman]

9 hours ago, Harry333 Allen said:

yah nail on the head us based LL is already taxing europeans according to their country of origin wich is 21% here

LL is not taxing because they want to, they are taxing because they have to by EU law. So instead of being mad at LL be mad at the EU. 

[Silent Mistwalker]

11 minutes ago, Honey Puddles said:

 

Well if you haven't experienced it as a user, let me just say as someone who used all three:

As Hippo was to JEVN, so Casper was to Hippo.

LL have acquired a top-of-the-line product/platform here. Their quest to 'build a better inworld vendor system' just got a huge leg up with this acquisition.. and they got a parcel rental system to boot. If they had to buy something to get a head-start, in my opinion, they chose wisely.

So? None of that has anything to do with what I said. If I were to have voiced an opinion, it would have been in favor of the acquisition as long as none of the mistakes from the past are repeated. My preference has been and always will be that LL develops their own system. I'm also very cognizant of the financial savings of purchasing an already established system. 

 I didn't fall of a turnip truck yesterday.

[Methi1975]

I think this is great news! 

Casper Warden provided very good support, if something didn't work, it didn't take long for everything to work again and nothing was lost during this time.
I think that with the help of LL there are more possibilities to improve the system, an important point is, for example, that the store credit function of caspervend vendors is not fully developed.
If a customer wants to buy something and only has 199 L$ store credit, but the item costs 200 L$ it is not possible that the remaining amount is debited from the L$ account balance and the customer has to wait through further purchases until he has enough and then with to buy store credits.

 

for me it would also be legitimate for LL to implement a sales fee of, for example, 2%. every company must have an income in order not to go bankrupt.

[Jaimy Hancroft]

1 hour ago, Honey Puddles said:

 

Well if you haven't experienced it as a user, let me just say as someone who used all three:

As Hippo was to JEVN, so Casper was to Hippo.

LL have acquired a top-of-the-line product/platform here. Their quest to 'build a better inworld vendor system' just got a huge leg up with this acquisition.. and they got a parcel rental system to boot. If they had to buy something to get a head-start, in my opinion, they chose wisely.

Well said Puddles 🙂
There will always be negative ppl but it's costs of running a bussiness and I don't mind paying extra if this means in the future it will even rid of scripts and it will be integrated into the prim you rezz, select your item , boom, done, less lag.. or better yet list on casper : auto list on MP.. the possibilities are endless now, I can't wait to see what happens.

[Sammy Huntsman]

1 minute ago, Jaimy Hancroft said:

Well said Puddles 🙂
There will always be negative ppl but it's costs of running a bussiness and I don't mind paying extra if this means in the future it will even rid of scripts and it will be integrated into the prim you rezz, select your item , boom, done, less lag.. or better yet list on casper : auto list on MP.. the possibilities are endless now, I can't wait to see what happens.

I don't mind to pay a little extra, if that means I get a better service. 

[UnilWay SpiritWeaver]

LL's acquisition of xStreet and converting it into Marketplace "was a fiasco until it wasn't." The wasn't didn't really take all that long either.

There might be some rough moments in the short term. Most of those will likely be integration bugs and not by intent, but I suspect this too will turn out for the best.

 

[Rowan Amore]

1 hour ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

This really isn't a negative critique, is is basically slandering LL. You are just posting misinformation, to scare people into thinking the sky is falling. No they are not coming for every monetary transaction in SL, again critiquing would be saying hey great idea, but I am weary about this. Due to past incidents. You are just spouting conspiracy theories and misinformation. 

Every Linden bought or sold is already hit with a fee from LL.  Tilia takes a second hit if you choose to cash out.  It's nothing new.  That they may choose to charge a fee for caspervend transactions sometime in the future isn't really a stretch.  Nor slander.  

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

Every Linden bought or sold is already hit with a fee from LL.  Tilia takes a second hit if you choose to cash out.  It's nothing new.  That they may choose to charge a fee for caspervend transactions sometime in the future isn't really a stretch.  Nor slander.  

I mean it is ultimately LLs choice if they do or not. They are a business not a charity after all. 

[Mikal Brinner]

Having read many of the comments, there aren't a lot of answers from LL about what they will be doing other than something was done and nothing will change "for now".  The rest is user speculation or at worst blind agreements that yes, we'll pay more by transaction.  Then there is an undercurrent of a lack of trust of LL and I'm not sure why that is other than people may have an inherent lack of trust of corporations, which LL is one.

The value add of Casper is that it worked most of the time, there was good customer services, there weren't transaction fees but essentially a set up fee and that too was fairly reasonable. 

I do have concerns which went unanswered and then were deleted and then restored by LL regarding content moderation/control of casper product listings.  It isn't that I distrust LL in this arena or think that LL should not moderate content which can get them sued, I just want to know what the process is if an accuasation is being made.  It matters going forward and I will conced that LL has not set policy on this issue.  I don't use brands on my products but I know those who do.  If they will be policed, how will product listings be examined?  

The usage fee, folks do not give up your business to an added fee pretending that LL is poor.  They aren't poor.  They are running a business, that's true but so am I and so are a lot of people.  Adding costs can lose customers, however nominal the cost.   If there is a discussion of a usage or transaction fee, current users of Casper should have a seat at the table.  A nominal fee of 2% for your 100L weekly rental isn't a big deal but I sell products which cost 20 times that amount, it can be a big deal that either I pass on to my customers or just eat.  We're not talking about a lot of money, it is pocket change, i agree.  Still, it is the principle and if there is a fee, what more are we getting from use of Casper and how will LL seek the counsel of users when determining the fee/rate?  Again, I doubt these conversations have resulted in policy positions as of yet but I'm sure the thought has crossed their mind.

Regarding the seeming generalized lack of trust some have of the Lindens, I don't think it is really warranted or fair.  I've been around 14 years or so and I've seen some bizarre decisions, hamhandedness in application and well, Sansar.  Generally, they've done a pretty good job considering.  I think it is fair for us as users/customers to seek and expect transparency in business affairs.  I think it is fair for LL to seek opinion, experience and feedback on how their policy decisions will impact their customers.

[Sammy Huntsman]

5 minutes ago, Mikal Brinner said:

Having read many of the comments, there aren't a lot of answers from LL about what they will be doing other than something was done and nothing will change "for now".  The rest is user speculation or at worst blind agreements that yes, we'll pay more by transaction.  Then there is an undercurrent of a lack of trust of LL and I'm not sure why that is other than people may have an inherent lack of trust of corporations, which LL is one.

The value add of Casper is that it worked most of the time, there was good customer services, there weren't transaction fees but essentially a set up fee and that too was fairly reasonable. 

I do have concerns which went unanswered and then were deleted and then restored by LL regarding content moderation/control of casper product listings.  It isn't that I distrust LL in this arena or think that LL should not moderate content which can get them sued, I just want to know what the process is if an accuasation is being made.  It matters going forward and I will conced that LL has not set policy on this issue.  I don't use brands on my products but I know those who do.  If they will be policed, how will product listings be examined?  

The usage fee, folks do not give up your business to an added fee pretending that LL is poor.  They aren't poor.  They are running a business, that's true but so am I and so are a lot of people.  Adding costs can lose customers, however nominal the cost.   If there is a discussion of a usage or transaction fee, current users of Casper should have a seat at the table.  A nominal fee of 2% for your 100L weekly rental isn't a big deal but I sell products which cost 20 times that amount, it can be a big deal that either I pass on to my customers or just eat.  We're not talking about a lot of money, it is pocket change, i agree.  Still, it is the principle and if there is a fee, what more are we getting from use of Casper and how will LL seek the counsel of users when determining the fee/rate?  Again, I doubt these conversations have resulted in policy positions as of yet but I'm sure the thought has crossed their mind.

Regarding the seeming generalized lack of trust some have of the Lindens, I don't think it is really warranted or fair.  I've been around 14 years or so and I've seen some bizarre decisions, hamhandedness in application and well, Sansar.  Generally, they've done a pretty good job considering.  I think it is fair for us as users/customers to seek and expect transparency in business affairs.  I think it is fair for LL to seek opinion, experience and feedback on how their policy decisions will impact their customers.

I think the whole thing that bugs me, is that people are getting their knickers in a knot and basically making post after post, fear-mongering people into thinking that the worst is going to come. When right now LL is only worried about a smooth and steady integration of Caspertech into their system. That being said, if they charge a small fee to each transaction. Say 10%, which they said nothing is gonna change for now. Then that is fine, they need some way to get back the money they spent on acquiring the SL side of Caspertech. 

[itoibo]

On 9/14/2022 at 2:14 PM, Les White said:

Questions.

Does this acquisition mean LL will force a monopoly with vending systems as you did with linden exchange back in the day?

Will 3rd parties be allowed to directly compete with Casper Vend system? Hint : you better say yes.

 

How are third parties going to compete with a system that is integrated into the MP and viewer?

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, itoibo said:

How are third parties going to compete with a system that is integrated into the MP and viewer?

Easy by doing what they always do and sticking to their business model. I mean it won't really affect other vendor systems. 

[itoibo]

3 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

Easy by doing what they always do and sticking to their business model. I mean it won't really affect other vendor systems. 

That was rhetorical question for Les.

There is no way that user vending systems can seriously compete with a system owned by LL.

It likely WILL put any current competitors out of business. There are pros and cons to that, that I will leave to each person to consider. I can see them myself and, while I think this will be a good thing for users, it will be bad for the idea that makers are all on even ground and able to create SL, as opposed to being administered by SL, and of course, as some have suggested, it means LL can basically name their price. I am not here to argue that this is good or evil or fight about it.

[itoibo]

One thing is certain. If you were planning to try to compete with CasperTech for a piece of the vendor/redelivery market, forget it. That opportunity is closed. 

 

To Casper, I am glad you worked out a deal with LL. You have run an amazing product in SL, and will always be an SL god among makers.

[Cate Foulsbane]

15 hours ago, TimKoul said:

I am so confused.

I've tried reading as much as possible but it's overwhelming. Bottom line for me, how does this affect the average shopper, the average NON-business person?

 

[Mikal Brinner]

44 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

That being said, if they charge a small fee to each transaction. Say 10%, which they said nothing is gonna change for now. Then that is fine, they need some way to get back the money they spent on acquiring the SL side of Caspertech. 

Why is 10% the magic number?  10% looks a lot different to creators who sell shoes for 250L versus those who sell vehicles at 2000L or buildings at 5000L.  The cost to LL isn't any different but some are carrying a greater burden than others, per transaction. I'm not arguing with you about rates necessarily but it is about being fair per transaction rather than income tax.   

For premium users, perhaps a differential or scaled LL fee or  no fee/rate at all.  Make it an enticement for people to pay in to a higher level of membership.  I'm not saying that LL should not get a return on their investment but if transactions fee Casper, along comes LL charging a fee is similar to making a toll road out of a road users already paid to use.  This is not the only issue and I agree, people are stoking worries which are not apparent.  Still, a cost of doing business impacts business.

My position, to be clear, is for current Casper users to have a seat at the table when discussing policies going forward and while LL is focused on a smooth integration, that is not the only topic of consideration for the future.  When bringing people to the table, people who sell low cost items and those who sell higher cost items should be heard .

[itoibo]

13 minutes ago, Cate Foulsbane said:

I've tried reading as much as possible but it's overwhelming. Bottom line for me, how does this affect the average shopper, the average NON-business person?

 

For the average shopper, I think this is very good news. Control of a large network of vending and redelivery systems are in the hands of LL now, no longer controlled by a single person or entity that could shut it down any day for various reasons. 

[itoibo]

For sellers like myself, I hope it means easy integration so I could just rez a box that is linked to my MP products so I do not even have to put anything in the box. 

We already have access to the alert notification system, and can put things inworld that talk to our servers, but now this could be a very simple process for everyone.

[Arielle Popstar]

10 hours ago, Tanja Byron said:

Never, really never use your account password on another website than LL´s website or in your viewer^^

 

10 hours ago, Casper Warden said:

Yes, very much this

And just in general, don't use the same password on multiple sites. If one of them gets compromised, all of your accounts do.

I didn't use the same password to register as my LL one. I simply forgot that I had previously registered there and when presented with the request for a password, assumed that due to the purchase, the site now belongs to LL and was looking for my normal S/L login info.